Drayk Armitage
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Posts posted by Drayk Armitage
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The "regenerating" life drain item enhancement in G3 actually worked quite well for a melee-based PC. I guess that's gone the way of the Emerald Chestguard, huh?
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Nope. In Geneforge (and A4) Str, Dex, Int, and End are all determined based on level, and base level is multiplied by some factor dependng on your difficulty.
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Assuming it is the same as with every other spidweb game, difficulty affects only one thing directly: enemy experience level. This in turn affects their health, attack power, and dodge and hit rates.
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I just searched the scripts. It appears the only items there are unlimited "collection quests" for are Research Notes, Swamp Herbs, and Melted Glass.
That's going to lighten my inventory!
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Because the essence calls don't actually mean anything -- other than your PC, nobody in the game checks essence when they cast things.
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You're right, both of those are random drops with a base chance of 1%. That means that however luck affects the chance, it affects it in a very significant way.
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Synergy, I think some of those drops are unique drops and not random ones. That is, individual enemies can be made to "carry" items which will appear when they are killed. Luck will never create item drops, but it WILL increase the chance of random ones, presumably by 1% per point of Luck at least up to 10. Having just 5 Luck makes a really noticeable increase in the number of dropped items.
EDIT: I tend to put a lot of points into Luck right away (except when min-maxing vlish in g3). The first few levels are so cheap, it's a no-brainer. After that, it is worthwhile once your other skills get equally expensive, but I buy it sooner to increase my item drops.
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I'm not convinced.
Melee is better -- partially because of what you mentioned and partially because PCs (but not creations) now have a 5-multiplier melee attack, the new broadswords, which I failed to mention in my attack types thread. That amounts to a flat 20% damage increase, plus a manueverability increase.
That's all good and well when you are attacking one enemy over and over, or a swarm of enemies that cluster around you. But if you're attacking enemies that use ranged attacks, they don't stay close enough to hit two different enemies on the same turn when you are hasted. So ranged attacks still have that big advantage, of always being able to use all attacks when hasted.
I do want to try, at some point, a Missile Servile who puts all his points into Dex, to get deadly missiles and a super-high dodge rate. The engine previously nerfed that by not allowing consistently high dodge rates and I'm not sure if it still will, but it's a nice idea.
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Free skill boosts are great, but keep in mind they work completely differently -- you always get them and they don't affect the cost of new points in a skill. Trainers are a more strategic issue basically requiring advance planning, since you can only use them if you haven't yet put points into the skill in question. When trainers are available early and train "expensive" skills, it's easy to hold off and make use of them. When available late, they are often more frustrating than helpful.
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Is it possible that these discrepancies come from earlier betas?
The artifacts all have the usual listings in the item definitions file, and it would be quite a departure for any random element to exist with that at all. Shapemaster Boots for example list a flat 16% armor and the 10% HER for creations -- +3 levels of damage for creations just isn't there.
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Anyone make a list?
I was reminded by my discovery of the Spellcraft trainer, who is very near the start for such a relevant and expensive (in skill points) skill.
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So, from a plotless munchkin min-maxing perspective, what are the benefits at various points to siding with the Rebels or the Shapers?
Your 'reputation' seems to be controlled by a single variable that starts at 100. The game scripts have 82 calls that increment or decrement it, many of which do not trigger the little "Your reputation with the _ has increased" message. For example, if Shaila dies you get -5 towards the Rebels, and if you walk her to the Forsaken Docks you get +5 towards the Shapers.
There are 41 calls to look it up to determine what happens. However, most of those 41 are in a small handful of zones. It is also worth noting that many of those calls allow your Leadership to replace needed points in either direction on a 1:1 basis.
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If you attack Crowley in chapter 1, he sometimes summons one.
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That's a cool tactic.
I think the question of whether Lifecrafters or Infiltrators make better shapers depends on enemy attack patterns, something I don't know enough about yet. If lots of enemies target the PC, I'd want the hardier character, otherwise I'd rather have the extra essence for more and better creations.
