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Sect Reputation and Rewards (Some Spoilers)

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So, Shapers and Rebels both rely on one number to tell if they like you or not. It starts at 100 and changes when you complete most quests and a small number of conversations. Obviously, for many of these you an choose the + or - option but not both. Here's a complete list of the things that can change it:


-5 Shaila dies

-2 Deal with Master Thell for Joakim

-3 Guide Caravan through Cairn Gates

-3 Guide Caravan through Cairn Gates (double?)

-2 Allow Sandia to escape

-2 Free Reiner and tell him to escape

-1 Q: Barbaro

-1 First Research Notes given to Fackler

-1 Lie to Alwan about mission (or refuse to talk)

-2 Q: Mars

-1 Q: Mouawad

-2 Per escaping Servile refugee (?)

-2 Destroy Eliza and report it to Pirik

-2 Destroy Shaftoe and report it to Pirik

-1 Q: Ozyss

-3 Destroy Heart (or return it to Darnor)

-3 Scout Turabi Gate for Darnor

-3 Clear 31st Camp

-2 Help Zorin's Rebels escape

-3 Kill Eliza

-3 Kill Shaftoe

-3 Kill Moseh

-3 Give Monarch's papers to Greta

-2 Betray Archibald to Ellsworth

-2 Contact Vecsey for Ellsworth

-2 Kill Cantor

-2 Kill Tycho

-4 Destroy Shaper camp for Litalia

-3 Free prisoners for Manohla

-3 Kill infiltrators for Ossissess

-1 per trapped rebel who escapes (?)

-1 Pledge escape to trapped rebels

-1 Kill Horis

-1 Q: Greta


+5 Walk Shaila to Forsaken Docks

+2 Betray sinkhole rebels

+1 Report Sinkhole rebels' deaths to Crowley

+2 Betray Burkes to Crowley

+2 Agree with Master Thell

+5 Betray Caravan

+2 Kill Sandia (or convince her to return)

+2 Free Reiner and tell him to return

+1 Q: Barbaro

+1 Tell Alwan about mission

+4 Betray Illya Safehouse to Alwan

+5 Help Moseh and report it to Alwan

+2 Destroy Moseh and report it to Alwan

+2 Show Rebel Papers to Alwan

+2 Q: Mars

+2 Betray Drewry to Kane

+2 Betray Lilly to Kane

+1 Q: Mouawad

+3 Return Heart to Mouawad

+1 Q: Ozyss

+2 Kill Zorin's Rebels

+3 Destroy Mutated Thahd for Eliza

+3 Kill Krazo and Mystithus for Shaftoe

+3 Help Moseh

+2 Kill Nakel

+3 Give Monarch's papers to Miranda

+1 Contact spy for Miranda

+1 Report scout's death to Miranda

+2 Betray Vecsey to Miranda

+2 Let Tycho go

+2 Kill cultists for Krogstad

+2 Sabotage Rebel defenses for Yngrid

+1 Kill trapped rebels at fort

+2 Help Horis shape new Kyshakk

+1 Tell Alwan of meeting with Litalia

+2 Give Drakon specifications to Alwan

+2 Tell Alwan Citadel's location, but no Drakon info

+2 Help all five infiltrators for Koerner

+3 Kill Litalia for Koerner

+2 Tell Kiki about Litalia's papers

+2 Give Rebel Papers to Kiki

+2 Destroy rogue trall for Kantor

+2 Kill chief and shaman for Dameron

+1 Q: Greta

+2 Get scrolls for Dalia


Here's a complete list of the things that are open to you when the number is high or low enough. The second column indicates whether or not Leadership reduces the requirement. "Yes" means it does so on a 1:1 basis, "1/3" means only 1/3 the value of your Leadership is used. As you can see, there are not actually many points that rely on this number:


109+	Yes	Alwan -- Moseh quest (Shaped Breastplate)
105+	Yes	Duncan -- training
105+	No	Mouawad -- 1st reward
112+	No	Mouawad -- 2nd reward (Thirsting Knife)
120+	No	Mouawad -- 3rd reward (Ring of Eye's Purity) (+3 Battle Magic)
120+	Yes	Matala -- lets you go
115+	Yes	Alwan -- Northforge Citadel quest
110+	1/3	Grim -- 1st reward
124+	1/3	Grim -- 2nd reward (Farsight Breastplate)
136+	1/3	Grim -- 3rd reward (Agent's Shelter)
105+	No	Shotwell -- join party

104-	No	Pirik -- Safehouse key
95-	No	Darnor -- 1st reward
88-	No	Darnor -- 2nd reward (Firecaster Gauntlets) (+1 Battle, Blessing Magic)
80-	No	Darnor -- 3rd reward (Girdle of Life) (+2 Endurance)
90-	Yes	Gibbons -- buy canisters
100-	No	Khur -- join party
90-	No	Manohla -- 1st reward
80-	No	Manohla -- 2nd reward (Farsight Breastplate)
68-	No	Manohla -- 3rd reward (Agent's Shelter)
100-	No	Ossissess -- Kill infiltrators quest

N.B.: There are also places in the game where what happens is based on a specific choice you made. This section does not cover those, and they may be important. Perhaps someone who's played through repeatedly can say something about those?


