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Geneforge 5 - Possible Sects


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I think the Shapers will fracture into two groups, the hardliners that will make new creations capable of independent thought have a fail safe that will make them kill themselves upon commands from the Shapers and the moderates that will allow some creation rights. The Rebellion will be split between the human/servile faction and the drakon factions with some cooperation between them, but they will each seek to rid themselves of the other's leaders. The Trakovites will still work to overthrow shaping so they will be the odd ones out and hunted at every chance. Plenty of XP for betraying them.

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But why would a human or servile play in favor of the Drakons? After all: only the Drakons like the Drakons, who want the whole world and all the power for themselves and -- let's be honest -- would prefer to enslave all species to serve them. . . and the human and servile rebels in G4 admitted that the Drakons were a "problem" that they would need to deal with after their more pressing problem -- the Shapers -- was taken care of.

 

I voted Shaper, Radical Shaper, Human Rebel, Awakened, and Trakovite. It seems inevitable that the Rebellion will break apart, and the Shapers as well . . . and the Trakovites seem to hold a good portion of the answer to ending all the strife.

 

(EDIT : The first paragraph was for Dragonlord..)

(EDIT : ...and Raji)

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I don't see the powerful Drakons as particularly devoted to Drakonkind. It is just that they respect only power, and rightly consider that non-Drakons generally don't make the cut. But I can definitely see a sect in which a few heavily canistered humans or serviles co-exist with Drakons.

 

The question is whether ET's beloved Barzite faction will appear somewhere here. Will the canister-mad humans ally with the Drakons against all orthodox Shapers and lesser beings, or with lesser humans against all creations and orthodox Shapers? Obviously the only real goal for any true Barzite-type is to put themselves alone above everything else in the universe. But which way will they do it?

 

Perhaps the point is really that Barzites simply are not, in fact, a faction. They are individuals out for themselves alone, and their only use for others is as tools. In Drypeak, Barzahl was really the only Barzite, and within the small pond of the Drypeak mountains, his tools counted as a faction. At this stage of the war there may be many Barzites, but there are many more and greater other powers playing than there were in Drypeak. A lone Barzite's army will not at this stage constitute a faction to compare with Ghaldring's entire race of Drakons, or the Shaper Council's empire.

 

So in G5 I would guess that lone Barzites will only appear, if at all, as sub-factional NPCs somewhere in the range between Phariton and Monarch. But both Rebel factions, and perhaps even a more radical Shaper faction, will probably include Barzite-minded individuals looking to use the faction for their own ends.

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I anticipate the five factions will be:

 

1. Shapers, the usual.

2. Rebellion, with drakon leaders and human followers still.

3. Neo-Awakened, basically rebels minus the crazy people.

4. Trakovites, Jeff totally set them up in the last game.

5. See below.

Quote:
Originally written by Student of Trinity:

Will the canister-mad humans ally with the Drakons against all orthodox Shapers and lesser beings, or with lesser humans against all creations and orthodox Shapers?

If they are true Barzites, they would never ally with creations. That would just make them more rebels, wouldn't it? What makes the Barzites different from any other faction is that they are canister users who still hate creations, an ideology sorely underrepresented in the past two games.

 

And they do not have to work alone, either. They are basically orthodox shapers who want to take that extra step to put creations back in their place, which totally constitutes a faction. With the Shapers needing to bend their rules more and more all the time, it would likely be a popular faction as well.

 

They don't necessarily work only for their own benefit, either, unless they happen to be Tullegolites as well. Give them a new name, and you actually have a fairly logical faction: the people who hate creations because of the war and who intend to use all the power lying around to bring it to an end. Yes, they will probably end up crazy like the Barzites were, but that's the fun part.

 

I can't understand why Jeff has left this ideology out of the games for so long. If he leaves this option out again, I will be disappointed.

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I think that Barzites in this sense, ultra-Shapers, are a sure bet for G5. It's the obvious counterpart faction to the Drakon wing of the Rebellion. It made sense for this faction to be absent from G4 and G3. Since the Shapers were either winning or not yet alerted to danger, there was no pressure on them to resort to non-traditional means of resistance. But the ending texts to G4 already indicate that, when pushed hard by the Unbound, the Shapers do relax their rules and resort to extreme measures. So I'm pretty sure the Shaper ultras will be a G5 faction.

 

They may not be openly all-out for canisters, at least not at first. There are many Shaper taboos, and the ones against self-shaping will probably not be the first to be abandoned. But I doubt anyone will have to push too far into the back rooms to find the canister stashes.

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Yeah, that's along the lines of what I was thinking:

 

Majorly juiced-up-on-Shaping Drakons who are willing to offer incredible powers (better canisters, maybe even a more powerful Geneforge *hint hint*) to worthy humans and/or serviles who basically pledge their undying loyalty to them.