Also, I feel the need to debunk the statement that few things resist physical damage well. Here's all the resistance data from the creature definitions, by creature type and by degree of resistance:
PHYSICAL (0)
15-35: Thahd, Serviles, Roamer Family, Vlish Family, Spawner, Turret Family, Specter Family, Glaahk Family, Kyshakk Family, War Trall Family
36-50: Shaper, Agent, Charged Thahd, Unstable Thahd, Clawbug Family, Servant Mind, Submission Turret, Warriors, Battle Alphabet, Drayk, Cryodrayk, Golem, Drakon, Ur-Drakon, Rotghroth Family, Wingbolt Family
51-65: Guardian, Pylon
66-00:
MAGICAL (1)
15-35: Vlish Family, Warriors, Pylon
36-50: Shaper, Artila, Servile Casters, Apprentice Mage, Golem, Kyshakk Family
51-65: Agent
66-00: Unstable Thahd, Charged Artila, Inferno Wyrm, Servile Power Techs, Servant Mind, Glaahk Family, Mage, Ur-Drakon, Gazer Family, Wingbolt Family
FIRE (2)
15-35: Guardian, Agent, Fyora, Spawner, Warriors, Battle Alphabet, Apprentice Mage, Cryodrayk
36-50: Shaper, Servile Casters, Mage, Gazer Family, War Trall Family
51-65:
66-00: Inferno Wyrm, Servile Techs, Redshell Clawbug, Flaming Shrub, Pylon, Drayk, Golem, Drakon, Ur-Drakon
POISON (4)
15-35:
36-50: Vlish Family
51-65:
66-00: Unstable Thahd, Servile Vat Techs, Oozing Worm, Oozing Crawler, Clawbug Family, Servant Mind, Venom Turret, Specter Family, Golem, Rotghroth Family
ACID (5)
15-35: Apprentice Mage, Pylon
36-50: Artila Family, Roamer Family, Submission Turret, Mage
51-65:
66-00: Unstable Thahd, Oozebeast, Servile Vat Techs, Oozing Worm, Oozing Crawler, Redshell Clawbug, Burning Turret, Specter Family, Rotghroth Family
ICE (6)
15-35: Guardian, Agent, Cryoa, Spawner, Warriors, Battle Alphabet, Apprentice Mage
36-50: Shaper, Servile Casters, Mage, Gazer Family, War Trall Family
51-65:
66-00: Servile Vat Techs, Charged Vlish, Spraying Shrub, Specter Family, Pylon, Cryodrayk, Golem
For the most part, only specialized enemies have high resistances to the elements. Nothing resists physical attacks horribly, but almost everything resists them somewhat. So if you have a Drayk and a Kyshakk, the Kyshakk will be useless against Glaahks and Gazers, but will do better damage against most other enemies. Also, the Kyshakk can still use melee against Glaahks and Gazers.
Acid and Poison do look like the best overall attack types, though. That said, Rotghroth attacks are not acid attacks, they just deliver the acid status effect.
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Whoops. Can somebody move this to the G4 forum?
