Slawbug

The spawners, I'd like to point out, don't just kill serviles, or even many of them. The spawners on Dhonal's Isle, which are the ones that particularly annoyed Mike I think, those are malfunctioning and yet they seem to mostly take out loyalists. Various members of Greiner's army die, including at least one Shaper, whereas we only see a few servile corpses.

I don't buy it. As a political entity that may be what the Awakened turned into, but there was more to them than that. The typical Awakened servile, from all the evidence we saw in the games, was much more like Ellhrah than Tuldaric. Compare to random peasants among the Loyalists and Takers; both sects have some examples of extremely reasonable followers, and also examples of nasty and hateful ones. The Awakened have fewer of those.

The Awakened leaders did fall from their high standards, and eventually the Awakened failed; perhaps both of those things were inevitable. But that's a bit like condemning Christians wholesale based on the despicable actions some Christians in powerful places have taken in the name of their religion. Except that it's easier to be sympathetic to the Awakened, since they have pretty much always been on the defensive.

Also, since when have the Takers/Rebels had any qualms about enslaving other creatures?

Yes, as you mention, the Awakened tried that. They died. Not a better solution at all.

I sense the start of a completely awful children's dental health campaign featuring Mojo Jojo, DDS and the Powerpuff Girls.

Every point of Luck gives you a 2% bonus on all rolls to hit or to dodge. I think it affects damage given and received in some subtle and random way, but I'm not sure. Although the status screen shows a visible increase in armor and resistance from Luck, I'm not sure if this actually happens. (In A4, the visible increase is total baloney and there is no actual change in damage taken.)

I would never ask (or want) Jeff to distribute this. If he sees an idea he likes and uses it, cool, but it's his game. Similarly, editing the story or quests or whatever seems like overkill to me. Not only is it high effort and low reward, that is really not my place to do.

I gave the Vlish luck because I wanted to do something interesting to represent their telepathic abilities (which are mentioned several times in game descriptions).

Roamers, I desperately wanted to make interesting, and different from Artila. The +1 AP is an extremely minor advantage, but it makes them different, and is potentially useful in terms of tactics -- an area that is often blown to smithereens by the sheer power of shaping.

Plated Artila was not a typo. The definitions file contains data on many of the rogue subtypes that appear in the game. The vast majority of them are just higher level versions of the regular rogue, with literally no other changes. I wanted to differentiate them a little bit, to add some more variety to combat. Frankly, I could probably do even more in this regard.

The real problem is that Burning Spray has a misleading name. Jeff uses both "searing" and "burning" to describe acid type attacks in his games, though sometimes he uses "burning" to describe fire attacks. Searer is, frankly, a questionable word to begin with, and not a good spell name if you ask me.

Anyway, the reasoning is that Artila are common, and a staple attacker. They need a straightforward attack that actually does damage (i.e., Searer). The Searing Artila are a variant, so they can have the variant attack (Burning Spray).

Also, keep in mind that only if you look at the scripts do you realize the Artila attack with Searer. The game just describes them as attacking with a glob of acid or something like that. Searing Artila are described the same way.

Edit: Also, Searing Orbs haven't been called that since G1. They're Essence Orbs now.

After discussing the game balance so much recently, it occured to me that I could actually change it -- or at least much of it -- if I wanted to. So I did.

I went through the attack, creature, and item definition files, and made minor adjustments to things I feel are over- or underpowered. The key word here is "minor"; with very few exceptions, I changed numbers by the smallest amount I thought would make a difference. Anything more would be disastrous, since the same sets of definitions determine both player power and enemy power.

I also noticed some previously unnoted imbalances. Did you know that Burning Spray basically does the same thing as Searer, except without the magic damage, and at a lower hit rate... yet costs an extra point of essence?

I'm testing them a bit to make sure nothing causes evil crashes, and then I'll probably put them online in case anyone else wants to give them a try. But I thought I would gather up my edits and see if anyone had any well-reasoned suggestions.

Besides reducing power (Vlish) and increasing it (Clawbugs), I also tried to make boring creations interesting without being unbalanced (Thahd Shades, Searing Artila), add a few skills for flavor (Vlish telepathy, Roamer roaming) and to make arbitrarily annoying aspects of the game less so (item weights). My general rule was that if a great ability still seemed great even after weakening it, I was probably still in OK territory (Mass Energize), and vice versa with crappy abilities. The overall goal: increase potential for fun.

