Retlaw May
-
Posts
506 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Never
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Blogs
Posts posted by Retlaw May
-
-
It was a joke and reference to another game, if you couldn't tell by the last line...
-
You are missing the point. You can point out a few cases in which humans are as gready as the average Drakon. And I don't buy that load of bull that Drakons are only reshaping themselves only because they need to fight the Shapers, and I doubt that most will dispute that too. Canisters make humans have the attitude of Drakons (which I may point out is extremely alarming to the human population) and they would definatly not stop if the war was over, so neither would Drakons reshaping themselves in order to gain power.
-
LT do you have any proof for your whole thing of Drakons are as diverse as humans in being greedy and power-hungry and all that? Because I don't see enough to give any redemption to Drakons.
-
Well for one thing, the least amount of innocents (or at least people not in the war) are killed.
-
I don't wan to take up a whole page with quotes so I'm going to condence this
Dikiyoba- So you like the ending in which the maximum amount of death and destruction is dealt?
Everyone- Where are people getting the idea that most Shaper research is about war, what I have seen in contrary to that (at least in most recent "peacetime".
Rebel sympathizers- I understand that there is diversity in Drakon thought, but seriously, who is going to argue that they are mostly, with very, very few exceptions, greedy and powerhungary with little regard to any consequenses other than to themselves (even that doesn't always stop them!). There is a big difference between "steriotyping" a Drakon and steriotyping a human. Also, LT, serviles were hardwired to not be able to do magic, and it has worked other than serviles flailing themselves to madness or altering their genes (also leads to madness) so I don't see your poin.
-
Just read everything in the storyline from G3 to G4 and it mentions razing towns down to the ground.
-
Choice is all relative, will you tell the obsessive compullsive that he chooses to wash his hands so many times despite the fact that he knows that even if he doesn't wash his hands that often he suffers no true danger?
But to go on subject, you agreed with LT on the drayk subject, but failed to take into account my arguement of actuall immediate danger that is presented.
PS By taking that condecending tone you basically should put yourself into the category of talking of things unrelated to the Geneforge world, like a 5 year old talking down to 4 year olds.
-
Quote:Originally written by Lepus timidus:
It seems that some members on these boards can dish it out, but can't take it.
-
Quote:
SlaughteringSevile, thanks for reformatting that post. I didn't have the patience to respond to a post which was illegible. I also don't have the patience for petty posturing or addressing arguments which have been repeated ad nauseum.Quote:Quote:
Ghaldring does rule by being the strongest.Quote:Quote:
The types of danger you refer to are different than that which the Drakons pose. Ascending to political and economic power is completely different than being on the verge of waging racial war.
The reason that Drayks and Drakons are targeted for extermination is because they are too independent, and hence believed to represent a potential threat. Such a mentality is identical to that used to exterminate the Kurds, Armenians and Jews.Quote:Quote:
And, to be honest, you refer to stereotypes.
Why is it fine and dandy for humans to target the drayks and Drakons for extermination because they are a 'potential threat', but not for the serviles, drayks or Drakons to target the human race for extermination? Because humans are, well, humanoid?Quote:Quote:
No, intelligent beings that were previously enslaved would want revenge, at least on the Shapers.
Dryss from the Taker Toll road in GF2:
"That is too bad. Creations should not have to fight to be free. But if they must ...""Yesss. I suppose I would not kill and eat the Shapersss if I could avoid it. I would rather have happy, quiet life, being wealthy and eating meat. But that isss not the life I was created into.";
Issss-Ta, from Zhass-Usss in GF2:
"You don't want the Shapers to be destroyed?" "I do not want it to be necessary. But remember, it was your kind who created us, and then you decided that we should no longer exist. We have to defend ourselves."Quote:Quote:
The Drakons were hardly "crushed" in conventional warfare. They barely even fought.
Quoted from the Rebel ending (which is considered canon) in Geneforge 3:
"From all over Terrestia, we have grim reports. The drakons... the rogues... they are everywhere... We are being slaughtered."
"The Ashen Isles and Poryphra are your base of operations. You fight many battles. You are always victorious. Sometimes your forces fight alone, sometimes they are aided by Ur-Drakons..."
I fail to see how the drakons can be 'everywhere', slaughtering Shapers and assisting human/servile rebel forces, without barely even fighting.
As to the issue of the Drakons taking great losses:
Barstow:
"Tell me about the drakons." "The rebellion has two parts, the humans and the creations. The drakons are the leaders of the creations. Gigantic, majestic, powerful reptile creatures. I've only seen one once, but I will never forget it." "They used to fight often in the war, as I understand it. In the north, I mean. But they took great losses, and now they keep to themselves."
Also note what Alwan has to say about the matter:
"How goes the war?" "That is a very good question. We Shapers are advancing on all fronts. Control of the land, the air, the sea. The rebels have been routed into these northern lands, and our infiltrators harry them at every turn."
And let us not forget the introduction to Geneforge 4:
"And so the rebellion began. It was an alliance of humans tired of Shaper rule, and of intelligent creations who wanted to be free. They rose up, stole some of their master's power, and attacked. At first, the Shapers were caught by surprise. Much of Eastern half of Terrestia was lost... But then the Shapers regrouped, and their armies came. The rebels have been pushed back. Their lands have been burned. Lost refugees, both human and creation, wander the rubble."
