Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 I'll reconsider my "suky-play" tatic if your sure its better the other way around. Does Terror's Marytr still make scenario's despite the fact he's banned from the forums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Yes. He still makes them, though the last one he released was a while ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 He'd probably be more involved if the community was more active. EDIT: Or if he didn't have more important things to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 He's making scenarios. Just you wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 He should update the artifact's hall first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I really don't think that's terribly important... anyone could do those updates just by copy-pasting the code from other scenarios' data files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 What would be the level cap in Blades? And should I start with a low level scenario or does it not matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I'd say start with a low level scenario, because then you can take one party through most of the scenarios in succession. And as far as I know, there's no level cap. There's just a point at which it gets hard to balance anything (which only Exodus even begins to have trouble with, in my opinion). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Originally Posted By: Ephesos I'd say start with a low level scenario, because then you can take one party through most of the scenarios in succession. And as far as I know, there's no level cap. There's just a point at which it gets hard to balance anything (which only Exodus even begins to have trouble with, in my opinion). There's no level cap, or at least not one you'll ever have to worry about: it's possible to have an experience level of over one thousand without the game complaining too much. However, it doesn't seem to be possible to get above level 120 just by killing monsters, since that's the point at which level-100 monsters stop giving experience. Anything above that has to be reached by giving the party experience with scripted calls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 Why exactly is it difficult to balance it? I thought it was just raising the enemy level or giving them special abilities. Am I over simplifying it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Originally Posted By: Ackrovan Why exactly is it difficult to balance it? I thought it was just raising the enemy level or giving them special abilities. Am I over simplifying it? Well, for one thing, as level increases, the difference between a good and a bad character build also increases. A high-level PC that isn't built properly for high-level combat can easily end up with a 5% chance to hit against enemies that a better-optimised character would have a 95% chance to hit against. Bahssikava is a perfect example: everything up to the final boss is quite beatable for a level-50 party, but if you didn't build your party right, the final boss will be just plain impossible to hit. Also, enemy HP scales up faster than characters' ability to do damage. If you just raise a monster's level, you'll end up with a big boring wall of hit points that the party has to spend several rounds bashing their heads against before it dies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody The Lurker Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Eh, balancing super-high-level scenarios shouldn't actually be much harder than balancing "normal" scenarios. It'd be somewhat different, but as Ackrovan said you could just rely on giving the party more powerul items and giving the monsters special abilities. Exodus shouldn't be used as an example, since there are too few high-level scenarios right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 It wouldn't be impossible to make really good high-level combat, but you'd pretty much have to do lots of messing around with the engine and scripted abilities. Standard BoA combat is just not very interesting at high levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Lazarus. Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Custom spells are almost a must for really high level scenarios, because the default spells lose all usefulness. This in itself is quite a chore, and only really suitable to a scenario the size of Exodus. Most of the default creature abilities have already lost all usefulness at this high a level, so you'd have to rely entirely on scripted abilities to mix things up. With these two barriers to entry, it's not surprising that of all the designers to attempt 50+ level scenarios, only TM and Kel have pulled it off. And that's not even mentioning the issues Thuryl brought up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody The Lurker Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Making special spells and abilities is pretty simple (although it *can* get tedious, it isn't nearly as complicated as, say, BoR) and nowhere near as buggy as it was in BoE (remember that San-Racku's special spells could turn allies against you due to an engine bug?). Now, making *good* special spells, that's another story. My current project (scheduled for mid or late 2009, 'cuz I'm slow) has enemies with special abilities, and will have at least two special spells for the player. ...And despite