Kyshakk Koan Tcheedchee Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 A safe way of loosing precious things like scrolls, is to use them in a fight, - which on the other hand is the most reasonable way to use them! But one can't safe during battle! So if the scroll doesn't show the desired effect, you'll have to do the fight all over again, just because of not wanting to waste the scroll…?!?. I'm sure many will agree, that you won't do that, if the fight works well in all the other respects, and/or if the fight seems rather boring and you're just happy to get it over with. (Sorry, Jeff, there are a few which I find a bit boring. At least the way they turn out for me…) What interests me most about scrolls at the moment is, if it makes sense to use Mindshield in the fight against the soultaker? I mean, I save before the beginning of the fight, so it doesn't hurt so much to use the scrolls and do the fight over again. Click to reveal.. I tried the fight with and without Mindshield and I'm never able to figure out, if it makes a difference to use the Mindshield Scrolls or not. The fight doesn't seem to turn out worse without Mindshield. The only thing that seems to work quite well is my priest's Unshakle Mind. But I'm always wondering if it's a good idea to use up all my priests energy with casting unshackle mind. It drains too much magical energy. Maybe my strategy for the whole fight is wrong… Maybe, if I played it differently, it would be more interesting… At the moment I find it rather boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Zummi Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Bad idea. The Soultaker fight is one of the more ingenious fights in A5. You HAVE to BEAT some sense into your possessed PC. I do mean BEAT. Hit them. Melee, arrows, magic. Just hit them, until the Soultaker possesses another one, then repeat the process. After a while of this, the Soultaker will stop messing with you and some shades appear. Kill them, and the Soultaker will finally appear. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Tcheedchee Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 Strange world… thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 During beta testing I spent hours unshackling minds only to find out that it was all for naught. Just don't let any of your characters die otherwise you will have to raise them for the next part if you still can. This is one fight that defies commonsense for players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Synergy Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I doubt most players are able to figure out what's going on in this fight by themselves. It may be a little too clever for our own good. Maybe Jeff should have thrown a dialog box at some point saying, "You notice the look of the Soultaker in your possessed party member's face. You feel a strong urge to attack it there." -S- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Tcheedchee Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 Yeah, I might have gotten that hint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Evnissyen Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Yes, but a little more subtlety than that would be nice, I think. After all: Why include battles that require clever strategy if you're only going to tell the player the answer? That said: I myself only got through the fight after I read what the key was. Maybe if there was that flitting glint like I think there was in another fight (Moref I think? ...I'd actually missed the flitting glints there so I didn't get the strategy, therefore the fight ended up being a very, very long one)... except that the light should be a little more noticeable? Maybe then -- the flitting light being interpreted as the probable signifier of possession rather than charm -- a clever player could quickly figure out, after finding that repeated unshackles didn't gain him/her any headway, that beating the character, ogre-style, would be the better strategy? ...Which makes me wonder... how do singletons get through that battle? Does the soultaker even bother possessing singletons if it has nobody to fight by possessing you? Yeah, and the Moref battle (if that's what it was)... I suppose the flitting light should've been more noticeable, there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Zummi Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 A singleton Soultaker fight is a lot quicker. Not easier, quicker. You'll instantly go to the divine(?) shades fight. Then, onward to the big fight itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Moref is easier for singletons because you stand in a corner and the servants cluster so you can see them all at once to spot that quick flicker that denotes Moref moving. With larger groups the servants spread out and it's harder to see most of them on the same screen. Soultaker is a cakewalk for a singleton. No possession and the vengeful shades are the hardest part for a few rounds. Soultaker wasn't even a challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Tcheedchee Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Evnyssen, How about suggesting a level-oriented hint-strategy to Jeff for the design of his next Avernums? For level easy he gives the hint, which Synergy suggested above. For normal he omits some of the very obvious ones and so on… You have to take into account, that there are players much less experienced than you are. For me the difference between an "Ogre-style" fight and a more subtle one is often only slight. I can see, how fights get much easier and end earlier, as soon as I have figured out the right strategy. I had that in "Endurance" for example, but still my PCs had to endure a lot of beating, before they succeeded. The effects of fitting strategies took a while to show. And I'm already playing on easy… There are many fights which are not so obviously different from 'ogre beatings'… Lysstak for example… You have to figure out which beating you'll give him in which