The opposition[G5]

[Slawbug]

What types of enemies are most numerous / annoying in G5? I am trying to look at the viability of different creation attack types.

[Randomizer]

Jeff pretty much has a zone where each creation type is very common. The worst places though are still the poison, acid, and lightning aura attacks because they linger. Physical attack zones can usually be minimized by retreating to a place where 3 or less can attack.

[Delicious Vlish]

Poison and acid can be near neutralised by having higher endurance.

 

Lightning aura can be cured with magic or by having regeneration cast, as well as a few resist items. (Vital)

[Slawbug]

What about shades, pylons, golems, and other non-creatable enemies with tough attacks and stilted resistances?

[Delicious Vlish]

What about them? What are you asking exactly?

[Slawbug]

Are they a significant factor in G5? In G4, for example, there were enough shades and pylons that you couldn't rely much on cryoas or cryodrayks.

[Delicious Vlish]

If you go with only cryoas or cryodryaks, you will have problems.

 

Best to run with a mixed pack.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Slarty

Are they a significant factor in G5? In G4, for example, there were enough shades and pylons that you couldn't rely much on cryoas or cryodrayks.

I'm a little less than halfway into the game and running with a mixed Cryoa/Vlish team, and haven't really encountered any cold-immune enemies. I'm at the point where I'm really looking to start making higher-tier creations anyway, so I'd say it's pretty safe to use cryoas early on; by the time you find something they can't kill, they'll be just about obsolete.

[Randomizer]

There are two areas early in the game where cryoas don't function effectively, Kratoa Stoneworks with its golems and the Okavano Sea Cave with undead. They have to be moved into melee for their bite attack.

[Delicious Vlish]

Or you use the ALL POWERFUL burning spray spell, which does acid damage. Searer and artillas no longer do acid damage. Which stinks.

 

Seriously people, give clawbugs a try.

[Slawbug]

Plated Bugs actually look like one of the best melee creations this time around, thanks to that AP bonus and the lack of good haste. Their attack is 1-5 like all melee attacks, but they get two of them (and they do cause poison). Improving their damage by one level will do an average of 6 damage extra before armor... it scales faster than almost any attack in the game. I still prefer the consistency of ranged attacks, but they are quite good.

[Delicious Vlish]

Plated bugs do not cause poison damage.

[Slawbug]

You're right, I was misreading the defs.

[Delicious Vlish]

Plated bugs are exceptionally tough though, do excellent damage, and tend to have a fair bit of health.

 

I like to mix them with clawbugs.

 

Did I mention that battle creations are exceptionally good finally?

 

You could finish the game with nothing but dedicated battle shaping quite easily... Especially with clawbugs and rots providing poison and acid damage.

 

Oh, and betas are GOOD.

[Slawbug]

Really?

 

Because unless I'm misreading the defs, Battle ABs still do less damage than Glaahks (-and- don't stun).

[Delicious Vlish]

Glaahks do ALL magic damage and no physical. Against end game magic resistant enemies, they do about 20 to 30 damage per sting. Not much at all.

 

Betas on the other hand, tended to do about 60 to 80 against physically resistant enemies. Considerably more against things with no physical resist.

 

Jeff did something right this time with battle shaping. Please, play the game, don't just look at the tables. Lay the smack down with melee mobs and rejoice.

[Slawbug]

Why in the world would you be using Battle Betas OR Glaahks in the end game?

 

Obviously Glaahks are a poor choice against Wingbolts or whatnot. However, far more enemies resist physical than magical damage. Really though my main point was the Glaahks and Battle Alphas cost the same essence (or used to anyway, nobody's posted G5 costs yet), have attacks with the same damage range, but Glaahks have a significantly higher bonus level with that attack -- meaning they will consistently do more damage against anything that is not a magic creation. (Yes, they WILL do more damage against War Tralls, which resist both attack types.)

 

DV -- if all you want is to play the game, then ALL of these conversations are a waste of time! The differences between the classes are picayune and any set of creations with any build can make it through the game, even on Torment. However, when we are in a state of min-maxing analysis, looking at the tables is the whole point.

[Delicious Vlish]

But the tables do not reflect in game experience.

 

Using betas in the end game works. So do rots and tralls. They are viable now... And this is good info for people who want to play no canister loyal to the shaper types. Betas are one of your best options for a low cost but effective shock troop. Battle alphas aren't bad either, but betas are like immovable rocks. For some reason, they start off at insanely high levels, even with low shaping skill, get a ton of hit points, and they are actually sturdy now.

[Slawbug]

"Viable" and "optimal" are two different things. This is my point. ANYTHING is viable. We are not talking about viable.

 

The base level for an alpha is 20.

The base level for a beta is 26.

The base level for a glaahk is 20.

The base level for an ur-glaahk is 30.

 

So, since you are saying we should put in game experience above tables: how much in game experience do you have with glaahks?

[Randomizer]

I'm running a pair of glaahks in my current mix of creations They are extremely fragile except against a magic attack that they resist better than most. The reason I've kept them for the last 10 levels is that they can stun. There are a few places where that really helps to keep a boss from attacking.

 

For fun my agent created 7 glaahks for the main boss fight in the expert dungeon and the boss never got to attack again. I still had to charm all the summoned creations, but that wasn't too bad.

[Delicious Vlish]

They kinda stink now. The stun isn't as strong as it was in previous games. Still a strong and good creation, but they don't do much damage by the time you manage to get them. At that point, there are better creations available. Unless of course you sneak into an Unbound infested ruin and use the canister, which is right out if you play no canister. So that means you get wingbolts and glaahks at the same time, when you buy them as skills.

 

Glaahks lack the hit points and the defense to stay on the front line, and they get shredded in very little time. You can't go and buff them out the wazoo, as was previous, because of the aura nerf. They are fragile, and require a great deal of baby sitting, because at the point you get them, you are facing enemies quite capable of shredding them to pieces. Drakons, unbound, eye tyrants, servile cultists and warriors, etc.

 

On the other hand, playing as a loyalist, you can get battle alphas rather early. REAL early actually. Early enough to really give you a leg up on your enemies. Early enough to make the stoneworks golems a complete cake walk. Early enough that you can level them for a bit, get the right stuff together, and go in and clean out the unbound infested ruins and get rewards. And then you can get upgraded to beta status with out canisters. (Well, eventually)

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

[samybwoy]

Podlings are the most infuriating foes bar none thankfuly theyre weak against magic damage and by the time you start facing them you should have wingbolts and kyshaks. i find that any creations i have before the storm plains are dispensible and i race to get rhodizons and warthralls which i then keep and level up for the remainder of the game, physical+acid damage is ecsquisite and we all knw that warthralls rock the ultimate versatile team

[Trenton.]

MMXPERT, WOULD YOU STOP BUMPING?