Changes:

Increased general melee damage by 1/5

Increased javelin damage by 1/5

Increased thorn damage by 1/4 (not including reapers)

Reduced Vlish missile damage by 1/6

Reduced Vlish melee damage by 1/5

Held Gazer melee damage at 7/6 normal

Held Alwan's melee damage at normal

Increased Alwan's swords by 3 levels to compensate

Increased accuracy of Burning Spray by 10%

Increased acid level of Burning Spray by 2/3

Increased essence cost of Group Heal to 10

Increased essence cost of Mass Energize to 30

Increased essence cost of Battle Roar to 40

Gave Alwan 30% armor

Gave Greta 15% armor and 15% energy resistance

Increased Enraged Fyora's missile skill by 2

Increased Cryoa's effective base level by 2

Gave Thahd Shade the Icy Touch melee attack Ghosts use (ice damage + slow)

Reduced Thahd Shade's melee skill by 2

Reduced Thahd Shade's effective base level by 2

Increased Thahd Shade's Dexterity by 2

Increased Plated Artila's HP bonus by 10

Gave Searing Artila Burning Spray instead of Searer as a missile attack

Gave Roamers +1 AP

Reduced Vlish's effective base level by 2

Increased Vlish's Luck by 4

Gave Terror Vlish Terror instead of poison mist as a missile attack

Increased Clawbug's melee skill by 3

Increased Plated Bug's melee skill by 5

Increased Plated Bug's armor by 10%

Increased Stinging Clawbug's melee skill by 5 to compensate for the Vlish melee attack weakening

Increased Battle Alpha's melee skill by 3

Increased Battle Beta's melee skill by 3

Increased Battle Beta's effective base level by 2

Increased Battle Gamma's melee skill by 3

Increased Ur-Glaahk's armor by 20%

Gave Ur-Glaahk a cursing melee attack instead of a slowing one

Increased Ur-Glaahk's fire, ice, acid, and poison resistance by 30%

Increased Cryodrayk's missile skill by 8

Increased Cryodrayk's effective base level by 2

Removed Symbiotic Cloak's bonuses to Missile Weapons, Quick Action, and Parry (bug fix)

Increased Deadeye Cloak's Missile Weapons bonus by 2

Increased Farsight Chitin's Missile Weapons bonus by 2

Increased Shielding Knife's armor by 4%

Increased Singing Rapier's Parry bonus by 2

Gave Frozen Blade an icy slowing attack instead of a cursing one

Gave Flaming Sword a fiery cursing attack instead of a normal one

Increased Thorn Baton's attack level by 2

Increased baton, wand, and javelin default charges by 2

Reduced weight of javelins to 0.5 lbs

Reduced weight of Research Notes, Shaper Equipment, and Living Tools to 0.5 lbs

Increased All-Protector's hostile effect resistance by 3%

Increased Projection Band's armor and hostile effect resistance by 3%

Increased Deflection Band's hostile effect resistance by 10%

Arbitrary flavor changes:

Replaced Carnelian Gloves with Lapis Lazuli Gloves

Replaced Rod of Defenses with Rod of Lordly Might

Replaced Rod of Battle with Rod of Channeling

Replaced Koerner's Blade with a secret weapon that Phobia will very much appreciate

Yes. See above.

I think it's a safe bet that Jeff was using "type" and "class" interchangeably in that sentence.

Magma, you really need to stop answering questions that you don't know the answers to!

Jeff wrote here that:

"There are five basic rebel character types. Four of them are human."

He wrote in a newsletter that there will be an option to play a servile.

Nice discovery.

P.S. Red wizard shot the potion!

There's an easy way to test this. Get an enemy terror vlish to attack you, then do the same thing with higher mental resistance and with higher poison resistance. Only the former should reduce damage, I'm pretty sure.

Apparently, Searing Artila and Thahd Shades are not flagged as regular creations.

They have creature type 3, which they share with turrets, pylons, spinecores, and specters.

Other than that they have no special resistances. As far as magic (= energy) damage goes, there is not more than one type. However, disruption is its own category of damage, and terror and stun based damage uses poison resistance, not magic resistance, I guess because they are status effects.

Oh, wait! That's not poison elemental damage, it's mental damage! Duh. The Terror Vlish poison attack is flagged as that type of damage because it used to be a terror attack. Duh, Slarty.

