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Reputation system in BoA?


Lancer

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There are a ton of things I would implement with any reputation system. For instance, for each "region" (a city and its outlying areas), I'd give a number of days before word of your actions in one region passes to another region, and maybe even an amount of time before word of your actions passes to the region itself.

 

Plus, I might actually add modifiers. For instance, a "violence" reputation that might make you unpopular with religious types. Or a "cruelty" modifier that will make you MORE popular with the particularly evil. But that depends on what you're aiming for.

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Quote:
Originally written by Keto-san:
Plus, I might actually add modifiers. For instance, a "violence" reputation that might make you unpopular with religious types. Or a "cruelty" modifier that will make you MORE popular with the particularly evil. But that depends on what you're aiming for.
In a scenario with a very heavy emphasis on politics and interpersonal interaction, I can think of at least three independent kinds of reputation that matter. One is your reputation for honesty (whether you can be trusted to keep your word and not manipulate others), one is your reputation for morality (what means you'll countenance to achieve your aims), and one is your reputation for competence (whether you've actually shown yourself to be capable of achieving anything).

Obviously, all of these will affect different people's opinion of you in different ways, and a high reputation isn't always better. For example, being known as a ruthless tyrant (low morality) will certainly make you some enemies, but it may also intimidate people into giving you assistance. Likewise, a potential rival might not want to ally with someone he judged to be too competent (too much of a threat), but he probably won't want a completely incompetent ally either. A reputation for honesty is generally a good thing, but telling the truth can make enemies too, and keeping a promise may prove to be more difficult than it appeared at the time you made it.

Are there any major categories of reputation that this threefold classification is missing? This is of more than academic significance for me, since I'm planning to make a scenario at some point (possibly for BoA, more probably for Pyg) in which the PC is a feudal lord.
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I've recently thought about a reputation system for a scenario with two sides. In it there are two kinds of reputation: one describes which one of the different sides you support, and the other is some kind of a general respectability (or whichever is the right word for that), which is harder to gain but makes you more liked by everyone. The general reputation can negate the other reputation for the those who would otherwise dislike you.

 

The general reputation is gained mostly through side missions, and the other reputation is gained automatically by advancing plot to a certain direction.

 

(Or has someone already made something like this? I haven't played the newer BoA scenarios.)

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Good points, Khoth. Etiquette and allegiances both obviously have to be important (especially allegiances -- a faction you've been fighting for half the game shouldn't be eager to help you, unless maybe you offer to stop beating them up if they do).

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The honesty and morality reputations remind me of DnD allignments. Honesty is Lawful - Chaotic dimension and morality is Good - Evil dimension. I don't think I've seen the corresponding behaviors codified into the engine before, but it might work.

 

As for having 5 or more separate reputation types, unless you are going to make social interaction a major part of your scenario (and make the scenario sufficiently large), it's going to feel like an overkill. In a smaller scenario it might be easier to just keep track of how well-liked you are by each major character/faction.

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But if reputation is scripted ourselves, wouldn't it just be shown as comments on the text window? Can it be scripted so that it shows as a permanent stat on the character sheet just like the Avernum trilogy did?

 

BTW, these are all very good ideas for reputation. I plan on remaking some AD&D modules so I would probably need at least two different types of reputation taking into account the the morality and law axes of AD&D alignment rules.

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It would only be message alerts in the text areas. Unless you make a special ability that, when used, gives you a dialog box telling your reputation (As Kelandon suggested I think.) I suppose you could get snazzy and have different NPC's tell you what your status is in different areas. (Ex. Ask a servant of the household what your servants think of you. Ask a merchant how your fame has been spreading etc.)

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Quote:
Originally written by Lancer:
But if reputation is scripted ourselves, wouldn't it just be shown as comments on the text window?
Yes.
Quote:
Can it be scripted so that it shows as a permanent stat on the character sheet just like the Avernum trilogy did?
No. Hence the need to create a special ability so that you can see your reputation whenever you want.
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Running into another little problem..

In regards to treating reputation as a special ability.. How do you go about defining it as such?

 

I guess I am a little confused on how to use the custom ability calls...

 

This is what I have so far:

 

beginscenarioscript;

 

variables;

short i;

body;

 

beginstate LOAD_SCEN_STATE;

init_special_abil(1, "Reputation", 10);

break;

 

....

 

beginstate 10;

get_custom_abil_uses(who_used_custom_abil(), 1);

change_custom_abil_uses(who_used_custom_abil(),1,-1);

print_str("Your Reputation is");

append_number(i);

break;

 

Am I even on the right track?

 

-I am actually not too sure how to use the change_custom_abil_uses call.

 

-Secondly, I would imagine I need a way for "i" to increment as the party's deeds increases their reputation.

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Quote:
Originally written by Lancer:
get_custom_abil_uses(who_used_custom_abil(), 1);
change_custom_abil_uses(who_used_custom_abil(),1,-1);
The first line is unnecessary and should be removed, the second line should look like this,
change_custom_abil_uses(who_used_custom_abil(),1,1);
Otherwise once a character uses the ability once he won't be able to use it again.
And as TM said, just use print_big_str to print the flag you are using.
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Okay.. This is what I have now:

 

beginscenarioscript;

 

variables;

short i;

body;

 

beginstate LOAD_SCEN_STATE;

init_special_abil(1, "Reputation", 10);

break;

 

....