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Here's some useful data on all the creation types. This first table is arranged by shaping type:
Cost +2 LV HP SP Melee (x4) Missile Spcl Skill FX Mult. Skill Base Acc. Type FX Fyora 8 11 2 25 20 sed2 3 4 4 75 Fire Cryoa 25 32 7 25 400 2 6 0 15 80 Ice Stun Roamer 28 35 10 25 250 2 4 2 8 70 Mag Acid Pyroroamer 15 20 4 2 250 2 -- -- Drayk 60 75 24 60 0 8 9 2 25 75 Phys Cryodrayk 90 111 28 60 0 8 6 8 15 80 Ice Stun Kyshakk 125 152 25 400 500 2 10 2 20 70 Mag Elec Burning K. 160 195 28 100 500 2 10 10 20 70 Mag Elec Drakon 183 222 32 300 500 13 9 13 25 75 Phys Ur-Drakon 220 267 35 300 500 20 10 20 40 75 Phys Slow Str Thahd 12 17 4 60 0 3 -- -- Unstable T. 25 37 12 0 0 -- -- Clawbug 30 39 10 35 0 4 Pois -- -- Plated C. 50 63 16 10 0 0 -- -- AP B. Alpha 55 68 20 60 0 9 -- -- Str B. Beta 80 99 26 60 0 9 -- -- Str Rotghroth 125 152 28 250 0 19 Acid -- -- q,P Corrupted R. 160 181 37 100 0 23 Acid -- -- q,P War Trall 175 212 32 300 0 2 8 2 15 70 Phys Shock Trall 230 279 33 50 0 2 8 2 15 70 Phys AP Artila 12 17 4 10 100 2 4 4 8 70 Mag Acid Plated A. 40 51 12 40 100 2 4 0 8 70 Mag Acid Vlish 32 41 12 25 100 4 Pois 5 3 8 70 Mag Conf Charged V. 75 92 12 0 100 4 Pois 5 3 8 70 Mag Slow Glaahk 60 75 20 40 0 10 Stun -- -- Ur-Glaahk 80 99 30 40 0 10 Stun -- -- Wingbolt 125 152 28 75 600 2 Pois 10 8 40 100 Mag Unstable W. 140 171 28 75 600 2 Pois 3 20 4 75 Fire AP Gazer 180 219 32 180 500 10 Stu+ 10 10 40 100 Mag P,L Eyebeast 240 291 38 300 500 10 Fea+ 10 1 20 Auto Fire P,LAgain, some conclusions may be off, especially regarding the unstable varieties I haven't played with, but the data is solid.
HP and SP refer to Health and Energy bonuses. All creations get a lot of points in both based on their ability scores and levels.
I decided to go through and calculate out average damage as I did for G3. The following table calculates it at three levels. One, at +1 for a fresh creation with minimal shaping skill. One, at +13 for a fresh creation at high skill (the 10-cap makes 13 a likely place to end up at). Finally, one at +33 levels to represent a creation that tags along with you for some time. Presumably, the top tier creations won't be around that long and a Fyora could easily gain 30 levels for a total of +43, but this should make a useful approximation. I did out averages for both melee and missile attacks. Also, it assumes resistance of 0%, which may not accurately reflect prevalent creation resistances for different attack types.
Cost +2 LV Melee Missile Spcl Lv +1 Lv +13 Lv+33 Lv +1 Lv +13 Lv +33 Fyora 8 11 2 13 28 53 14 26 46 (Fire) Artila 12 17 4 15 30 55 22 37 62 (Acid) Plated A. 40 51 12 25 40 65 22 37 62 (Acid) Roamer 28 35 10 23 38 63 24 39 64 (Acid) Cryoa 25 32 7 18 33 58 22 43 78 (Ice) (Stun) Vlish 32 41 12 30 45 70 34 52 82 (Mag) (Conf) (Pois Touch) Charged V. 75 92 12 30 45 70 34 52 82 (Mag) (Slow) (Pois Touch) Cryodrayk 90 111 28 60 75 100 78 99 134 (Ice) (Stun) War Trall 175 212 32 50 65 90 73 100 145 (Phys) Drayk 60 75 24 55 70 95 88 118 168 (Phys) Kyshakk 125 152 25 40 55 80 93 126 181 (Mag) (Elec) Unstable W. 140 171 28 45 60 85 72 84 104 (Fire) (12 AP) Wingbolt 125 152 28 45 60 85 147 180 235 (Mag) (Pois Touch) Burning K. 160 195 28 45 60 85 148 181 236 (Mag) (Elec) Drakon 183 222 32 78 93 118 163 193 243 (Phys) Gazer 180 219 32 107 128 163 169 202 257 (Mag) (Stun Touch) Shock Trall 230 279 33 50 65 90 73 100 145 (Phys) (12 AP) Ur-Drakon 220 267 35 98 113 138 229 262 317 (Phys) (Slow) Eyebeast 240 291 38 93 111 141 126 161 216 (Fire - All) (Fear Touch) Pyroroamer 15 20 4 15 30 55 -- -- -- Thahd 12 17 4 18 33 58 -- -- -- Plated C. 50 63 16 25 40 65 -- -- -- (Pois Touch) (10 AP) Unstable T. 25 37 12 28 43 68 -- -- -- Clawbug 30 39 10 28 43 68 -- -- -- (Pois Touch) B. Alpha 55 68 20 53 68 93 -- -- -- Glaahk 60 75 20 55 70 95 -- -- -- (Stun Touch) B. Beta 80 99 26 60 55 100 -- -- -- Ur-Glaahk 80 99 30 67 82 107 -- -- -- (Stun Touch) Rotghroth 125 152 28 88 103 128 -- -- -- (Acid Touch) (QA) Corrupted R. 160 181 37 108 123 148 -- -- -- (Acid Touch) (QA)
Battle creations may not be as bad as they were before, but they still suck. Horribly. The most egregious example of this is the War Trall -- the fifth-tier creation! -- which is basically a Drayk with extra HP for three times the essence cost. Ghastly. The Shock Trall is better, but still worse than the Ur-Drakon. Battle Alphas and Betas are still almost categorically worse than Glaahks and Ur-Glaahks, who in turn pale compared to Drayks. Rotghroths have about a 1 in 3 chance of getting a second strike in, making them interesting but a lot worse than Wingbolts.
