Questons of the Newb about Blades

[Acky]

I've bought Blades and completed the first built in scienario. When I finsh the other three, I'll be making my own scinarios. Care to help a newb with a few tips(like "Don't go past 25 areas" or "Be sure to check spelling twice")? And is there any "Tutorial" to help me get used to editing scripts?

[nikki.]

Firstly, read the BoA docs. The first chapter is a very useful guide for total beginners - it goes over the things you will be using all the time, and it pays to get them right first.

 

Also, check out Kelandon's site. It has lots of good articles, including Erik Westra's cookbook. These will be really, really helpful.

 

Thirdly, play BoA. You won't be able to design until you know how the engine works, and what kind of things will work well within it.

 

Finally - start small. A small scenario, of three or four towns, and one outdoors section might not seem a lot, but it'll show you just what is involved in BoA design, and, you have more chance of finishing that, than the 40-town epic we know you'll want to make eventually.

 

And with that, welcome to the team. If you have any questions, no matter how small, talk to us. Ask here, or email us. Pretty much everybody here will be willing to help you.

[Acky]

Thank you. I'll be checking the Doc's and Kelandons site momentaraly. And I know this dosen't have anything to do with the original question, but is it approprate to make updates for perticularly large scienarios?

[nikki.]

It depends. If it's bug-fixing, sure. If it's adding new material, there's nothing wrong with it, but it's not been done in BoX to my knowledge.

[Ephesos]

I seem to recall that Exodus had some substantial modifications made post-release, but yeah, not much like that has happened. I pondered doing an overhaul of DoK at some point, but I didn't have time.

 

But hey, welcome to the Blades community! As Nikki said, don't be afraid to ask for help. I'm personally on AIM a fair amount, and will help if prompted.

[Enraged Slith]

You also might want to check out the scenario "Settlers" by TM when you're ready to start. I'm pretty sure it was made as a tutorial/"what you should start with" scenario.

 

I'm not nearly as adept of a scripter as the rest of these guys so I have a pretty good grasp of how these things sound to the layman. Just ask me if you're confused about something and I'll try to help clear it up. Have fun.

[Acky]

Thanks for the tips. And don't worry, I won't hesitate to pester you with newby questions Again, competely off topic, but is there any way to expand the 30 Scenario limit? This won't be for a long time but I like to know ahead of time.

[Nioca]

No, but it's technically 40. When you want to switch out scenarios, simply move them to a folder other than "Blades of Avernum Scenarios". For example, I keep almost every scenario to date in a folder labeled "Scenario Archive".

[Acky]

Thanks.

 

There's no point in making another thread so al just ask. I'm alowed to put in stuff like the Anama or the Cicle of Life, right?

[Niemand]

You can if you want; there are no hard rules about what you can or can't put in a scenario.

[Acky]

Originally Posted By: Niemand

You can if you want; there are no hard rules about what you can or can't put in a scenario.

Hard rules? You mean there soft rule? I thought it was just rules?

[Niemand]

You can make a scenario about anything you want; the only possible concern is what other people will think of it. Whether that matters to you is your decision. That being said, it is usually assumed that one will use common sense and good taste when creating a scenario. For failures to do so, see Undead Valley or Shipwrecked. If you can see what's wrong with those, you'll likely do fine.

 

EDIT: Just to be clear; I was talking about the scenario's plot content, rather than use of artistic assets, as mentioned below by Excalibur.

[Callie]

If you use custom graphics people make be sure to credit them somewhere.

[keira]

The Blades Forge has a pretty handy dandy thing for that too. Check it out... http://blades.ermarian.net

[Lazarus.]

If it can be done within the capabilities of the BoA engine, then there is no 'hard rule' against it. Whether it is wise to do so may be up to debate. The general consensus would probably be that creating Martians vs Sliths would be a bad idea, but nothing would be stopping you from doing so. On the other hand, making a scenario where you pilot a martian spaceship across the galaxy might be universally considered a cool idea, but its feasibility is questionable.

 

In the case of your suggestion of the Anama or stone circles, you are well within the boundaries of the engine, and could also fit either into a sensible, enjoyable plot. So I don't think you'd hear objections from anyone.

