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Paul Collins

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Everything posted by Paul Collins

  1. So what do people think? What's the score? I say...87-92 percent, relatively speaking and adjusted to circumstance. Thoughts?
  2. I agree with Olle. My conception of the the Hands (of Avadon) is that they, by becoming Hands (or Hearts or Eyes), express a general wish to shed a former identity in order to be part of the ideal that is Avadon. Take, for example Heart Miranda and the Librarian (2 of the 3 wives). One lost a loved one in service to Avadon and the other had to give up her companions in order to live. Yet despite these pasts they both serve loyally. I find the choice of a blank slate protagonist much more apt in this context than in Geneforge, where shaping (aka the source of player power/skill) was a rare enough skill in the world to practically demand, for storytelling purposes, a more fleshed out explanation of one's character (aka G5, G4 somewat in terms of how canister use molded a character out of your player by virtue of reactions to certain encounters). And even then, it was relatively tame compared to, say, a game like DA2.
  3. maybe a non-servile, non-drakon creation faction. I always felt that lower tier creations were the whipping boy
  4. Aight. Perhaps I just wanted an ally in what I felt was the losing argument for the diversification of gameplay experience, not because it was easy or right, but because it offered choice. As I mentioned prior, Jeff's games are valuable in both large and small ways. And a small way was the manner in which a character's personal charisma was treated. I can't accept that the loss of leadership is a good thing, ever. And so can't others, silent or not. That is all I ask, an understanding of a perspective informed by years of good games (Arcanum,Bloodlines, Torment, Geneforge)
  5. Whether you have a thankless job is not the concern of the average poster. This "discussion" is entirely the product of the extra weight you carry as a moderator, aka, making sure certain people tow the line that is mild to medium criticism. Yah? The fact that you disagree with my statements and/or dislike my delivery (which contained no expletives and only general irony)only illustrates to anyone with a brain that you wield gags rather than constructive instruments. So please, no lectures.
  6. Well I'm glad you revel in seemingly arbitrary judgment. Hooray for meaningless rules! Otherwise, Lilith, maybe you should appreciate your ability to say what you want and what you mean
  7. Err...Isn"t it subjectve to assume that some speech (caps lock, forceful irony aka the "condescending" first sentence) is somehow inappropriate? I'm merely expressing what I think is a valid and frankly consistent viewpoint. Let's not make straw figures out of valid argumentation. Especially when not one poster has agreed with me. Who is being invalidated here?
  8. Uh, what? The barrier is the time investment involved in learing how tennis works, aka an investment. Just because there isn't a direct relation between the time spent (minutes, hours) in real life learning about a certain activity/pasttime doesn't mean that there isn't an analogue to investing (through level-up point investment) in a certain skill. Once again, do you not deny yourself a certain amount of time (possibly spent on a plethora of other activity) in order to learn the rules of tennis. That there is finality to a choice in rpgs (games do not have the lasting length of human life) does not diminish the value of investment. And there's even a respec mechanic!
  9. I'm confused. I could swear that a independent games forum would be a bastion of appreciation for non-mainstream RPG gameplay mechanics. Instead I find people lamenting the fact that dialogue and lockpicking skills exist. WHY DO YOU PEOPLE EVEN PLAY RPGS? WHY DO YOU EXPECT THAT AN RPG SHOULD ONLY EXTEND SO FAR AS YOUR PERSONAL PREFERENCE (I don't like to pick locks, it shouldn't exist)? RPGs revolve around choice. That anyone would laud the removal of gameplay mechanics, that work (and have worked in previous SW games) is disgusting.
  10. I like the idea that games should be tailored to the most uninvolved members of the gaming community. Maybe we should simplify tennis since people who don't usually watch tennis or are too busy to watch tennis don't understand the rules. Well? Do you see a difference? Are you proud of the fact that you demand simplification based on your limited investment?
  11. Anyway, to digress, my point in writing the review, aside from to review the game, was to express my appreciation for Vogel's games as they are always fantastic, in small ways and large. My only hope is that, aside from keeping his head after two decades (?) of gamemaking, he will maintain the distinction between convenience (auto-heal, arguably, the post G3 battle system) and depth (ripping out leadership/lockpicking because players want/deserve to have everything in the first playthrough, replayability much?). But I guess the customer's always right.