Searing Artila do not get any more health than regular Artila, btw, if you level both up. The Searing Artila just start at a higher level, about 10 levels higher. Since you gain access to regular Artila a lot earlier, this is not particularly relevant.

Vlish absolutely need to be fixed. They are far, far stronger than comparable creations. Flat-out power (as you suggest with the Strong Daze example) is only one issue; relative power is another issue. Right now Vlish outclass practically every second and third tier creation so badly that there's no reason to make the others. That's the definition of poor balance.

Hmm...

No, the damage calculations did not factor in poison or acid drips. I haven't seen poison damage go that high, but I haven't experimented with it that much either.

The Terror Vlish is not crap at all; there are so few enemies that resist poison that it's useful merely for the poison elemental attack itself. Gazers, for example, have good resists against energy, fire *and* ice, and armor as well -- but they don't resist poison. Putting two Terrors at the head of a pack of Vlish would actually be a worthwhile investment in my book.

The Vlish's missile attack does count as magic (= energy). I was only listing special effects in that chart -- you'll notice I didn't list fire or ice flavored damage either.

The Terror Vlish's poison attack does poison the victim (both melee like the regular Vlish, and missile). The amount of poison (and hence amount of damage) depends on attack strength. In general it's less immediately damaging than acid is. I wouldn't rely on it, and I'd certainly say it's much less useful than slowing is.

Difficulty setting affects monster level. When their level is higher, they have more HP, better to-hit and to-dodge rates, and do more damage.

Did anyone here ever play Realmz?

Does anyone else remember the giant pile of poop that resulted when Realmz doubled the number of races and classes available?

That's an extreme case, but less is more. Jeff understands that. It's one of his best qualities as a designer, I think.

Clarifications: creatures that the game engine spawns from spawners don't give any XP. Most spawners seem to have creations around them already when you get there, often a different flavor than what they spawn. Those creatures are not technically "spawned" so they give usual XP.

First, as the other thread demonstrates, Roamers are almost exactly the same as Artila. Less so at lower levels, but the difference is still pretty small. In G1, Artila had a sub-par melee attack... that is no longer the case.

Based on my math, rotghroths will do more damage than a gazer if their Quick Action kicks in, and less if it doesn't. They only have 6 QA. They drip acid, but not really any more than an Artila or Roamer ships out. Here's the thing -- gazers actually have a great melee attack. It stuns, and it does damage with 1-6, rather than 1-4 as Rotghroths and everything else do. So running out of energy isn't a huge problem, especially if you use a melee attack where it's sufficient.

The advantage to rots, of course, is that you can shape them a whole island earlier. The place of gazers and eyebeasts is really alongside vlish, both so you can afford the essence cost, and you don't have to fire the kill ray constantly.

If you observed this in G2, it's also possible things have changed. For one thing, spawned creations never give any XP in G3.

Are you sure this just happens with Vlish?

Weird. If this really happens, it must be hardcoded. Here's the Vlish script:

begindefinecreature 90;// pc created Vlish// base for all Vlish imports	import = 9;	cr_name = "Vlish";	cr_graphic_template = 18;	cr_max_health = 25;	cr_max_energy = 0;	cr_max_essence = 0;	cr_regen_rate = 2;	cr_energy_regen_rate = 6;	cr_walk_speed = 24; //base_speed;	cr_base_level = 12;	cr_creature_type = 1;	cr_default_attitude = 1;	cr_default_courage = 70;	cr_sound_when_slain = 108;		cr_resistances 0 = 30;	cr_resistances 1 = 80;	cr_resistances 2 = 50;	cr_resistances 4 = 50;		cr_abil_num 0 = 80; // sting attack	cr_abil_level 0 = 4;	cr_abil_step_of_launch 0 = 8;	cr_abil_anim_in_reverse 0 = 1;	cr_abil_num 1 = 64; // slow attack	cr_abil_level 1 = 3;	cr_abil_step_of_launch 1 = 8;	cr_abil_anim_in_reverse 1 = 1;

Ancillary effects increase in strength the same way damage does. For creation attacks you get a level or two of slow/acid/poison/whatever for each point of Strength or skill.

Dodge rate for creations is, I think, based entirely on Dex (and the Nimbleness bonus that Thahd Shades and Searing Artila get). So Vlish shouldn't be better at dodging than any other high level creation.