Archaeolagent

*pets his algorithm* I had faith in you, my pretty! *ahem* Anyway -- yay for testing Haste, btw, does not give +4 AP, haste gives +50% AP, calculated after all other bonuses and penalties to AP are applied. And you can indeed equip 3 +1 items -- 1 chest armor, 1 footwear, and 1 spear or shield. So you should be able to get a natural 14 AP and a hasted 21 AP. It takes three times the investment of getting to 10/15 AP, but hey...

Ahh, that was just one of the high-powered damage messages from MUDs I played; it always made me laugh. 'You graze the lamia.' 'You *disembowel* the lamia.' And so on.

Ahh, that was just one of the high-powered damage messages from MUDs I played; it always made me laugh. 'You graze the lamia.' 'You *disembowel* the lamia.' And so on.

You *defenestrate* the nephil shaman!

You *defenestrate* the nephil shaman!

*nod* I know what you mean, kuc. Somehow RPGs bring out the research scientist in me. I have notes on my computer covering years and years of these little projects. Quick Strike seems nice and simple compared with trying to figure out how stat increases were handed out in Dragon Warrior III... or how the heck anything worked in Dungeon Master. I loved that game, but its engine often surprised me, to say the least.

*nod* I know what you mean, kuc. Somehow RPGs bring out the research scientist in me. I have notes on my computer covering years and years of these little projects. Quick Strike seems nice and simple compared with trying to figure out how stat increases were handed out in Dragon Warrior III... or how the heck anything worked in Dungeon Master. I loved that game, but its engine often surprised me, to say the least.

But there's a lot of anecdotal evidence for bless. First, it seems pretty obvious that it makes numbers go up significantly Second, one of Jeff's big pet peeves about other RPGs, when he first made Exile, was that blessing effects were usually ineffectual. I doubt he's reversed his position on that one.

But there's a lot of anecdotal evidence for bless. First, it seems pretty obvious that it makes numbers go up significantly Second, one of Jeff's big pet peeves about other RPGs, when he first made Exile, was that blessing effects were usually ineffectual. I doubt he's reversed his position on that one.

Synergy -- great testing. Important question: In your non-hasted test WHAT is the difference between the PCs you tested at QS 3 and 4, and the QS 7 PC? The results are completely different for the QS 7 guy. While the QS 3 and 4 results conform to my algorithm, more or less, he is way off from them as well as from my own QS 7 results. Are you SURE he doesn't have Fast on Feet or weird equipment or... I dunno, anything else?

Synergy -- great testing. Important question: In your non-hasted test WHAT is the difference between the PCs you tested at QS 3 and 4, and the QS 7 PC? The results are completely different for the QS 7 guy. While the QS 3 and 4 results conform to my algorithm, more or less, he is way off from them as well as from my own QS 7 results. Are you SURE he doesn't have Fast on Feet or weird equipment or... I dunno, anything else?

Really, Thuryl? I can only say ARGH! Hey, Vlish and Synergy, since you guys get different results from me, can you do me a favor? Duplicate the test I performed. New game, naked human, no traits, put all your skill points into dex, melee, QS which should get you QS 5. Run through a bunch of turns. 'iwanttobestronger' to level 10 and QS 10, and try again. And tell me if it looks like the results I was getting. (For reference: 5 QS produced 24@8, 22@9, 4@10, 10 QS produced 13@8, 24@9, 13@10) If the results are similar, there is some other factor we need to take into account. If they aren't, then Thuryl has pinpointed the cause and I will throw my hands up in despair

Really, Thuryl? I can only say ARGH! Hey, Vlish and Synergy, since you guys get different results from me, can you do me a favor? Duplicate the test I performed. New game, naked human, no traits, put all your skill points into dex, melee, QS which should get you QS 5. Run through a bunch of turns. 'iwanttobestronger' to level 10 and QS 10, and try again. And tell me if it looks like the results I was getting. (For reference: 5 QS produced 24@8, 22@9, 4@10, 10 QS produced 13@8, 24@9, 13@10) If the results are similar, there is some other factor we need to take into account. If they aren't, then Thuryl has pinpointed the cause and I will throw my hands up in despair

Hmm. The 9 being rare thing is weird. Having Fast on Feet spreads out the results a lot more, but 9 should never be less common than BOTH 8 and 10. Hmm. Hmm hmm hmm. What's doing this?!?

Hmm. The 9 being rare thing is weird. Having Fast on Feet spreads out the results a lot more, but 9 should never be less common than BOTH 8 and 10. Hmm. Hmm hmm hmm. What's doing this?!?

Thanks for the reminder Synergy, I was going to account for your test but forgot. Hmm. Crap I'm not sure. I don't think level is a factor. My testing was done with a naked human, with no traits, and no stats improved except for the requisite Dex and Melee, and QS itself. Testing through 10 QS was done at level 10 (though this produced the same results as at level 1, at least for QS 5). Above that I tested at level 28. Also, he didn't fight, he just ended his turn repeatedly. I think it must be the case that another skill can also provide bonus AP. I am going to guess it is a separate process, since my algorithm works pretty well in a controlled environment -- though that could be wrong. Your results aren't that far from my predicted results shifted up by somewhat less than 1 AP: You had approximately: 09 - 41% 10 - 53% 11 - 6% Algorithm would predict: 08 - 42% 09 - 45% 10 - 12% That makes me think that perhaps there is another bonus AP at work with a fairly high chance of succeeding. Could Quick Action do this?

