Verelor

I think I do. In Avernum 3 in the Portal Fort at the beginning of the game if you talk to the sage there it says he has a rainbow-colored pen. If you ask him why, he says it represents him and gives him pride. Lol. Basically, it's a deeply embedded reference to him being "fairylike".

If Avernum 4 turns out to be Geneforge 3 in Avernum clothing, it would, in fact, be lame. It would only help, however, if Avernum 4 borrowed a few Geneforge elements. This is yet another shameless plug for the little-known but great game Lords of Magic, but I'd like to see something a little more in the flavor of that when SW gets to starting a new series. It would be of benefit if SW finally changed those old item graphics they feel like shamelessly recycling for every new game. I notice all of Geneforge games and Avernum games use bitmap (.bmp) images for all the graphics files in their games. Bitmaps are outdated, unprofessional, and worst of all take up way more memory than they should. If Jeff makes a much more good looking game for Avernum 4 but switches to a better, smaller image type like JPEG or GIF, the file size would just about balance out anyway. Finally, to the person who said prismatics like a prismatic wall spell would be too D&D-like, bow to my geekness! Item number 495 in Avernum 3 is prismatic mail, and number 473 is a prismatic torc!!!

And let me stress the importance of the next Avernum game having good graphics. There are many gamers in this world that say graphics matter for nothing and all other elements of the game such as interaction and gameplay and story only matter. Well, that's a plain lie. Graphics and captivating music are as important to enjoying a game as any other element. Avernum 4 doesn't have to have beautiful graphics and certainly not polygonal graphics but passable graphics are a must if after 10 years Jeff wishes to bring his company to common knowledge. Don't tell me what Jeff CAN'T do, because he sure proved there was a whole lot he CAN do with his Geneforge trilogy.

I've added a new suggestion about removing the level caps. They were pointless and some people disliked them so much they stopped playing the game.

Where would the third game be set? If at all possible, spanning the entire world.

I personally would LOVE to see a completely new game series.

Ok, not being able to level up anymore was far from enough to make me actually quit playing the great game... It wasn't that bad as I remember it, but yea, it was lame all the same. Character cuztomization doesn't feel quite there yet in Avernum series (the generally linear spell progressions don't help either!), so a D&D-style feats mechanic will truly help that.

You are right about that. Avernum series, especially Avernum 3, were awesome examples of game design. Unfortunately, they mostly only had graphics and ingterface advantages over Exile series in the long run (and total windows compatability). Even if Jeff finds that in his new game only 5 of these suggestions are realisitically programmable and implements them, the game would be vastly improved. That's exactly what would make Avernum 4 the greatest crpg ever and what my examples sum up to: being playably more like Exile, and technologically more like Geneforge 9which includes a true choice in the outcome of game events, few things are more amazing than a game the player is compelled to replay 3 or even more times), and adding a lot of stuffing in between. Maybe I should add a few suggestions for what A4 SHOULDN'T have in order to make it a great game as well.

Exile and other DOS-based games don't even work on my modern WInXP running computer anymore. If it exists in Exile and it was possible back then, it's certainly possible now. I do think I remember Exile having the ability to turn undead (but it was a spell). There has always been graffiti and always will be in the racier parts of large cities. Spray cans ahve nothing to do with it. Avernum is story-based, so your cahracters don't necessarily ahve to be the ones holding the guns (although it would be nice as a very cheap skill to raise), they just exist. If Jeff doesn't change the engine (which he will), it would be the ultimate way to express the lazingess factor, which must always be considered!

Geneforge > Avernum Argument over

If the fourth game will be well into the future perhaps imteresting technological innovations such as the very first firearms could come about.

I would like a lot of spells of non-combat funtionality. You know, all teh cool, fun ones. Summon food, teleportation, passwall (ability to pass through non-magical walls and barriers), waterwalking, wall of force and wall of prismatics (certainly combat-appliable), as well as the traditional clerical ability to turn undead as a non-spell but a special ability. All of this is real fun stuff that was missing in Geneforge and Avernum but some of it saw some actual presence in the Exile series.

Yes, the quest system needs a little revamp. I think I will be adding the suggestion for a better quest system a little later on when I come up with the specifics.