Drayks, Wingbolts, Ur-Drakons, and Eyebeasts look like by FAR the best values. Of the earlier creations, Cryoas and Artilas look like the best bet. Artila and Drayks are more economical and probably available earlier than Cryoas and Wingbolts. So Fire Shaping and Magic Shaping both look like viable paths.
However, ramping up creation damage and multipliers also means that the level bonus for high shaping skill is a lot less critical. It'll get freshly made Drayks an extra 25% or so of damage and a bunch of HP, but a +1 Drayk will still do more damage than a +13 Glaahk, for the same cost in essence. So there's less need to specialize in one shaping skill. That plus the superiority of late game creations means that unlike in G3, the most powerful creations are not going to be the Vlish you take through the whole game. (Augh, my poor Vlish... so nerfed!)
That actually changes a whole lot. Suddenly, it may be more useful for shaping types to spend skill points on magic and combat abilities. And Infiltrators can utilize creations nearly as well as Lifecrafters. Alternately, a Lifecrafter might plug all their skill points into Intelligence and end up with much better armies through 100% of the game than if they had pumped shaping skills. Finally, the "disposable creations" strategy now looks much better than the "drag them along" strategy, possibly always and definitely before you get Drayks.
I think my Lifecrafter plan is now: pump Int and make Artilas, then boost Fire Shaping a little and make Drayks, throwing in a few Kyshakks for damage type variety and HP, and then Ur-Drakons for power.
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Just as in previous games (and A4), the most important factor in damage is the damage multiplier of your attack type. Here's a partial list, which leaves out some items but hits most weapons, spells, and creation attacks:
3 - Thorn batons
3 - Firebolt
3 - Fyora, Unstable Wingbolt breath
4 - Most melee attacks
4 - Javelins
4 - Searer
4 - Artila, Plated Artila, Roamer breath
5 - Broadsword melee attacks (PC only)
5 - Venom batons
5 - Essence Orbs
5 - Vlish, Charged Vlish breath
6 - Acid batons
6 - Ice spray
6 - Cryoa, cryodrayk breath
7 - Submission batons
8 - Wands of disruption
8 - War Trall, Shock Trall breath
9 - Drayk, drakon breath
10 - Kill, Aura of Flames, Essence Lances
10 - Wingbolt, Gazer, Eyebeast, Kyshakk, burning kyshakk, Ur-drakon breath
12 - Reaper batons
There is also base damage, but that scales with the mulitplier in pretty much every case.
You get one level of the multiplier (i.e., 1-3 damage with Firebolt) for each skill level you have. Several numbers go into that depending on the attack type:
PC MELEE: Str + Melee Weapons + Weapon Bonus
CREATION MELEE: Str + Attack Skill
PC MISSILE: Dex + Missile Weapons + Weapon Bonus
CREATION MISSILE: Str + Attack Skill
PC MAGIC: Magic Discipline Skill + Spellcraft + Individual Spell Skill
This same bonus is used to calculate to-hit chance, except for creations where Dex is used for that instead of Str (for all attacks).