 

Edit: But to address the more general question, which seemed to be whether using Jeff's canon in your scenario is acceptable: yes it is. Scenarios can completely ignore avernum canon, can incorporate avernum canon, or even directly defy canon. Totally your choice.

[Lilith]

Also, you'd know all of that already if you'd actually played a variety of scenarios, which you should probably do before you start designing.

[Thralni]

Quote:

It depends. If it's bug-fixing, sure. If it's adding new material, there's nothing wrong with it, but it's not been done in BoX to my knowledge.

I did it with WtRM, where I added a town and an introductory sequence post release, including of course bug fixes and the like. So yeah, people do it, but not a lot.

But yeah, I agree with what Thuryl said: first play some scenarios. Not just the ones you got with the game, take some third party scenarios and play those. It'll give you an idea of what people usually do. If you need a good place to find scenarios, I recommend jewels' site (http://www.geocities.com/tracihedlund/boawalkthrough.html).

[Acky]

Thanks for the advice.

 

Am I alowed to add my own cretures(like say an ice dragon) even if they didn't exist in the Avernum World?

[Lilith]

Yes! You are allowed to do whatever you like! You can make a scenario about leprechauns dancing among the rings of Saturn, for all we care! One scenario for Blades of Exile was set in the Star Wars universe and the party were Jedi Knights. Whatever your idea is, it's no weirder than that.

[Acky]

Originally Posted By: Thuryl

Yes! You are allowed to do whatever you like! You can make a scenario about leprechauns dancing among the rings of Saturn, for all we care! One scenario for Blades of Exile was set in the Star Wars universe and the party were Jedi Knights. Whatever your idea is, it's no weirder than that.

...Jedi Nephil's? Sith Sliths? My god, that's glorious! Thanks for clearing that up by the way. I finally got the message I can do anything I want. Please note I don't intend to make a scenario about Martians vs Sliths. That was a joke. And is there anyway to change the name of this topic to "Questons of the Newb about Blades?"

[Callie]

Originally Posted By: Ackrovan

And is there anyway to change the name of this topic to "Questons of the Newb about Blades?"

Yes, click the edit button just below your first post and change the subject in the subject bar.

[Acky]

Thank you.

[Xaiya]

You should also get the BoA 3D editor. It is much better than the 2D one.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Originally Posted By: The Dragon Ackrovan

...Jedi Nephil's? Sith Sliths? My god, that's glorious!

Actually, as I recall, that scenario was very badly done. If you wanted to do a good scenario in the Star Wars Universe, you would need tons of custom graphics, and it had none. And you would also need to find some way to deal with magic, which isn't really suited to the Star Wars universe.

It would probably be easier in BoA, though, since you can have custom abilities... and then you could just disable magic completely...

[Acky]

....or turn magic into the force?

 

I didn't know there was a 3D editor. Yet another thing I have learned.

 

I'm taking Thuryl advice and downloading some scenarios. Though this may be a bit to broad, what would be some of the best/worst scenarios so I know what people did right/wrong?

[nikki.]

Read some reviews here: http://forum.nethergate.net/index.php?s=b7f792ea72e18dec16bb4220b09b392d&showforum=31

 

That'll give you at least some idea of what scenarios are good, and which are stinkers.

[Callie]

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel

And you would also need to find some way to deal with magic, which isn't really suited to the Star Wars universe.

What about that guy in the sixth episode that shoots lighting bolts?

[Celtic Minstrel]

Originally Posted By: Ackrovan

....or turn magic into the force?

The thing is, many of the magic spells in Avernum don't translate well into Force moves.

Originally Posted By: Excalibur

What about that guy in the sixth episode that shoots lighting bolts?

Well, yeah, that could be one of your spells.

Actually, come to think of it, you could do it – but you would have to tightly control just what spells are available to the player.

In BoE it's not possible because all the spells up to level three are automatically known (and there's nothing you can do about it), but I forgot that BoA doesn't have that problem.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel

In BoE it's not possible because all the spells up to level three are automatically known (and there's nothing you can do about it), but I forgot that BoA doesn't have that problem.

Actually, if your scenario uses a premade party, the character editor can be used to remove the party's low-level spells. I did this for Roots; I'm not aware of any other scenarios that do it. It seems to be slightly buggy, though.