Seems like some good suggestions, though some of these I've already done. I will post the one about bringing back Exile's item descriptions and the street graffiti (as long as the game doesn't actively describe it to you, it's just there), as well as being able to equip your keep or fort or army, which would be a part of running one if the player so chooses. When A4 comes out it will more than likely fall short of what these suggestions hope it will be, but we can dream. Edit: I think I'm changing the part about weapon classes, VCH. Unless I'm insane, I remember bronze weapons. I think I remember stone ones from Avernum 2 (or was it Nethergate)? Rather, it'd be better if we got advanced weapon classes such as: Mithril, Adamantium, Vahnatai-craft, perhaps a rare and powerful metal from Avernum called Avernite that has innate magical properties of it's own (dark blue would be a cool color for that).

Jeff seems to hate a heck of a lot of things about games, hm? Additionally, f*** you Alorael.

Thanks for remaining open-minded btw. Ok amybe camels are out but horses, while they must be taken care of with food and other things like characters ahve to be and can die adn take hits as well, they would provide many speed and combat adventages. Elephants are very slow and can panic easily but expeially for ranging characters can provide a multitude of combat advantages. Ships would work jsut as they did in A2, except they would be large enough for many-man crews, and can be armed and encounter and battle sea enemies like large sea monsters and even pirates! A seperate battle system wouldn't be necessary, something like the current Avernum battle system would do ship vs. ship combat a fair amount of justice. As for actually building your own fort, that's jsut not going to happen. Rather taking control of an already existing fort or town or a military unit for a while is still viable.

Fine then. You can just keep saying no and no to all sh**.

4 new suggestions have been added to the list! Please leave a comment and if you have a soul left in you, make up a suggestion of your own. So noone remembers Lords of Magic: Special Edition? Eh. Too bad, then. I do believe that LoM was one of the most perfect PC titles ever made. They just got everything right in that gem of a game title.

And a checkbox for music/no music and completely redone sounds taht dont sound so jerky and emerassing to show to your friends and I will be a happy camper. No matter what, it had better be different. Also, if 2-d sprite animations slow down your computer when you play, it's not the game, it's YOU. Starcraft has had beautiful Geneforge-quality graphics for almost 10 years now since release and that worked nicely on my last computer before my last computer.

Regardless, if the new engine turns out to be a lot like Exile it will still be totally lame. Seeing as how we are just irreversably off topic here I would request a forum admin or mod delete this topic or set it back on track or something. After a few replies everythign just got out of hand.

The new engine being more like Exile? I would sure hope to God it isn't. No matter who you are, you ahve to agree that Exile is a large step back from Avernum in every way. This is supposed to be an evolution, not a degeneration. Exile is horribly dated now, looks a mess, and is simply not fit anymore for even fans of classic games like Ultima 2 and Wizardry. By new engine I am altogether placing my bets on something far from Geneforge but yet closer. Also, in the surface being an extremely wondrous and alien world to the characters, it takes the player back and makes them think just how amazing their own lives truly are. Things we do not think about suddenly become interesting. Jeff says screenshots and info will arrive in a couple or a few months, and they will tell everything. And well, if it does turn out to be a lot more like Exile than anything, well, I will be damned.

Not everyone like Geneforge's gameplay (which is still really similair at teh skeleton level to Avernum), but most do. As for surpassing the Geneforge engine, that'd be splendid. Getting technically almost as good is what is important, however. Rather than keeping Geneforge and Avernum's gameplay as seperate as possible intentionally, how bout just doing what makes the game most fun? A4 spawning a whole new trilogy? Unless this works something like the 6 Star Wars movies, I want no part of it. All grand tales must know when to stop. I personally also hope that simce A4 will not be an Exile remake like all the others, that will not ahrm it since everything that is designed will ahve to be built from the ground up rather than remaking and touching up concepts.

Also, if he is going to release Avernum 4 (something he himself once said he'd never do), he'd better make sure he releases it as soon as possible, actually. The further and further he waits to release it after BoA, the more and more the entire Avernum story will clash with itself. In my opinion a Nethergate 2 or a compeltely different game saga would be a perfect choice at this point.

And why the hell not? What is so wrong with being able to have nice animations and real-time out-of-combat exploration? It worked flawlessly in exactly 3 games I dont think I have to mention. You damn conservative. I didn't specifically say make it Geneforge but without the geneforge, I just said it would be an improvement if the gameplay resembled it a bit more.

So it has been confirmed that A4 will use a different engine? Hopefuly the gameplay will resembe Geneforge a bit more. And will be a completely different experience. The story should really be different from the 3 current games. If it were told far into the future (it would be exciting to be able to revisit the entire world and see how drastically everything has changed in perhaps 80 years) and from a far diferent angle if possible (I would guess the Empire point of view, since Vahnetai is far too much to hope for here) with at least a Geneforge amount of choice as to how the plot evolves.