Of course, you could continue to argue that the Drakons 'didn't bother' to fight conventional warfare. All this would mean is that when Jeff uses the term 'rebels', he means only the servile/human half of the Rebellion. And the term 'intelligent creations' doesn't refer to Drakons. It would also mean that the serviles and humans managed to conquer the Eastern half of Terrestia without Drakon assistance. And that Barstow is lying. But to be honest, I don't find the above assumptions very tenable.Quote:Quote:
The Drakons have more or less abandoned the human Rebellion the humans have to fend for themselves, and with quite a bit less resources than the Drakons, and seem to be doing quite well surviving.Quote:Quote:
But why are the Serviles of lower rank? Because they have less inborn fighting ability? They are more mentally stable? They are less violently radical? They are less bloodthirsty? Why?
1. Ghaldring, a Drakon, is universally acknowledged as the leader of the Rebellion. Even high ranking human rebels, such as Lilita and Greta, defer to him. Hence his edicts are given highest priority. This means that when Ghaldring orders one of his Drakon subordinates to manage a village in the name of the Rebellion, the inhabitants of that village must also obey Ghaldring's subordinates
2. Non-Drakons are of lower rank in regards to the organisation of resistance because Drakons are the most effective soldiers. Once again, this is universally acknowledged by the servile/human resistance.Quote:Quote:
Not entirely, no, Shaper survival did not depend on their ability to Shape. It certainly didn't hurt, but beyond the first tumultuous war for supremacy, Shaping was not necessary.Quote:Quote:
Knowledge does not come without a price. If the Nazis had not engaged in such violent research, how many would have died due to lack of knowledge?Quote:Quote:
The only reason that Shaping has not brought about untold benefits is that the research is insanely, horrifically, complicated. More or less like shooting radiation at chicken embryos to try and make them into cows. And most of this research is directed at warfare.
Such research is unnecessary, horridly cruel and wasteful (the resources expended on this frivolous Shaping could be spent on grain to feed villages suffering famine). Merely because the Shapers occassionally perform useful research does not excuse the vast majority of their other research, which is cruel and unnecessary.Quote:Quote:
The desire to gain knowledge, perverse? Never. Never. Your prejudice towards happy ignorance is too blatant here. Nalyd will leave you to it, Eloi, and wait with the other Morlocks.
Happy? I just lost half an hour of my life to this so you would be able to read it (though now it will probably be a page within itself). Give me some real stuff to chew on next time. -
Terrorist attacks happen all the time, we are the general American public just isn't used to them.
-
Actually it is a short history just in massive amounts of repetition.
-
I cringe at any post that makes me scroll down to finish it.
-
Uhg, how much I hate responding to long posts, I don't have the stomach for it like nalyd does. Basically I'm just going to say that I feel you (Lepus) are wrong on all counts (some based on actual script and a lot based on what I feel are safe inferences), maybe you should play the game again. Also, you are constantly attacking the Shapers for certain things and congradulating the Drakons for the same things, which is always annoying. I may find the time to respond to your whole post in small incroments over the next while, but it is a busy week for me so that is it for now.
-
The BlackRabbit thing does not really indicate corruptness, I suggest that you look the word up in the dictionary as it applies to people before using it again.
-
GoldenKing, just because a group is powerful, doesn't mean they are corrupt. In fact, if I had to venture a bet, I would bet that most Shapers, though arrogant and ambicious, are far from corrupt. Just because a person holds different ideals doesn't make them corrupt.
-
Obviously you are new to this debate that springs up every few weeks and the same tired arguments are made on both sides... But your whole thing about Ghaldring not being at the top if the majority of Drakons didn't support his "pro-human" stance, shows that you have either missed lots of dialog in G4 or you have little comprehention of it. If you don't remember, you walk into a power struggle including the new generation who almost exclusively hate humans and wish to sever ties. Ghaldring rules by being the strongest, not by asking others what they think, his stances don't matter all that much if he leads the drakons to victory and they don't feel that they are too subservient to his rule.
-
I was first introduced to SW games around the time of Blades of Exile I think so I was pretty young when I started playing. Can't quite remember how old I was at the time, but I'm 17 now.
-
Quote:Originally written by Thoughts in Chaos:
Well, the degree of genocide practiced by Hitler more or less exceeded the degree of destruction practiced by Stalin. And the destruction of the Rebels exceeds the genocide of the Shapers. -
Quote:Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:
Quote:Retlaw May:
These are different worlds and different laws apply. -
It is a fool that is not willing to bend. I will tell you that if there was a way to create deadly viruses with a chug of a canister, then things would be different. These are different worlds and different laws apply.
-
But they don't live in our world today. That is the problem with most people's reasoning on who they would support, we are talking about *their* world, not our world. There is a big difference there.
[edit]
PS What do you think that the Drakons would be doing in our world, handing out flowers?
-
I don't think that siding with the Shapers is inherently opposed to being a Democrat. Think about it in practical terms, would a liberal support Stalin over a regular unitarian government?
-
Awakened are dead, they wouldn't panned out in the long run anyways and those who oppose all shaping don't make a difference until the very, very long run. Like I said, there is a reason for there being only 4 choices and why there are words like "sympathise" and "identify most with".
-
There is a reason that there are only ultimadums, its not just because I'm lazy.
Which Geneforge Game is best?
in Geneforge Series - Originals
Posted
G1: all about the atmosphere, story, and potential.
I'm biased agaist G4 because you don't have the satisfaction of being a Shaper to begin with, so much cooler to be in character as one of them even if you play through a betrayal.