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I have an idle suspicion that the Awakened might show up again, in some form. Jeff has indicated that he wants the option of satisfying, happy endings. In earlier games, the Awakened provided this option for many people; they were probably the most popular sect in G1. Khyryk, similarly, was very popular in G3, at which point he had not yet adopted a Trakovite viewpoint.

 

I'm not actually sure that I expect the Shapers to split. Although there were some internal ideological differences in G4, there was nothing to the degree of the drakon-human tension among the rebels. Additionally, it seems unlikely that the Shapers would not put aside their differences in the face of Unbound-style aggression. If anything, I would expect the really purist Shapers to join the Trakovites. (And surely, after the destruction of G4's ending, the Trakovites will have greater numbers, even if they are still small and weak overall.)

 

A rebel split seems more likely -- particularly because such a split facilitates creating a situation where FIVE different sects all have a chance of coming out on top. The fewer huge powerful sects there are, the more plausible this seems.

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If there is an Awakened faction, there will be little room for a non-drakon type Rebellion faction. Unless those that break away from the Rebellion become the new Awakened.

 

I think a Shaper split is more likely because as the Rebels continue to grow more and more powerful and the Shapers continue to run out of trained shapers, some will turn to canisters. Those some will technically be Barzites.

 

I figure both splits will happen, still leaving room for the Trakovites. There's your five sects.

 

I'm still hoping for that extra yourself faction, however. Jeff's included non-faction endings before, so who knows.

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Quote:
Originally written by Student of Trinity:
They may not be openly all-out for canisters, at least not at first. There are many Shaper taboos, and the ones against self-shaping will probably not be the first to be abandoned. But I doubt anyone will have to push too far into the back rooms to find the canister stashes.
I really hope there wouldn't be a theme of reluctance in a Barzite faction. I would prefer a more "we told you so, now let's embrace our birthright" attitude.
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Oh, I doubt they'll really be reluctant. Even if they were at first, after six canisters the clarity will come. But I wouldn't be surprised if some of their dimmer subordinates were kept in the dark about this. So the player's first contact with what I think of as the ultra faction may well be with strict canister-free purists.

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It will be hard to make the five faction really distinct given a war between two sides; especially as Sholai involvement has been ruled out. I can see the likelihood of extreme rebel, mild rebel, mild loyalist and extreme loyalist factions, a spectrum quite similar to GF2. But I wonder what the viewpoint of the fifth faction will be? Perhaps trakovite qualifies as off-the-charts rebel...

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I think there will bee some sort of Neo-Awakened, probably from an the rebellion splitting. the Drakons and canister mad rebels will be another faction. Moderate GF3 style shapers would be one faction and barzite-ish extremist shapers. the fifth would be the trajkovites. Either the awakened or the trajkovites would yield a happy ending.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Originally Posted By: Randomizer(The Great)
You already saw in GF4 some shapers gathering cannisters in preparation to give themselves a little extra to help remove the rebels. It won't take much to push that faction over the edge into cannister usage to counteract a new drakon creation similar to the unbound.

whistleDrakon+Shaper=Destruction.You speak truth.


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Originally Posted By: Executor Xel'Raga
1: Shapers (Dur...........)
2: Drakon Rebels
3: Human Rebels (much weaker than drakons though, but they still live
4: Radical shapers
5: Travokites

This way, all fractions are split apart and the Travokites can be in the competition



Tip-Radical Shapers=Bartzites
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I think you all are forgeting a sect in G4, the drayaks near the end. They were starting to rebel against the Drakons remember-and although they might not make a full sect, they might create a new rebel side-those who oppose the rebels and those who oppose the shapers like the trankovites.So it is possible that they will just join with the Tranks but who knows till the game comes out...Jeff does.....amd Bhuda.....My breakdown

 

1)Shapers who wish for their old ways

 

2)Rebels who are with Drakons

 

3)Rebels who oppose the Drakons

 

4)Shapers who will fight but change their ways a bit

 

5)Humans who ally with creations like the drayk and will try and make the world of geneforge a better place for creations AND humans)

 

I dont think there will be Tranks alone because of the fact that now i think it will break shapers and rebels into what i said above.And Jeff if you read any of these, Hurry i cant wait no longer....

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I believe an Awakened faction would more likely evolve from human and servile rebels rather than radical Shapers. And creations most certainly could ally with those against shaping, Zindahjira. There was a drayk as one of the primary Trakovite contacts in Genforge 4, if I recall correctly. It makes sense, really; as a creation, why would they want any more creations to be brought into the world as a slave as they were? They tend to prefer to reproduce naturally. Trakovites have nothing against creations, merely the conditions that have risen due to the practice's propagation.