Manohla and Grim give the same rewards. There are a number of other places where the rewards are equal: Alwan and Pirik's reward for the caravan mission, for example, and killing or helping Yngrid. With that as a caveat, here is a list of some of the more interesting quest rewards in the scripts. Some of these might be acquireable by killing someone or looting something instead of talking to them; I'm not sure.


Joakim -- Steel Sword and Shield

Gretchen -- Tinker's Bauble

Fackler -- Gauntlets of Succor

Alwan / Pirik -- Shaped Gauntlets

Kane -- Guardian Stone

Mouawad -- Skein of Wisdom

Pirik -- Shaped Blade (Moseh)

Pirik -- Mindwarp Seal (Eliza) (+2 Mental Magic)

Pirik -- Runed Jade Necklace (Shaftoe) (+1 Spellcraft)

Trianus -- Shaped Belt

Greta -- Mental Focus Charm (+1 Spellcraft)

Stubbs -- Demon's Bile

Jared -- Singing Rapier (+2 QA, +1 Parry, but d4 damage)

Monarch -- Shaper Robe, Armor Band

Yngrid -- Infiltrator's Charm

Litalia -- Puresteel Necklace

Litalia -- Viper's Touch (Shaped Blade w/ Poison Drip)

Ossissess -- Stasis Shield, Puresteel Boots

Koerner -- Polychromous Shield, Blasted Greaves (+1 Str, +2 End)

Koerner -- Spectral Rapier (Litalia) (+2 Parry, +2 Mental Magic, but d4 damage)

Ghaldring -- Puresteel Charm (+1 Str, +1 Damage)

Learned Hartl -- Impervious Band

Szmani -- Projection Belt

Ssaroyen -- Puresteel Shield

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In order to get to Shaper Camp Gamma in Fens of Aziraph (chapter 3) you need Alwan's Pass by doing the Repair Moseh quest. It doesn't matter whether you repair or kill Moseh as long as you report in to Alwan. This also allows you to safely enter the Western Rise.


In order to get through the Eastern Rise you have to report back to Pirik about the Kill Moseh quest.


Having Alwan's Pass allows you to do the quests regarding the spies in each Fens camp and the Refugees quests.

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Terrific list, Slarty. I'm very glad to see this, because I've been very curious what is really affecting what, and how much. I didn't realize how much innocuous conversation also affects your sum (like you said, there is not always an indicator message when your reputation is affected.)


I'm trying to wrap my head around this, because you say both Rebels and Shapers reference this same sum. It seems like I'm able to get the majority of rewards in this game. I am playing slightly pro-Shaper, but now that I am in Burwood, I am shifting toward Pro-Rebel. I helped Eliza, Shaftoe, and Moseh, then killed the first two. I am helping the five Infiltrator Shapers in Burwood, but then killing them. This means a plus two and a minus three, for a net of minus one (slight loss of favor with the shapers overall.)


My number must be 100-110, because it never goes too far in one direction with all the quests I do for both sides. So, what I can't understand is why my reputation is good enough with both to get most rewards. I lost some rewards from Ilya Safehouse due to betraying the caravan and giving the Heart of the Kiln to Mouawad. After that, I've been heading back into more favor with the rebels. It seems like I shouldn't be able to get so many rewards from each side, if I'm hovering in the middle at around 100. Does this really work as you've reported?


I will play another game and do the math with each choice and see where my numbers are at and how it seems to work out. The idea to me is to maximize rewards, quests, experience, and loot from both sides till late in the game. It is also fun to play Truly Loyal to one side or the other, where my PC acts according to conscience and conviction consistently the whole game through. But the overall payoff seems less.




EDIT: Question: I am now playing double-crosser in Burwood, helping the Infiltrators but ultimately killing them and their creations. What I don't know is if I arrive in Poryphra to get my reward for the quest of helping the five, will it matter if I have already killed some of them after finishing the helping part? I'm guessing NO, but I might not be able to kill them all actually. I could be in for a rude awakening too. This seems like a little exploit loophole in the game. I don't like it that your reputation is wholly counted and known by both sides for everything you do in secret. It also seems silly that I can help/kill Infiltrators and still collect reward (so I assume) when they have magically known (at least by reputation) everything else I have done, but seem to have not noticed that I killed the people I helped.

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There are 2 different rewards in Burwood chapter in Poryphra Ruins for helping the infiltrators for 3 and then all 5. I helped the Shapers too much and still haven't lowered my reputation to get the Kill Infiltrators quest. Your current reputation decides the price that Shaper Grim charges for training from pretty average up to exorbitant.


There are several places where you have to help groups of Rebels flee across a zone. Cairns Gate probably gives you for choosing to help the Caravan escape and each of the 7 that made it to leave the Forsaken Lands. West Illya Road has 4 refugees fleeing Loyalist Soldiers and Patrolling Thahds. Western Morass has Rebel prisoners that need to be freed and escorted out, Fort Raevinn has trapped Rebel soldiers and so does Rocky Point. In all of these places you get individual experience for each one that leaves the zone alive.