  12. I'm going on a hunger strike until leadership is patched into Avadon
  13. Conversation/Dialogue skills are not Win buttons generally if ever, that's absurd. Maybe in Planescape but how many games like Planescape exist? No one disagrees that if a skill, any skill, isn't balanced, it will become a "constraint" insofar as it obliges a player to invest in it if he/she wishes to maximize the gameplay experience(and this even assumes that many/most players have a compulsion to min/max). But as Fnord/others point out, there is a rewarding factor to investment (or lack thereof) in conversation skills when done properly that need not interfere or detract from the baseline dialogue the player is offered. Once again, how is it any different to say, assuming the dialogue skill is balanced, that the lockpicking skill shouldn't exist because it obliges a player to invest in it if they want to open locked doors. Why have locked doors in the game? Because it's realistic that people lock up goods, even in a fantasy world. Just as it's realistic that inhabitants of the world may require convincing in order to, say, give out extra awards or withdraw from combat. And it's nothing but a simplification to assume your character is born with such charisma, especially considering his/her years of experience training as a Hand, aka a soldier, and not a Heart.
  14. I stand by my statement that the expectation that a player need be a practical god ingame and experience everything regardless of investment (should you have certain combat skills regardless of investment, aren't you missing out on gameplay experience by not having them?) is wrong. Unless the game is a pure ego pump, aka most ACTION rpgs, players shouldn't act petulant and expect everything at once. Good games require investment.
  15. I agree with you generally. BUT, we're not talking about a walking skill. Given that in RL, most conflict is solved through diplomacy/speech and by means of skilled diplomats, I don't find it a stretch to expect such a proficiency out of a facsimile fantasy world. Once again, should or do you expect to have your conversations to have preset outcomes in real life? And frankly it's simply not true that your manner of approach (charisma, diplomacy, aggression, cheekiness) has anything to do with the outcome of dialogue in Avadon. Certain choices (Ex: whether to help the Wayfarer) are cleary telegraphed and for dialogue not to be at least partially stat-based is to deny the value of RPGs that you yourself reference. As in Planescape, considered by most and rightfully so the best crpg ever. I don't understand the interference. There is a dichotomy. Another game, Arcanum, also make stat-based dialogue meaningful. You misunderstand your personal use of a game mechanic (and the tradeoffs it entails) with its intrinsic value. Point being, anything less than an investment in a character's ability to be diplomatic is a simplification of gameplay experience. I would trade a hundred *walking skills* to be able to appreciate my character in a more nuanced way
  16. To Olle, I appreciate the viewpoint that a skill could be incorporated into the overall player experience of being a Hand and making alliances of a certain sort throughout the overall game. BUT, I don't think rpgs should boil down to a mentality where everything can be had in one playthrough. THE POINT of any rpg, as many might tell you from pnp and more recent crpg past, is to play a role. Why should every character be a diplomat, that being the natural outcome of static dialogue choice? It's a matter of play style. The fact that you may not desire it does not inhibit others from imagining an Avadon universe wherein they can talk certain foes out of combat, or into certain behavior, by virtue of investment. The real divide, as I see it, is between those who care about playing a certain role and those who don't. Regardless, I don't and frankly can't find it aspirational, from a design perspective, that certain diplomatic ends would require no investment. It takes away, it does not give... Unless you think an rpg character should be proficient without reason, in which case, don't level your characters and just hope they perform well in combat.