this, it's currently being balanced for parties that have just finished A Small Rebellion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 Whats BoR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Blades of Rogue, a scenario which successfully made a roguelike game out of Blades of Avernum, complete with randomly generating dungeon levels. In my opinion, it's the most technically-complex Blades of Avernum scenario released yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 WHo do you think would be the best at Blades including Exile(except Jeff obviously) And yes I had to ask that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Originally Posted By: Ackrovan WHo do you think would be the best at Blades including Exile(except Jeff obviously) At designing or playing? Either way, there are people much better than Jeff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 Designing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 That one fellow who made a bunch of really great scenarios, and then some buttface tried to plagiarize his work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Originally Posted By: thi'serbated tiulen-formature tiemos Alcritas Alcritas is definitely one of the more oft-cited BoE designers. But the advantage BoE has over BoA in terms of evaluating "the best designers" is that the era of BoE is (mostly) complete, while the field of scenarios in BoA is still growing. We won't know the "best" designers until nobody designs for Blades anymore. That said... the most prolific designers for BoA are TM, Kelandon, Lazarus, Nikki, Smoo, Thralni, and myself. The last three have less published work, but in truth Blades of Avernum has so few scenarios that releasing more than one practically qualifies you to be an old hand by default. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 It isn't really such a small number anymore. Not as many as BoE, but a larger proportion of BoA scenarios are decent quality -- the kind of people who would make a Prazac's Quest or whatever are not going to find the BoA editor very usable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted November 26, 2008 Author Share Posted November 26, 2008 What's the record for the longest scenario? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 The largest BoA scenario is Exodus, which has 59 towns; the largest BoE scenario is Adventurer's Club 3, which has well over 100 towns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted November 29, 2008 Author Share Posted November 29, 2008 Are these scenario's actually larger then the games themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Adventurer's Club 3 is larger than any of the Exile games, yes. Exodus isn't quite as big as the Avernum games, but it's close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted November 30, 2008 Author Share Posted November 30, 2008 Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 according to my copy, AC3 is 6.84 MB (7,177,665 bytes), with everything. The .exs alone is 3128 KB... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted November 30, 2008 Author Share Posted November 30, 2008 *blinks several times* Thats a hell of a lot of memory for a scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Is the 6.84 MB version Mac or Windows? My Windows copy is only 4.50MB in total, the exs file figure is the same for mine: 3,128KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 As for the size of AC3 versus Exile 3, I think the latter is about the same size. My count is: AC3 has 154 towns while E3 has 200 in total. I figure that at least 28 AC3 towns are blank because they all have the same values for their data sizes. While 163 towns in Exile 3 have distinct names. A lot of E3 towns are composed of modules of course. Outdoors. Going by data sizes, 83 AC3 zones are not blank? I figure that nine of the 90 Exile 3 zones are blank. (I don't currently have the data sizes for Exile 3.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody The Lurker Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I *think* (though Thuryl can correct me if I'm wrong) that AC3 having blank towns could be due to the infamous BoE 100 town bug (towns stop working at 100 and start working again at a number I can't remember). I wonder what is the *longest* BoE scenario. Not biggest, longest. At the Gallows sure takes a long while to complete. (Off-Topic : Speaking of ATG, I wonder if the last fight influenced TM when he made Echoes. Caffen-Bok is very Echoes-ish, and Shatter Essence is simply... I don't think even TM made a scenario with a monster that lowers your stats at random.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Caligula has some figures for some scenarios only: http://www.geocities.com/gaiuscatullus/boescen.