[Celtic Minstrel]

I heard they randomly reappeared or something...

 

And there's probably no way to add them back, either.

 

(Though there will be, if OBoE ever gets anywhere...)

[Acky]

Has anyone brought characters from the Avernum series into their scenario?

[Celtic Minstrel]

I think so.

[Ephesos]

Yes. See Bahssikava.

[Acky]

Thats the prelude to exodus from Kelandon, right?

[Dintiradan]

Bahssikava was designed and released before Exodus, which would make Exodus a sequel.

[nikki.]

Also, [don't] check out UV for an appearance from Rentar-Ihrno.

[Acky]

Shudders I've been trying to play that scenario....It's like a 7 year old made it.

[Callie]

You're actually trying to play it? I nearly yanked the cord out of the wall a minute after I entered the scenario!

[nikki.]

It gets better if you replace it with "Twilight Valley".

[Acky]

I want to play it so I know what not to do. What's the point of spending so much work on something if nobody likes it? The acceptance of my peers in this regard is immaculately important

[Lazarus.]

I've heard atrocious scenarios, like Foul Hordes and Undead Valley, referred to as good lessons for designers to see what not to do. Seriously? I have poor hopes for the person who doesn't immediately know that mazes, barney dragons, and towns full of bread are all bad ideas. This shouldn't have to be expounded on, it should be basic knowledge.

 

Just a rant, not directed at you in particular, Ackrovan. People-- play good scenarios to see what you should do, not crap to see what not to do. You don't look at a first grader's finger paintings to see how not to paint, and you don't subject yourself to the [censored] that is UV to learn how not to design.

[Lilith]

To be fair, it's not immediately obvious that a well-designed town should contain no bread.

[The Lurker]

To be fair, it's not necessarily true that a well-designed dungeon should have no mazes.

 

See Roots and Nethergate, for example. I personally think a maze now and then doesn't hurt (although I would never see it as a requirement to have a good scenario).

[Lilith]

The mazes in Roots would have been more tolerable if I'd put one after each dream sequence instead of sticking them all in at once.

[The Lurker]

Still, due to the very nature of the mazes, I think they're just fine. Not having the mazes together would IMHO have reduced the surrealism in the dreams : "you sense the bitter taste of Bloodroot in your mouth/you see blackness/you smell sweat, blood and decay" and so on.

[Lazarus.]

Are you actually objecting, or just being contrary?

[The Lurker]

The former, I think. Maybe a bit of both.

 

Seriously, I don't know what's the deal with mazes. I would probably strongly dislike a scenario where every dungeon would be a maze, but a good maze now and then? Not so much. There are ways to make mazes more interesting than mere twisting halls.

[Lazarus.]

Nothing wrong with "Twisting confusing dungeons, which may be designed with the intention of getting the player lost." Nothing wrong with towns containing bread-- even towns containing exclusively bread. Nothing wrong with.... alright I still say no Barney dragons.

 

The point was that simply "not doing what UV does" isn't a useful guideline for good design. UV has wildly overpowered monsters, and lots of them. Does that mean including high level monsters is a cardinal sin? Hardly, although some have said that these type of monsters "don't work," for balance reasons. Instead of suffering through UV and learning nothing, why not play Exodus (which you can say what you want about, but is certainly the only well balanced scenario for high level parties) and decide for yourself?

 

UV has terrible town design as well, Warrior's Grove and the maze probably being the best examples of this. But looking at shitty towns doesn't help you make good ones. Play a scenario by TM or Ephesos and see what good town design looks like, and you may have to go back to BoE if you want to see a legitimate maze.

 

As for barney dragons, vahnatai, and bread towns-- you probably aren't going to find a good scenario to teach you how to include those things. But it CAN be done, and seeing how UV came up short isn't going to teach you how to do it right.

[The Lurker]

Well, I'll admit I kind of forgot most of the rest of the thread when I replied to your post. My mistake.

 

And you're absolutely right - I think playing excellent, technically impressive scenarios is far more likely to teach you how to design well than playing buggy, unbalanced scenarios.

[Ephesos]

Originally Posted By: Lazarus.

Play lots of scenarios.

What he said.