Observations:
With high enough Quick Action, melee attacks from your PC are equivalent to a multiplier of about 11 (2 x avg 3 vs 1 x avg 6). However, that much investment in Quick Action means your attack skill might be lower than for a comparable magic-user investing in just Battle Magic and Spellcraft. Melee, it looks like, holds its own with mid-level magic spells, but may be somewhat less powerful than Kill spells and Reapers. OTOH, it doesn't run out, and lets you save your essence for Daze or Dominate. ...OTOH, physical damage resistance is more common among creations and serviles and so forth, while magic and ice resistance are still pretty rare.
The Ice Lances spell no longer stuns! It also no longer costs essence. Breath from cryoas and cryodrakes still stuns. Also, regular Vlish no longer slow... they confuse their victims?!
I haven't finished my creation analysis yet (I am missing a very crucial component... essence costs! Anyone have a list?), but it looks like a number of the later creations do truly excellent damage: Drayks, Kyshakks, Drakons, Wingbolts, and Gazers. War Tralls (fifth tier) seem quite inferior to Drayks (third tier), whose breath does non-elemental physical damage now.
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Too much information.
Strategy Central was helpful because I constructed it after-the-fact; there were lots of discussions I left out and I only linked to things that had specific useful information. That won't sort itself out automatically as people post. Someone has to do the sorting, and that requires the perspective granted by time.
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Does this mean that empty pots and boxes are the new doors?
"I can't hit-and-run. Oh, wait -- there's an empty pot around that corner! I'd better inspect it, coincidentally getting out of this kyshakk's sight..."
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One of the first things I noticed about G4 is that the relationship between class strengths and various statistics is not as obvious as you might expect. This is an attempt at clearing things up a bit.
Disclaimer: I haven't played through most of the game, so some of my conclusions may be suspect. The data I do have is solid, however.
HEALTH, SPELL ENERGY, and ESSENCE FORMULAS BY CLASS Warr Serv S.T. Life Infl HP (Mult) 10/8 10/8 8/8 7/8 8/8 (Base) 28 30 28 20 20 SP (Mult) 8/8 12/8 14/8 12/8 14/8 (Base) 20 16 28 28 28 EP (Mult) 6/8 6/8 8/8 8/8 7/8 (Base) 10 10 10 10 10
The basic formula for all three stats is:
Stat = Base + ((Level + 1) * Int/End * Multiplier)
HP uses Endurance while SP and EP use Intelligence.
The important thing to note is that the multiplier is far, far more important than the base score, once you are past the first few experience levels. (I am not 100% sure I have the exact multipliers, but they are very close.)
EFFECTIVE SKILL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CLASSES Warr Serv S.T. Life Infl Melee # 11 11 8 3 7 Missile # 9 9 6 5 8 Quick Act. 7 7 3 1 3 Parry 8 8 3 0 3 Battle M. 1 4 1 4 6 Mental M. 1 3 1 3 6 Bless M. 1 4 1 4 6 Spellcraft 0 1 0 1 3 Fire S. 3 1 4 4 1 Battle S. 2 1 4 4 1 Magic S. 2 0 3 3 0 Heal M. 4 2 6 6 2 Intelligence 2 2 4 4 3
This table basically represents several things with one number:
(1) Base stats
(2) Practical impact of cheaper/more expensive skills for different classes
(3) For melee and missile attacks, base Strength and Dexterity stats
It basically tells you "For the same investment of skill points, a Warrior will have 5 more points of Parry than an Infiltrator," for example.
For #2, if you do out the math, you will discover that the difference between two classes in how much of a stat they can get for a given skill point investment remains relatively constant across any number of skill points. The differences vary depending on how base cost of the skill. That is a simplification, but one that offers a good representation of things.
Observations:
(1) The two fighting classes get rather significant statistical bonuses related to melee combat. They also get about a 25% HP bonus over the other classes and a sizeable Parry bonus. Large bonuses! The existence of the Servile means that (unlike with the Agent) there is really no reason to make a melee-oriented Infiltrator.
(2) The Infiltrator's magic bonus is real, but not gigantic. Compared to the Servile and Lifecrafter, she gets a bonus of about +4 for any given spell.