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Some of the code for fleeing serviles or guards gives experience for each, but is set to only give the reputation change once. I couldn't tell how the Cairn Gates one was set up because it was a few weird-looking nodes in the zone dialogue code itself.


Originally written by Servile Synergy:

I'm trying to wrap my head around this, because you say both Rebels and Shapers reference this same sum. It seems like I'm able to get the majority of rewards in this game.

Did you notice above where I said there are very few times the number is actually referenced? Look at the chart. Grim and Manohla give exactly the same rewards. Also, Darnor's aren't particularly useful rewards.


For some of the quests that depend on you killing someone, you get credit when they die. However, for some of them, you get credit only when you choose the conversation option to tell them you are going to kill them in an overdramatic way.


I may try to update this to include which quests can be performed in only one way or in both ways, and also what all the rewards are and the interaction with passes and other flags.

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Originally written by F'nor:
Alwan hasn't given me the quest to repair Moseh. I've been back to see him and it still hasn't happened. Do I have to betray the Safehouse to him in order to get the quest?
Either that, or have a decent reputation with the Shapers and a few points in Leadership.

However, as far as I can tell betraying the Safehouse has no actual gameplay effects aside from the reputation change and reward.
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In the Burwood Road zone where Yngrid has her lab in the middle, there is one rebel trapped behind one mine. You can save him if your Leadership is high enough. There are four or so refugees stuck in the NE corner of this zone too, who flee to safety when you tell them the mines are safe now.



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You can't find out the number in-game, although Mercedia in the Thellite Colony will tell you if you are above or below 100. You can also go to one of the people who does check the number and see how they react (i.e., Darnor or Mouawad)

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  • 7 years later...

All - sorry for 8-year-necroing this thread; since it's stickied in the Strategy Central section, and I think Slarty's still around, I thought it would be legit to get something clear here. Please don't yell. I'm fragile.


Slarty - in your G4 reputation min-max guide at http://minmax.ermarian.net/g4/g4q.html, you plan a net total of +4 to reputation in Chapter 1 (+2 Let Tycho go; 0 Help Serif's rebels escape; +2 Betray Burkes; -2 Intimidate Master Thell; +5 Walk Shaila to Forsaken Docks; -3 Guide Caravan through Cairn Gates), yet calculate total ending reputation for the chapter at 102. As the player starts the game with 100 reputation, shouldn't the total at the end of the chapter therefore be 100+4 = 104? Since it looks like you're planning to hit exactly 120 rep for the Ring of Eye's Purity, this +/-2 error in the first chapter could throw off my whole munchkiny plan. (I know there are a few extra minor conversation reputation options I could use to tweak the number and still meet the "plan" - with Alwan/Mouawad/Mars etc. - but I'm not sure which direction I'd need to take these without knowing whether the above is really an error.)


Anyway, great work as always - cheers!

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Hi Mikus,


Hmm. Interesting. Yeah, it looks like I added wrong there. No idea if it was a math mistake or if I meant an action to be listed differently. It's been more than seven years since I've actually played G4, I think, so your guess is as good as mine. Good luck whatever you decide to do!

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Thanks for the quick reply! Now that I know the Chapter 1 total is probably off by the 2 points, I can plan to grab an extra -2 from one of the optional conversations to compensate - and thanks to your insanely (in a good way) detailed work, that'll be cake. Peace!


EDIT: Did some more testing (used a +1 conversation option with Mouawad to see how close I was to getting her first "loyalty" reward, which requires 105 reputation), and it turns out Slarty's end-of-chapter reputation subtotals as listed in the min-max guide are in fact correct. So I'm now thinking maybe at least one listed action's reputation effect was overstated by +2 in the guide (i.e. even though the listed guide numbers should total to 104 rep at the end of Chapter 1, you in fact end up with only 102 rep at the end of the chapter after doing all listed actions). Anyway, bottom line, something's off in the Chapter 1 numbers, but it doesn't matter in the long run - if you follow the Slarty guide, you should end up OK in the end. Thanks again.

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Hmm. All of those numbers came directly from the scripts, so I think it's more likely that I left off something that impacts the rep score rather than put the wrong number. But error is a thing too, so who knows!

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  • 2 years later...

This is the second time I'm necroing this thread, but again, it's for a good cause. I'm preparing another playthrough of G4 and again found this discussion about the possible discrepancy in Slarty's excellent guide (see link/discussion above), and from looking through all the game scripts, I've figured out why the reputation in the guide seemed to be off by 2 points: giving Fackler at least one research note in Chapter 2 gives -1 to reputation as listed in the scripts and Slarty's original forum post above (not +1 as listed in the guide), and the Chapter 1 ending total in the guide's "Powergaming" section should in fact be 104 (not 102, due to an apparent math error). The net effect of these two corrections would still leave you with the "powergaming" end-of-Chapter 2 reputation total of 120 in the guide. I just wanted to point this out for reference (whether or not Slarty is interested in correcting the two errors in the guide itself), since this is a stickied topic. Cheers!

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