Noman

Does your mechanic skill help in any way with mines? I don't mean the pylons but the round mines with the waving feelers on top. With a high enough skill can you deactivate them?

2 hours ago, BenS said:

Mechanics 4?! You're braver than I am. I always get high Mechanics on my characters b/c the completist in me wants to open/bypass every locked X that the game throws at me. It also opens up parts of maps that would otherwise be dealt w/ through combat; this way I see most everything, and can maximize xp by doing both the combat and the non-combat areas (and Leadership is quite helpful too). Not trying to tell you how to play your game, just surprised you're rolling w/ low Mechanics.

 

Anyway, on topic, it looks like these particular power spirals have unfortunate results when a PC tries to shut them down, as they require quite high Mechanics to do it w/out them exploding. Probably a hint that we shouldn't be powering them down (unlike the power spirals that might be affecting something nasty in the nearby vicinity). But like I said, you didn't miss out on anything important, I don't think.

Thanks.  But my low mechanic skill gives me more points to put in my shaper creations and make the battles easier. How do you survive otherwise?

5 hours ago, Iguana-on-a-stick said:

If you lack mechanics skill, a power spiral explodes. Otherwise it's just shut down. Those particular spirals require something like 14 mechanics, so you probably lacked the skill and broke the machine.

I have a mechanic of 4 and don't remember ever having a spiral explode. They either deactivated or nothing.  I just tried some spirals in the core mine area and they just deactivated or did nothing.  I think I would remember if the d*** things exploded on me.

11 hours ago, BenS said:

I think I figured it out. When you power them down, they actually explode for dmg, and then look like...blue piles of junk. You must have powered them down by mistake, unless your game has a super weird bug wherein they were destroyed before you even got there.

 

EDIT: FWIW, you didn't miss out on much from that particular dispenser. The other 2 are better, but require more rough crystals.

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I believe the Northern Mines dispenser, for 20 crystals, gives you weaponry, like a Shaped Blade, while the Western Mines dispenser, for...fewer than that, can't remember exactly...gives you wands.

 

Thanks loads. Really appreciate your help.

Sorry, I have no idea how to post a screen shot. However I think I described it pretty well. I didn't mention that the two piles of junk were somewhat blue like the spirals but I don't see how I could have turned them into that.

16 minutes ago, BenS said:

If you can take a screen shot and post it here, I'd be very interested to see what shows up for you in that room. If I'm understanding you, you don't even see the power spirals at all (e.g., deactivated). As for the screen shot, I'm on a Mac and always forget how to do 1 in Steam, but you're likely on a PC so it's probably easier.

Yes, you understand me very well. There were never any spirals there either activated or deactivated.  I'll see if I can figure out how to post a screen shot here. I'm not very good at that kind of thing. I have the game on GOG not Steam. Thanks for your interest.

12 minutes ago, BenS said:

I just went there. To be clear: Eastern Mines. The dispenser is at the north/central part of the map. There are 2 power spirals in the same small room w/ the machine, which takes 5 rough crystals at a go. You move slightly to the right, hit the switch...and you should end up w/ a Blast Crystal at your feet. If you don't "see" it on the map, just hit "g" for "get", and you'll see it. You can keep doing this. If the 2 power spirals in a span of 10 seconds don't produce a "hummm" type sound, then you might have powered them off by mistake.

Interesting. There are two small unidentfiable piles of junk on the floor of that room. They were there when I first entered the room. Maybe they were supposed to be power spirals but they are only the same type of junk I've seen many times elsewhere.

10 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

There should be a blue power spiral in the room with the machine or the control lever.

There isn't. I'm looking at it right now. There is only the machine, switch, and a chest. I'm certain there never was a power spiral there. A bug?

8 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

The power source is the power spiral and on it has a humming word and off it has pfft.

Where is this power spiral? I have seen many before but none here in this area. (Eastern Mines)

14 minutes ago, TriRodent said:

 

DId you turn off the nearby power source?  Because that would shut down the machine permanently

I just looked around and there is no power source in this area. Now the machine says that I have deposited the required crystals and it says that there is nothing else I can do. Yes, I see that the switch and the machine are in different rooms but the switch is dead. If there is a power source here I can't find it.

The machine said that there was a tray to hold 5 crystals so I put in what I had, whatever that was, but no message came up saying that I didn't have enough crystals. My only option then was to ask for the crystals back to which the machine said no. Nothing on the floor or in the nearby chest. I went back later with more crystals but there was no response from the machine.  Seems to be a dead end.

18 minutes ago, BenS said:

Good lord, I wish I had known you were heading to the mines in the other thread about pylons you posted in! I would have told you something similar, which was, you did not need to destroy every pylon. Not even close. I don't know what class you're playing (or your level), but w/ a little experimentation and Essence Shield(s) and moving in combat mode, you can get through the Eastern Mines w/ only experiencing a handful (at most) of those pylons. The ones in the core are even easier to deal w/, as you can get to the Servant Mind and...let's see if I know how to do spoilers here...

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have it shut down the Core's defenses. In addition, it can be talked into shutting down the pylons in 1 of the 3 other Mine areas, so you can go to each--one at a time, talking to the Mind ahead of time--and explore w/out those damn pylons ruining your day

.