order, but furthermore it's just a beating… Same with the shades of the damaged pylon. Beside finding out, that you better hit the vanathai-sentinel's shades instead of himself, and which is vulnerable to which attack, you'll just have to beat them up. Also there are so many moments, where I'd like to choose a totally different strategy than to beat/kill at all. But ever so often, there are no options for even subtler strategies aside from how to beat whom at all… There were quite a lot of creatures, I would have preferred not to kill, because it made no sense to me. I did have to return quite often, to do so, to be able to continue the game. Tchee… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Evnissyen Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Hmm... It might be really interesting if there were a 'hints' option that affected the dialogue and dialogue boxes... you could set it to high, medium, or low... but I'd hate for that to be tied to the gameplay difficulty. Yes, I think I like that idea. On a similar note (well, I was reminded), I think I posted a suggestion a while ago that there should be an option to turn off the tutorial, so that when players who are familiar with the game system start a new game, they don't have to endure all those dialogue boxes popping up to explain to you how to do things you already know how to do. That should be pretty simple to program in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 That's a very nice idea, that: instead of ingame hints, an ingame hint level that you can choose. That way the hints can be worked into the game more smoothly, simply as extra dialog entries. Should be quite easy to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Rowen Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Quote: I have completely redone the tutorial system. I think experienced players will be very happy with it now. - Jeff Vogel This is from the Geneforge 5 update in March but I believe that we can see the same redone tutorial system in Avernum 6. EDIT: FIxed a "[" for the quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Evnissyen Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Oh. I'm embarrassed now. But in my defense: I missed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody txmimi Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 I have devoted 35 minutes to this portion of the soultaker quest without ever breaking out of the cycle of possession, beating that one, possession, beaing that on, rinse and repeat ad infinitum. What does it take to break out of the cycle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 It should end after enough damage is done, but you don't want a party member to die so I swapped to the weakest weapon for each character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody txmimi Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Well, I'll try again, but no one is getting much damage. . . guess I could take off some armor or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I did enuf damage with fists and had ~best armors/robes what was possible to get at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody txmimi Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I've been at it for 40 minutes this go around and still just beating on each other round after round. There's very little damage being done to anyone. . . most of the text says things like missile misses, or character x misses. . . Very aggravating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 you have low to hit % so in that case strip your party naked and try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody txmimi Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I tried stripping them naked except for a weapon. . . still no damage being done. Then I stripped away every single thing, including weapons, and still no damage being done. This is my second playthrough and I don't remember having this problem before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 What are your characters' stats and skills? Also, what difficulty level are you playing on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody txmimi Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I have a melee fighter, level 23, with 14 skill points in melee. There's an archer at level 21, archer skills 12. A priest is level 22, with 9 points in bows and 21 in priest. And a mage at level 23, with 5 points in bows, 6 points in thrown missiles, and 16 in mage spells. I'm playing easy difficulty level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Yeah, those are some pretty low offensive skills for that level, especially if you haven't also invested in Blademaster and Sharpshooter. Did you invest a lot in Dexterity and Defense? That plus the low offense would explain why you're missing a lot. Try dialling the difficulty level up for that fight, maybe? Higher difficulties seem to increase the damage you take from all sources. If all else fails, it's a completely optional fight so you can just leave it for now and get on with the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody txmimi Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I have very little invested in dexterity and defense. I will try a higher difficulty level. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody txmimi Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 That finally did it! Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 that's good and for now on invest more to melee and strength on fighters and casters should invest mostly to mage/priest skill and intelligence and health not forgetting magery, magical efficiency and spellcraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody txmimi Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Appreciate the tips! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 not forgetting health for fighters (glass cannons are bad). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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