Ideal party setup?

[xenogears]

So I had a pretty standard party setup that I used for a very long time without questioning it much. It worked for all of the Exile trilogy and most scenarios, but when I finally stopped to think about it I realized it was far from ideal. It was typically 3 fighters (2 ambidextrous blade users and 1 polearm user), 2 mages, and 1 priest. One of the fighters was a slith and one was a neph; the rest were human. Casters took Magically Apt, obviously. The only drawback I ever took was Frail.

 

Reading some other people's posts I get the sense that I can do a lot better than that. For starters, it makes no sense to have a dedicated mage/priest because you will want to put as much as possible in mage and priest spells at the beginning for free SP. (I usually find room for 7 of one and 5 of the other, though I think I could get 7/6 if I sacrificed even more int). It seems as though others like taking only sliths (because the XP penalty just comes out in the wash eventually) and almost every positive trait.

 

Also, what's the consensus about the right amount of strength for a caster? I know that the bare minimum is 4, and you want to get it asap to maximize hit points, but do people generally take it even higher than that? And I've also heard some people say fighters don't need much dexterity. I always capped both strength and dexterity at 20 for fighters, but many claim you never need more than 10 dex - what is the general opinion on this? Actually, are there other noteworthy things to mention about stat point allocation in general? Aside from a caster's strength I typically raised *anything* I was using to 20. And is archery *ever* any good? I found it to be incredibly useless every time I tried to put points in it, but maybe I am missing something?

 

I typically liked to keep my XP per level hovering around 120-130, but it seems like many people were content with splurging on positive traits and getting up to around 200. For someone who is playing a massive scenario, or the original trilogy, what would you consider to be the best part setup, in terms of race, traits, and role (caster/melee/etc?) How much does the XP penalty *really* wind up mattering? Should I get as many positive traits as possible? Should I be using more/less melee?

 

Any tips are appreciated.

[keira]

Well, I personally use a singleton with quite a few of the good traits, and no bad traits, this results in some tough times in scenarios, but this is what I have to say through multiton experience:

 

Spellcaster STR: 4 is good. Increase if you want more cargo capacity.

 

Dexterity: I always have my dexterity 2 higher than my strength for warriors, for spellcasters i don't remember.

 

Experience: I have not found a noticeable difference in level gain whatsoever.

 

I will post again later if I remember anything else.

[Lazarus.]

I don't buy many levels of dexterity/weapon skills, at least not until strength and assassination are maxed, and even then luck gets preference.

 

As for penalties, I don't know. My two warriors do 90% of the killing, so they always are far ahead in level and could probably afford to have some extra traits. My casters though don't kill much. I think they were around 30 when I beat E3, and even my most powerful BoE party doesn't have level 50 casters. So they probably couldn't take extra bonuses.

 

Archery is worthless. I think the only passable bow I've ever found was some ridiculously broken bow from Echoes, but if you're using TM items you're pretty much a god party so at that point party build doesn't matter.

 

4 strength seems pretty solid. If you can afford a few extra points early then even better, but I wouldn't bother with it later in the game.

[xenogears]

Originally Posted By: Lazarus.

I don't buy many levels of dexterity/weapon skills, at least not until strength and assassination are maxed, and even then luck gets preference.

Assassination and luck before weapon skills? Wow, I always thought 20 in your relevant weapon skill was a must.

I guess I should be messing around with the character editor and seeing how it affects hit % and whatnot.

[Sarachim]

Even 10 dexterity is too much. I never go above 5, and leave it at 1 for my casters. If you keep your fighters blessed, they will rarely miss after the first few levels. The same goes for weapon skill- it only affects to-hit, not damage, so anything above 5-ish is a waste.

 

Unless the scenario you're in contains awesome custom ranged weapons, archery is worthless.

 

Put the points you save on dex and weapon skills into Luck. If you have some luck, then any time you would die you have a chance of "lucking out" and surviving. With 20 luck, this chance is something like 75%. (Very rough estimate. I've never tested it carefully.)

 

I usually start caster strength at 4 and raise it to 8 or so gradually. This may not be ideal, but it does usually mean that my casters have enough HP to survive whatever stay blows they wind up taking.

 

As for advantages/disadvantages, it depends what sort of player you are. If you're a powergamer who doesn't mind levelgrinding to make up for exp pentalties, then you should definitely play all Sliths with lots of advantages. If you're more casual, or prefer to go fast, then your original approach is a good one too. The difference in your party's power at level 50 is not dramatic.

 

EDIT: Whoops, Lazarus beat me to most of this. GMTA

[xenogears]

Originally Posted By: Sarachim

Even 10 dexterity is too much. I never go above 5, and leave it at 1 for my casters. If you keep your fighters blessed, they will rarely miss after the first few levels. The same goes for weapon skill- it only affects to-hit, not damage, so anything above 5-ish is a waste.

Is hit % compared to the armor value of monsters in order to determine whether your swing connects or not? I've never known what the math was for that, but even with 20 dex, 20 str and 20 weapon skill, I very frequently found that I would whiff against monsters once their armor went into the 25-35 range. Am I going to miss noticeably more with only 5 dex and weapon skill?

And yes, blessing my fighters is a given for any major fight, but I tend to not want to bless fighters up just for one or two random monsters that I've stumbled across during a dungeon crawl.

Originally Posted By: Sarachim

As for advantages/disadvantages, it depends what sort of player you are. If you're a powergamer who doesn't mind levelgrinding to make up for exp pentalties, then you should definitely play all Sliths with lots of advantages.