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The idea of two big sides, with different sects within each could be good. So, we could have two different Shaper sects, a moderate one just trying to get rid of the Drakons and end the war, and a more hard-line one trying to purge the world of anything that was remotely involved with the rebellion, two Rebel sects: a human/servile one, with similar goals as the moderate Shapers, and a creation one (Drayk, Drakon) out to crush the Shapers completely, and lastly, the Trakovites.

 

Jeff has been scaling down the sides throughout the last two (arguably three) games, as the smaller sects got eaten up by the bigger ones. And, as much as I'd like to see him bring back some more as a final swansong, this is an end-game, and individual sects like the Awakened or Takers aren't going to be able to compete with the Shapers without teaming up with like-minded groups.

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I humbly disagree. I think the last few games have been building towards open dissension within both of the major sects. I do not think the old sects were so much eaten up as they were destroyed; their ideas are still valid. The two major sects have both alienated so many of their own followers, that I feel any new sects would be able to quickly and easily establish themselves in the chaos of the war. I believe the major sects are weakened enough at this point for this to be possible, and, as was said before by others, the Awakened and Barzites would be able to split from the existing sides (Awakened as moderates from the Rebels and Barzites as moderates from the Shapers), not necessarily just appear on their own from nothing.

 

At least, I hope this could all happen. I hope I don't presume too much, but I, too, wish the return of the old factions.

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Forgive me if what I said was confusing, it made sense to me I suppose. I figured that if the difference between a Shaper and a Barzite is simply that Barzites like to use canisters, that would place them somewhere between the two major factions. Perhaps moderate was not the correct word, but they are certainly some kind of median, assuming there is a straight line between the two major factions.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think there will be Trakovites, Shapers, moderate rebels/Awakened, and hardcore rebels. I'm not sure about the fifth one. It depends on exactly how the other sects turn out.

 

One thing Dikiyoba would like to see is drakons in multiple sects. We don't know too much about them, but what we have seen makes them pretty similiar. It would be nice to see them fracture; perhaps something happens to Ghaldring to make that possible. Dikiyoba can imagine it becoming a point of pride to be born instead of shaped, so some drakons would join the more moderate rebels or the Trakovites to get away from the self-shaping excesses of the Unbound supporters.

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It's already a point of pride to be born, not Shaped. When questioning Litalia about what she's been Shaping, she specifically says that the Drakons will only reproduce biologically, and not be Shaped. The PC, of course, doesn't count.

 

Bit of a shame really. If they were allowed to Shape Drakons, I'd imagine that the Rebels would not have such a need for the Unbound.

 

However, I do agree that Drakons in multiple sects would be nice. Perhaps the Salassarites split to join the Barzite sect. Yeah, that would make sense. Kind of. Maybe. I don't know.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Originally Posted By: Sleeping Dragon
Goldenking, I don't think drakons can join the Barzite sect. They don't believe in creation independence, if they did, they would be no different from the regular rebels.


Maybe they don't care, they have proven to be very crazy, after all, Salassar started killing himself when he was losing. Normal Rebels favor Serviles, not Humans.

Silver Shadow:
Drayks who aren't on a mission to kill all Drakons all go to the Travokites, so yeah, I could imagine the renegade Drayks joining.
Awakened have passed and gone.
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Originally Posted By: Sleeping Dragon
Goldenking, I don't think drakons can join the Barzite sect. They don't believe in creation independence, if they did, they would be no different from the regular rebels.


Salassarites don't believe in creation independence either. Nor human independence. Just the ultra-powerful, including canister-warped humans, ruling over the weaker Drakons, Drayks, Humans, Serviles, etc.
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Originally Posted By: Nalyd, Prince of Suicides
Indiscriminate dictatorship. Delicious.

Drayk Trakovites? Blech, talk about forsaking your roots. Nalyd can see why Trakovism is so popular among the uneducated and insane. Khyryk doesn't count, he was a hypocrite.


The drayks in Derenton Freehold, if you remember, insist that they reproduce biologically, rather than being shaped. From there, I don't see a rogue group of drayks having any qualms about fighting the continued practice of shaping.
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Hmmm, Nalyd can see G5 now. . . You're a young Trakovite Shaper, raised to believe that Shaping is evil and wrong, but trained in it's use for survival. . . But you have always recognized the power inherent in Shaping, the unparalleled power that could be bent to any end. . . You turn on your Trakovite kin and join one of the other sects, eventually slaughtering those who shun Shaping. . .

 

Or you can stay a Trakovite, and run the world into the ground. :p

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