 

As for the crystal dispensers, is there a chest nearby wherein your "prize" is deposited? I'm a little fuzzy on that, but each (there are 3 total) dispenser tells you (I think) how many rough crystals it needs for a transaction. They also deliver different items, so, common sense, do a quick save and see if you like what it gives.

Thanks for the tip. I'm in the core now so I'll try to run the gauntlet in combat mode.

27 minutes ago, Iguana-on-a-stick said:

The machines provide items. Look at the ground, items should drop there after you activate the machine.

 

The pylons can be disabled without combat. Talk to the brain. You may need leadership for that.

 

Either way, you don't need to do every area in the game if you don't want to. And you can kill the Sholai if you wish. No need to listen to them if you don't want to.

Thank you. No the machine didn't drop anything. It just kept my crystals. By the time I found the brain most of the pylons had been destroyed. Killing the Sholai is easier said than done.  They are tougher than anybody in the game so far. I'm always reluctant to skip an area for fear that I might miss something important Also if an area is red you can't transport there on the map without going through red areas connected to it. So far I like this game better than any other SpiderWeb game I have played so I will keep on.

Just went to the MIne Core--MORE pylons.  I'm tired of pylons. Where is that airshock spell that is supposed to work so well? Also tired of those Sholai that won't let me pass they seem everywhere.  A little frustrated!

Thanks. I thought it might have something to do with that machine in the north that just took my crystals and did nothing else. Was that machine and the switch supposed to do something? Maybe I did something in the wrong order?

I have done everything in the Eastern Mines and it won't turn green. Every pylon is dead and I can find nothing else to do. I'm sure that I have not missed anything. What to do?

On 3/16/2021 at 1:14 AM, googoogjoob said:

As a Shaper, the best way to deal with pylons is to use Airshock to kill them from outside their attack range (since Airshock has AoE that can stretch beyond their range). You can try to kill them with Creations- pylons are weak to simple physical damage- but they do a lot of damage, and explode when they die, so this isn't really optimal.

 

Note, though, that you're not obligated to visit every zone on the map, and Mutagen makes it harder to see and do everything in one playthrough than it was in the original. Pylons in Mutagen are designed to be a huge pain (or at least a tedious problem) unless you're focusing on Stealth.

I don't have the airshock spell yet so I have been using 4 creations with lots of healing to destroy the pylons. That is really boring. Where is that airshock spell?

Thanks, I'll go back later.

I have used all my living tools and got maybe  half way through. Is there anything worth coming back here later when I have more tools? So far I have found nothing. No spoilers, just an honest answer. Thank you.

Most RPG's use a skill called locksmith. You put points into this skill as you want. The more points invested the better your chance of success. But you always have a chance no matter how small. With living tools your chances are either zero or 100%.

1 hour ago, Iguana-on-a-stick said:

I like the living tool system in this game quite a lot.

 

There are plenty of non-tool reasons to invest in mechanics (disarming mines, using machines, disabling spirals and whatnot) so a character with heavy mechanics who opens everything does not feel robbed even if he has 50 tools left at the end of the game.

 

Meanwhile, a character who does not want to invest heavily in mechanics does not get that annoying feeling you have in Avernum where you HAVE to pass by all the locked stuff and will never even know what you are missing out on. Rather, you have to make decisions. Do I unlock this door with 10 tools and get an Artila cannister? Or do I decide this does not matter to me enough and move on?

 

You dislike this as a "guessing game" which is fair. But I like it much better than the frustration of not even being able to know what's behind a lock if your skill is one point too low.

I was not aware that mechanics was good for anything except using living tools. That's interesting, thank you.

Just a personal opinion but I do not  like the idea of living tools in the game.  I would much prefer a locksmith skill where you always have a chance regardless of how small to unlock something. Living tools just occupy another space in your already limited inventory and require that you go around collecting them in the hope that you will make the right guess as to when to use them. I know you can use the save-load method on each lock but this seems to me to nulify living tools and locks entirely. To me this is not fun just frustrating. Just a small gripe on an otherwise admirable game.

35 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

Cure Affliction is 1 essence, 3 energy, and 6 action points Combine with Heal and it should help with those flighty creations.

Thank you, I just tried it. Worked fine for 1 rogue at a time. 2 rogues gets very difficult and 3 is hopeless. I thought the shaper was supposed to be the easiest of the 3 characters.

14 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

You need to do the east corner of Ellhrah's Keep to get Cure Affliction to reverse mental effects.

OK, Thanks. I never finished that place because of all the locked doors and the guard. I'll go back and do it. But I'll bet that the Cure Affliction cost a lot of essence which I don't have much of. Maybe I should get rid of one of my blue buddies . Sad.

7 minutes ago, mikeprichard said:

If you're on Normal difficulty and below, you should be able to do plenty of stuff around Pentil and continue on the level raising curve that way without many problems. Sorry I can't remember very specific areas that might be good for you right now, but that general plan worked fine for me.

Thanks. I just remembered why I have trouble in Pentil. My blue cryo are both cowards. They run away and leave me to die. HA!

1 minute ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

The terrain view is oriented diagonally, and therefore so are the compass directions.

I wonder why the terrain view is oriented diagonally. Just curious.