 

beginstate 10;

i=4;

change_custom_abil_uses(who_used_custom_abil,1,1);

print_big_str("Your Reputation is", i, "dude");

break;

 

------------------------------------------------

 

Unfortunately, I am still not getting a special ability icon to pop up for the PCs to utilize. Where do I go from here? Thanks.

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beginscenarioscript;

 

variables;

short rep;

body;

 

beginstate LOAD_SCEN_STATE;

init_special_abil(1, "Reputation", 10);

change_custom_abil_uses(0,1,1);

change_custom_abil_uses(1,1,1);

change_custom_abil_uses(2,1,1);

change_custom_abil_uses(3,1,1);

break;

 

....

 

beginstate 10;

rep = get_flag(x,y); //This would be the flag you are using to keep track//

change_custom_abil_uses(who_used_custom_abil,1,1);

print_big_str("Your Reputation is", rep, "dude");

break;

 

That should work.

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I appreciate your help, Lazarus!

 

So then all I need to do is add the following statement everytime the PCs do something to increase (or decrease) their reputation:

 

get_flag(x,y) = get_flag(x,y) + z

//where z is the increase (or decrease) in rep due to the deed and x,y are the coordinates of the reputation SDF.

 

I am just a little confused about the syntax for the change_custom_abil_uses flag.. Why is it used in two circumstances (in beginstate and LOAD_SCEN state)?

 

Is it because in LOAD_SCEN the change_custom_abil_uses statements there are where the special abilities are actually defined for all PCs... Whereas the actual execution of the ability is in the beginstate?

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Quote:
Originally written by Lancer:
I appreciate your help, Lazarus!

So then all I need to do is add the following statement everytime the PCs do something to increase (or decrease) their reputation:

get_flag(x,y) = get_flag(x,y) + z
//where z is the increase (or decrease) in rep due to the deed and x,y are the coordinates of the reputation SDF.
That's not how you modify a SDF. The correct syntax for what you want to do is:

inc_flag(x,y,z);

Quote:
I am just a little confused about the syntax for the change_custom_abil_uses flag.. Why is it used in two circumstances (in beginstate and LOAD_SCEN state)?
It's called in the LOAD_SCEN_STATE to give you the ability in the first place. It's called when you use the ability in order to "recharge" your uses of it. (So every time you use it, you get an extra use of it, so you never run out.)
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The basic idea is this:

 

Characters have a set number of uses of any special ability at any given time. (That is, they can use them one time, two times, three times, whatever.) For custom special abilities, that number starts at zero.

 

You really ought to put the four change_custom_abil_uses calls in the START_SCEN_STATE, not the LOAD_SCEN_STATE, so that each character gets one use of the ability when the scenario begins. At that point, each character has one use.

 

When the special ability is used, the number of uses decreases by one. At that point, whoever used the ability has zero uses left (because he/she had only one use to begin with).

 

Then the state runs, and the change_custom_abil_uses in state 10 gets called. That gives the user one more use. At this point, all characters have one use again, so any of them can use the ability again.

 

Play with this for a while and it will make sense.

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One more kind of reputation might simply be degree of celebrity: how much common people seem to have heard of you, whether for good or ill or neither. Related to this, 'secrecy' could be another modifier like TM's 'cruelty'. Spectacular deeds in public might be known by everybody, but some people might be able to discover even deeds the player tried to conceal, so one might have violently contradictory reputations among peasants and police captains.

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Another way to deal with reputation is to have two types: A General Reputation which reflects what the world in general thinks about your PCs and a Town Reputation which mirrors how a given town in your world views your characters.

 

These town reputations would differ from town to town since some side quests the PCs may go on may be only directly relevant to the town at hand and have no global or regional significance. Divvied up in this way, it is very possible to have a scenario in which one town may hate your guts whereas in another your PCs are beloved.

 

The Fallouts (particularly 2, IIRC) which undoubtedly inspired many gameplay and character creation elements in the Avernum series, approached reputations in this way more or less.

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Quote:
Originally written by Lancer:
The Fallouts (particularly 2, IIRC) which undoubtedly inspired many gameplay and character creation elements in the Avernum series, approached reputations in this way more or less.
Not particularly true. Avernum is based off of Exile, which was around 2 years before Fallout. (Avernum, for instance, adds precious few stats that weren't actually in Exile. It also uses a system which works in 5% increments ala D&D, whereas Fallout works in 1% increments ala Rolemaster.)
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Quote:
Originally written by Spidweb:


Man, I hope Fallout 3 actually becomes reality.

- Jeff Vogel
Jeff, same here. Same here. I haven't been keeping up with the latest on FO3 but from what I know it is still a go.

I am not counting Bethesda out as some are.. I am genuinely interested in what their final product will be like.

Another game I would desperately love to see is another Planescape game.. Or something else as brilliant.
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