  17. In answer to your question, it does. So far, I have made many choices that fill me with doubt as to whether I've made a "good" choice (See Wayfarer meetings). And it was great and highly engaging. The question is, shouldn't some players, who prefer a certain style of play above and beyond battle + normal conversation options, be allowed to customize their character as a true diplomat. I don't think it is a case of sacrificing one style of play (a normal character with meaningful dialogue choices) with another (a character you roleplay, as in invest time and skill in, as a diplomat. Once again, the sorceress battle in jherl deeps is a perfect example...Even a subsidiary battle pending a successful dialogue check would have been nice (another ogre chief pops up/she leaves monsters to test your mettle, see if you're worth the investment)
  18. A mid game review of Avadon (At the return to Dhorl Stead Mission) *MILD SPOILERS* CONS - no individual party member movement outside of the combat engine, makes pre-battle positioning a little clunky. - As mentioned, preset entrance points to each map, making some quest locations (and their respective turn ins) slightly tedious to reach.. See the mage tower in the Kva Lands, Runner Faiga's place in the Dhorl Stead (Although this may be understandable given the number of exit points, which do provide a convenience, on each map - No leadership skill!!! Probably the most personal disappointment, given how well executed this game mechanic was in the Geneforge series (most notably, in my eyes, in G4 and G5). Whether in a grand way (modifying reputation among factions, adding allies in certain battles) or small (additional quest rewards, calming creations to avoid smaller encounters), the leadership skill provided diversification of the gameplay experience and a viable diplomatic path. In Avadon, there have been moments where I felt that a more charismatic character could and should have talked his/her way out of an encounter (see sorceress fight in the Jherl Deeps), but instead any decision to bribe/be paid off in lieu of combat are static. Also I feel the leadership skill could have been used to great effect as applied to companion relationships. It's hard in some ways to become emotionally invested in companions when I am practically guaranteed their eventual loyalty so long as I pick preset and fairly obvious dialogue responses (and perform their loyalty quests). This being regardless of the possible charisma of my main character. Sorry, rant. - Little main character customization. As far as I can tell, there are only two differences that one's choice of main character makes. One, that only a sorceress or shadowwalker can pick certain locks in Avadon for low cost in terms of lockpicks (See chest near anvil in basement workshop). And two, that the choice of main character can be used to set party member preferences. Don't like the blademaster companion's dialogue? Choose a blademaster (assuming most people will play the game needing a tank). For the main character customization to boil down to this is understandable if one looks at Avadon as a merger of Geneforge (dialogue is mostly directed toward the main character as an individual) and Avernum (no individual party member focus) gameplay mechanics. But, for in terms of roleplaying that extends beyond NPC conversations (which are unaffected by skill) and perhaps for my ego as a player, I would have preferred something more. - No general lockpicking skill. Mentioned above... Maybe a rare scarab(s) could grant cross-class skills such as this (lockpicking currently confined to sorceress/shadowwalker) - Moar (sic) scarabs! A verrry minor observation...but given that they provided the most cross-class character tailoring, I would have liked more. Not overpowered, DLC, stroke/hold the ego type, just more scarabs for certain practical uses. - Blackbeard, not Redbeard (completely subjective) - Overabundance of wands. I found myself lugging around, on torment difficulty, a number of wands (fire, ice, venom) that, a few missions in, were rather ineffectual (either missed or did very little damage). It was probably meant for me to use the wands at earlier levels..but I feel a better mechanic would have been to make wands both more scarce and more powerful. Again, more personal than anything, and a product of a first time playthrough (not knowing what items would come in handy on torment). In fact, I probably should have sold them. - Dragons. Why did it have to be dragons? This is, again, a minor point but after the amazingly original Geneforge universe I felt less so the inclusion of and more so a certain focus on dragons was a step backward in terms of storytelling. Enough games of far more dubious quality (DA, DA2, Divinity 2) focus on this massive fantasy trope. - Updating Avadon quartermaster inventory. The quartermaster of Avadon, the seat of Pact power, has a more limited inventory than Goldcrag? Unrealistic, he should have an updated inventory as missions progress (see more scarabs) NEUTRAL - Automap/quest compass...Actually not a con, since it only seems to exist early on in tutorial format (in Avadon, for understandable reasons, since people live there and know the layout, and in the tutorial dungeon, again, for obvious reasons). So a neutral choice, if not a positive for new gamers. - Combat... The only negative I can muster so far is that certain skills seemed overpowered (Shaman spirit claw), for wrong or right reason. This is an area where I feel more discussion, and perhaps tweaking, is to be had. I simply don't know and