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Originally Posted By: Ishad Nha Is the 6.84 MB version Mac or Windows? My Windows copy is only 4.50MB in total, the exs file figure is the same for mine: 3,128KB Copied off of Firefox's explorer thingy: Code: File:3AdvClub.bmp 878 KB 5/16/2004 5:33:18 PMFile:3AdvClub.exs 3128 KB 8/30/2004 7:13:34 PMFile:3advclub.meg 2630 KB 11/14/2004 8:01:56 AMFile:AC3 Readme First.txt 7 KB 7/8/2004 9:45:04 AMFile:Side Quests.txt 3 KB 5/24/2004 6:14:00 PMFile:Trainers.txt 2 KB 5/15/2004 11:52:48 AMFile:eastzinlasia.gif 183 KB 10/24/2003 6:19:36 PMFile:westzinlasia.gif 182 KB 10/24/2003 6:29:32 PM I guess the .meg really screws it up, why is that .meg so huge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Originally Posted By: Carrier of Anamzas I guess the .meg really screws it up, why is that .meg so huge? In short, the format used for custom graphics in Macintosh BoX scenarios is not very efficient. (Actually, the format used by the Windows version isn't very efficient either.) AC3 has a whole lot of custom graphics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I don't think the PICT format has any kind of compression, actually. Though, I could be wrong. The BMP format can have compression, I believe – I think it's really just a container format? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Not exactly. BMP is one of the oldest and simplest formats around, and while my quick research suggests that it can have its data in in certain compressed formats, most bmp files around tend not to. Whether it is a container format is a fuzzy issue; I would say that it isn't any more so than PNG, JPEG, or even PICT for that matter, due to the fact that all of these may contain data of different types and possibly using different compression strategies. The PICT format is far more complex (although also old) as it is actually intended primarily as a vector format, but has support for chunks of bitmap data as well, which is how it's being used for graphics in BoA and BoE. Since it wasn't intended for heavy usage in this capacity, PICT does this job rather badly. In many ways I think that the PDF format can be seen as something of a conceptual successor to PICT, and although being newer it has many improved features it has many similarities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Lord Vogel should catch on and use PNG. Small sizes AND Alpha layering. You can't beat that. Well, I guess you could, but please don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Ah, QuickDraw. Those were the days, Edith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Right, the Windows scenario has a 3AdvClub.bmp of 878KB, hence the difference between the two sizes. Now BoE is open source this could be quickly remedied. I wonder how long it would take Jeff to rewrite the BoA source code to change the graphics format, probably not very long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 According to Jeff: Quote: Our games now use OpenGL... Likely all future spiderweb games will benefit from this, but as I understand it he is unlikely to take the time to revisit the older games such as BoA, in part since it would take a good chunk of time to effect the change. (The editor alone has a lot of crufty old quickdraw code, the game itself will be saddled with a significantly greater amount.) However, it looks like he has seized this opportunity to switch to newer and better graphics formats, for instance Geneforge 5 uses Truevision TGA images with transparency (although, also, a peculiar mix of GIF, JPEG, and BMP images as well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Originally Posted By: Ishad Nha Now BoE is open source this could be quickly remedied. As I recall it already has been, in a way. I think someone modified the Mac version so that it can use the BMPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Thralni Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 The cmg file can be huge file, even after compression. I'm putting sounds in it now, which makes the cmg file for TNS a grand 8,1 MB. This could get even bigger as I keep working on it (yes, I do intend to finish it). It'd be nice if Jeff would change it, but frankly, I don't know if I care *too* much about it. It works right now, and it enables me to use custom sounds. The only annoying thing is that you need extra programs to edit it, and since ResEdit doesn't work anymore on OSX, we're screwed. Now you have to buy a $19 program to edit the cmg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I was afraid of that... that means I can't add any custom sound (curse you, intel processor!), unless Niemand adds custom sound capabilities to GraphicAdjuster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I've tried; to call it not easy is a massive understatement. The worst part about having to use deprecated formats and libraries is that it's really hard to get useful documentation. The current APIs don't make this job easy since they have no reason to care, and I can't find good enough explanations so far to make a very good stab at doing it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Originally Posted By: Thralni Now you have to buy a $19 program to edit the cmg. No, there are several free Mac resource editing programs available. And some of them seem to be even better than Resourcerer. Just do a search on SourceForge or something. I believe there are at least three of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 Is anyone planing on making a 3d window's version of the Mac BoA editor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Dahak Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I assume you mean the editor. It has already been created. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 Does increaseing the potion making skill beyond 8 increase the power of the potion? Also, Is there a list anywhere about the requirments for getting a special skill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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