Well, I generally try and do *everything* that's in the scenario, but I would never grind on wandering monsters to make up for an xp penalty. So if I could *make* it to level 50 with positive traits just playing the game and exploring everything there is to explore I'd gladly do it; otherwise I'd be very hesitant.

[Paroxysm]

Honestly, when was the last time you had a tough fight in BoE? Sure, you can have long and annoying fights but that just comes down to attrition, not skills. As long as you have someone with maxed Priest and a big vat of spell points you can make any party work in any fight. (And that's for hard battles, parties in easier scenarios can ease off on the priestliness.)

 

That being said, I follow a pretty standard formula:

 

-Slith fighter with polearms. Focus on strength, health, weapons, dexterity.

---Gets Toughness, Recuperation, Highly Alert, Good Constitution, Exceptional Strength.

 

-Nephil Thief/Archer with bows. Focus on lockpicking, disarming, dexterity, health, weapons.

---Recuperation, Highly Alert, Good Constitution. Stuck with Woodsman and Cave Lore. (Haven't seen any non-Vogel scenarios that need them which is kinda weird.)

 

-Human Mage. Focus on mage, spell points, mage lore, intelligence, health.

---Recuperation, Highly Alert, Good Constitution, Magically Apt.

 

-Human Priest with maces. Focus on priest, spell points, intelligence, health, weapons.

---Recuperation, Highly Alert, Good Constitution, Magically Apt.

 

But that's just me. I don't sit there with a calculator trying to figure out the best and most efficient way to build my game characters. If I wanted to do that I'd play Dungeons & Dragons. (128-sided dice are cool.)

[Robsta]

In Exile (and most of Vogel’s other games), armour does not determine how often you are hit, but how much damage you do. Therefore, a heavily armoured monster will be able to shirk of a good fighter with a bad weapon most of the time.

In BoE, it isn’t required to fight wandering monsters until your level is 50, because there are so many scenarios. If you only gain a few levels in one scenario, you can always gain a few more in the next without the boring long waits and pointless battles.

Archery is not useless! If you add a few buffs to your arrows (say poison, exploding arrows, arrows of life, etc.) you can do quite a bit of damage. Archers are good at picking off monsters with low armours or martyr’s shielded monsters. Also, giving a fighter some archery ability can give it a free attack every round. (As characters have 4 move points, and it only costs 3 to shoot a bow.)

That said, I don’t usually use standard parties, I had enough of them in the Exile trilogy. Instead, my three most powerful parties include two singletons at level 50 and an all fighter party at about level 30. These aren’t the easiest parties to win with, but I like a challenge. I prefer to give characters more of a personality than turning them into killing machines.

[Tonweya]

I doubt there is such a thing as an, "Ideal Party", because everyone has different ideas on how to play each scenario at different times, however...

In feel that to 'cover all the bases', I use a Party of two Fighters, two Priests and two Mages. The Fighters use Edged Weapons, the Priests use Bashing Weapons and the Mages use Archery, although the Priests' and Mages' primary power is their Spellcasting. The Weapons abilities are only utilized if a Scenario makes it necessary.

All the Attributes are evenly distributed as evenly as possible, as are Mage Lore, Alchemy and Item Lore.

At the beginning of any Scenario, the Fighters do the fighting with the Priests blessing them and the Mages hastening them.

This is obviously a 'bland' way of playing, but as a Scenario unfolds, it allows me to adjust the Party as to the requirements of the Scenario. Also, I am only a mediocre player and spend a LOT of time searching areas. I need time to deal with the Scenarios and any help I can find along the way.

Lastly, once I've played a Scenario through, or at lest for the majority of it, I'll play it again with the style of Party that seems most appropriate. Better yet, play any good scenario with several different Party Styles. That's a beneficial learning experience.

me

[Prince of Kitties]

Originally Posted By: Sarachim

Even 10 dexterity is too much. I never go above 5, and leave it at 1 for my casters. If you keep your fighters blessed, they will rarely miss after the first few levels. The same goes for weapon skill- it only affects to-hit, not damage, so anything above 5-ish is a waste.

That's interesting... Maybe I'll try a new singleton based on this strategy. I figured dexterity and especially weapons skills mattered more, but then, I tend to keep my characters blessed to the gills.

Quote:

Unless the scenario you're in contains awesome custom ranged weapons, archery is worthless.

Amen. Same with thrown weapons, unless they have interesting effects like lightning or explosions.

Quote:

Put the points you save on dex and weapon skills into Luck. If you have some luck, then any time you would die you have a chance of "lucking out" and surviving. With 20 luck, this chance is something like 75%. (Very rough estimate. I've never tested it carefully.)

It's 5% per level of luck, IIRC, so a PC with max luck has a 95% chance of surviving a lethal blow. Although I've noticed that higher damage attacks seem more likely to kill my high-luck PCs, so that may not be all there is to it.

Quote:

As for advantages/disadvantages, it depends what sort of player you are. If you're a powergamer who doesn't mind levelgrinding to make up for exp pentalties, then you should definitely play all Sliths with lots of advantages. If you're more casual, or prefer to go fast, then your original approach is a good one too. The difference in your party's power at level 50 is not dramatic.

One advantage everyone should be able to forego is Toughness, which literally blocks only 1 HP of damage. Aside from potentially preventing the embarassment of Death By Vampire Bat, it's worthless.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Miramor

It's 5% per level of luck, IIRC, so a PC with max luck has a 95% chance of surviving a lethal blow. Although I've noticed that higher damage attacks seem more likely to kill my high-luck PCs, so that may not be all there is to it.

I've seen characters with 7 luck survive 5 hits in a row on several occasions. There's definitely something funny going on with the probabilities.