(3) The Warrior is nearly as good at shaping as the shaping classes, especially if you want Fire Shaping. He does however have a 25% essence penalty, and has 2 fewer points in Intelligence. So his creations are good, he just can't have as many. Seems like nice balancing!
(4) Despite being awful at magic, the Shock Trooper gets loads of Spell Energy. However, I still can't see any compelling reason to use this character! If you pump shaping skills a Lifecrafter will be better -- it's easy to snag some useful points in magic but you won't have enough skill points to pump all your melee skills to a relevant level. If you don't pump shaping skills much, a Warrior seems like a better deal.
(5) If, as suggested elsewhere, the late game creations are very powerful even at low levels, an Infiltrator with shaping skills and high Int might actually be one of the most powerful builds. On the other hand, if the advanced versions (which still require shaping skills of 5 or 6 for the top three tiers) are the best, Lifecrafters will still come out far ahead.
Thoughts? Observations?
Tomorrow: data on all of the creations.
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The Servile is the class I have been waiting for since I started running melee agents in G2. More balanced than I was expecting, though. Analysis forthcoming.
Anyone care to explain what this 'Great Change' consisted of?
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I'm impressed that Erika's Legacy was the first third-party scenario you played, and yet you have played so many since then.
That was the one that turned Erika into a Crystal Soul and kept talking about "Rentarino", no?
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What Thuryl said.
The later Wizardry games had nice names for skills like that. Legerdemain referred to stealing stuff, while there was Skulduggery for picking locks, and so on.
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How many PC's do you play with? One, typically. Sometimes I'll do a party of two or three. Every so often I try six, then remember how annoying I find the experience distribution.
How many scenarios have you played? Probably forty or so, over the years, though I've only played five or six all the way through.
Absolute favorite BoE scenario? Nephil's Gambit, by many miles
When did you get the registered version of BoE for the first time? Several days after it was first released
What is the first third-party scenario you played? I'm not sure. The first one I remember was Riddle of the Spheres, but it might well have been another.
Favorite all-around scenario designer? Maybe Drizzt.
Out of your own scenarios, which do you feel is your best? Let's see, out of the four scenarios I started and never finished...
What is your favorite scenario icon? It's been a while, and BoE doesn't run on my current computer, alas.
If you could make one BoE scenario into a movie, which scenario would it be? I haven't played most of Creator's scenarios, but I imagine one of those
What is your favorite spell? I'll go with Flame Cloud.
What is your favorite item of all time? (It doesn't matter how many scenarios have the item in it. Can be one, can be all.) I remember one scenario that had NPCs who were transformed into ego items. That was neat.
What do you think is the absolute most overrated BoE scenario of all time? Tatterdemalion. I don't like that thing at all.
What do you think is the absolute most underrated BoE scenario of all time? Valley of Dying Things. It isn't spectacular, but it isn't nearly as bad as the way people talk about it. I get the impression it would have insanely better reviews if it were a third-party scenario.
If you could add one new feature to BoE or the scenario editor, what would it be? OS X compatibility.
What is your least favorite scenario out of those rated 7.0 or higher on CSR? ...Tatterdemalion
Which scenario do you think is the worst ever? There's lots of horribles, but only one can be the absolute worst. War of Exile.
What is your favorite TM scenario? Nebulous Times Hence
What is your favorite Creator scenario? Haven't played enough to judge
What is your favorite scenario in the Spheres trilogy? Only played the first one.
What scenario do you think should have won the first design contest? Nephil's Gambit, hands down.
Name one random scenario that has not been mentioned by anyone in this thread (first that comes in your head.) Election!
If TM returned, and he and Kel continued to argue, do you think that should continue, or do you think they just have to duke it out? I'm picturing that scene from Return of the Jedi, with Marlenny as nearly naked Leia, Kel as Han Solo and TM as Jabba. Hee.
Southforge Item Stealing
in Geneforge Series - Originals
Posted
You have to be close enough to see what he is doing, but far enough to not trigger the message you got. I recommend following just behind him as he walks south, and saving just before he enters the room. Then you can try different positions to see what works.