Thanks for the reminder Synergy, I was going to account for your test but forgot. Hmm. Crap I'm not sure. I don't think level is a factor. My testing was done with a naked human, with no traits, and no stats improved except for the requisite Dex and Melee, and QS itself. Testing through 10 QS was done at level 10 (though this produced the same results as at level 1, at least for QS 5). Above that I tested at level 28. Also, he didn't fight, he just ended his turn repeatedly. I think it must be the case that another skill can also provide bonus AP. I am going to guess it is a separate process, since my algorithm works pretty well in a controlled environment -- though that could be wrong. Your results aren't that far from my predicted results shifted up by somewhat less than 1 AP: You had approximately: 09 - 41% 10 - 53% 11 - 6% Algorithm would predict: 08 - 42% 09 - 45% 10 - 12% That makes me think that perhaps there is another bonus AP at work with a fairly high chance of succeeding. Could Quick Action do this?

I was thinking of the fine leather, focus crystals, and so on. Crafting! That's the word I was looking for.

Also, since bows can be used at close range, I'd rather just pump one of the archery skills. Melee or pole skill of 6 or whatever, with little or no investment in QA or other melee skills, doesn't seem like it would be better than a well-developed bow attack.

Also, since bows can be used at close range, I'd rather just pump one of the archery skills. Melee or pole skill of 6 or whatever, with little or no investment in QA or other melee skills, doesn't seem like it would be better than a well-developed bow attack.

With FoF and a few points in QS, you have three chances to get a bonus point; you only need two to succeed in order to get to 10 AP. With FoF + 4 QS for example, you'll get +2 AP or better about 20% of the time. With FoF + 8 QS you'll get +2 or better about 40% of the time. This isn't a -horrible- deal, I'd just much rather use the items and save the skill points for something useful.

With FoF and a few points in QS, you have three chances to get a bonus point; you only need two to succeed in order to get to 10 AP. With FoF + 4 QS for example, you'll get +2 AP or better about 20% of the time. With FoF + 8 QS you'll get +2 or better about 40% of the time. This isn't a -horrible- deal, I'd just much rather use the items and save the skill points for something useful.

I know it's simpler this time around. Nonetheless, anyone have a list of the possible recipes, so I don't squander my ingredients?

I did some more testing and I believe I can now state precisely what Quick Strike does. On each PC's turn, he gets two independent chances to get +1 AP. Each chance is very close to 5% per point of Quick Strike. This does not explain everything -- there was a little more variation than I would expect, and with 20 Quick Strike I still got 9 AP VERY rarely -- but it works with the averages. This would predict the following: Quick Strike score -- % +0, % +1, % +2 0 -- 100%, 0%, 0% 5 -- 56%, 38%, 6% 10 -- 25%, 50%, 25% 15 -- 6%, 38%, 56% 20 -- 0%, 0%, 100% If there is a maximum chance cap of say 99% that would explain the 9 AP scores I saw with 20 QS. If you only care about getting one bonus AP from Quick Strike, the increased chance of getting +1 or greater for each point of QS you buy begins just below 10% for the first point of QS and drops about 0.5% per point until it ends just above 0% for the 20th point. Fast on Feet seems to provide another independent check for +1 AP, but this one is always 50%. In combination with QS this halves the chance of getting zero bonus AP. So 5 QS + FoF means you're about 72% likely to get a bonus. 10 QS + FoF means you're about 88% likely to get a bonus. In that case, you spent 19 skill points to get an extra attack 22% of the time... then you spent 31 skill points to get one 16% of the time. IMHO, this is further evidence that archers and spellcasters should restrict themselves to the AP-boosting items. It's harder to use extra turns, tactically, if they're inconsistent. Melee fighters on the other hand already rely on a number of other fluctuating random factors, especially Quick Action, so the new inconsistency is insignificant.

I did some more testing and I believe I can now state precisely what Quick Strike does. On each PC's turn, he gets two independent chances to get +1 AP. Each chance is very close to 5% per point of Quick Strike. This does not explain everything -- there was a little more variation than I would expect, and with 20 Quick Strike I still got 9 AP VERY rarely -- but it works with the averages. This would predict the following: Quick Strike score -- % +0, % +1, % +2 0 -- 100%, 0%, 0% 5 -- 56%, 38%, 6% 10 -- 25%, 50%, 25% 15 -- 6%, 38%, 56% 20 -- 0%, 0%, 100% If there is a maximum chance cap of say 99% that would explain the 9 AP scores I saw with 20 QS. If you only care about getting one bonus AP from Quick Strike, the increased chance of getting +1 or greater for each point of QS you buy begins just below 10% for the first point of QS and drops about 0.5% per point until it ends just above 0% for the 20th point. Fast on Feet seems to provide another independent check for +1 AP, but this one is always 50%. In combination with QS this halves the chance of getting zero bonus AP. So 5 QS + FoF means you're about 72% likely to get a bonus. 10 QS + FoF means you're about 88% likely to get a bonus. In that case, you spent 19 skill points to get an extra attack 22% of the time... then you spent 31 skill points to get one 16% of the time. IMHO, this is further evidence that archers and spellcasters should restrict themselves to the AP-boosting items. It's harder to use extra turns, tactically, if they're inconsistent. Melee fighters on the other hand already rely on a number of other fluctuating random factors, especially Quick Action, so the new inconsistency is insignificant.