so, again, this is a neutral statement. However, there is a certain sort of auto heal mechanic exploit whereby a single character can escape (most) combat encounters, auto heal/rez the group, and then wait out skill cooldowns. Effecting, in most cases (there are some encounters that bar a return to Avadon and full vitality restoration, irrespective of vitality potions availability), the spamming of potentially overpowered skills. So, again, a neutral absent more player discussion. - Difficulty. Probably the most contentious aspect of the indie RPG (I'm looking at you, RPGCodex). I've been playing on Torment, aka the highest level of difficulty in Vogel games and the difficulty I assume most people who care about difficulty will be playing at. So far, it pans out like this: -- Tutorial (Avadon dungeons, first mission) is easy. Perhaps too easy. You will probably not use a health potion until the final battle of the first mission, although you might use wands/blessing crystals (short term buffs)/a speed potion? (haste, the question mark is for perhaps). But don't despair!! --Later missions/quests become progressively more difficult, both inside and outside Avadon. For each mission, there is at least one quest that is quite difficult for one's level (See book steal quest, widow of bones, sorceress shade?! being perhaps the most difficult thus far). Given that the game is linear and one must finish a mission to unlock new maps, it seems that the main quests have been made somewhat less difficult than those in Avernum 6 and G5 (the most balanced and thus most/more difficult). A byproduct, perhaps a preexisting one in Vogel games, of the linearity is that the player can skip difficult missions and return later to tackle them at higher level. So, while the main quests are less difficult than before, the side quest difficulty is entirely a product of choice, a sliding scale of difficulty depending on one's, let's say, guts. The good news? Less hp whittling. What makes the difficulty in most cases is the encounter design (very good, as usual) and the use of status ailments (stunning, dazing, ensnaring which prevents key movement, acid/poison, charming, etc...). Although, It is arguable whether acid/poison status ailments should, even given the best character build, only last 1-2 turns *it shouldn't ever*. PROS Writing/Companions: A Vogel game (brand loyalty) seems to always guarantee quality writing and Avadon is no exception. Whether it is the several paragraphs of writing used to describe various new maps that the player enters or the way in which Jeff substantiates both important AND unimportant, stock NPCs (See New Vegas NCR soldier dialogue, a few sentences compared to at least a paragraph for many stock NPCs). And this is not a case of quantity over quantity. There is little to no cheeky, gamebreaking bad dialogue (I WANT TO BE A DRAGON), characters are real, often despicable in very understandable ways (as compared to EVIL), and at least one of your characters is genuinely interesting (having focused on her dialogue mostly). Nathalie is great. A power hungry 17 year old sorceress who you first meet relishing in the fact that she just blasted a few Avadon prisoners into nothingness. A character who starts shaking with excitement (as described in game) when faced with a tough adversary. Very well done. Encounter Design: Ahh....Jeff Vogel has always had a certain knack for encounter design. Sure, there are trash mobs, but in Avadon you rarely feel bothered mowing through them. This is not only due to the auto heal mechanic (which is contentious and arguably unneeded were healing more thoroughly integrated into the shaman class) but more importantly due to great boss encounters. For example, the sorceress shade, who teleports, at random, your party members to different parts of a dungeon during the fight. Or an escape from a flooding cavern while fighting off bands of ogres (The flooding will kill you, not an illusion of danger). There are certain recycled elements from past Vogel games (boss that spits out monsters when hit), but it works and it works amazingly well. Story: Looking for faction based gameplay, as in Bloodlines, Geneforge 2, etc? Well, you may not find exactly what you're looking for. HOWEVER, the storyline/in game universe is serviceable, if not well-done. This may seem like damning with faint praise, but in an age where RPGs are a mutating, if not dying breed, it is quite the compliment. As a player, I was interested in the world, more so the characters, and I had the understanding that this was the first game in the Avadon series and as such it would taking some amount of acclimation. Point being, there is an argument that new game worlds, or one-off gameworlds (Planescape, Geneforge) should be introduced at first in a limited way, through a personal tale, rather than through making assumptions about the player's commitment to a previously unknown lore. Case in point: G1 and Sucia island. Players were not traipsing across Terrestria and their character was very much alone, no servant or cog in a mass political/military structure. Or Planescape. You were not immediately a member of a faction or, *cough*, a Warden by necessity. You were tabula rasa (relatively speaking) from the start and as such you could accept aspects of the game world in time, not all at once as if it were natural or expected. This was a rambling post and I firmly believe game reviews are made in the aggregate, so c'mon and share. Also, I want to thank Jeff Vogel for making great games.
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