Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I decided to post this in a new topic. These rules are to be considered to be near final phase and are the results of much discussion. Please read them over and if you have any minor additions, changes, or corrections, please indicate below. You may puruse previous discussions here . * * * Eligibility Both Blades of Avernum and Blades of Exile scenarios are eligible for entry into the 8th Scenario Design Contest with the following guidelines: 1) The scenario cannot have been an entrant in any previous Spiderweb of Olympia scenario design contest. 2) All entered scenarios (utilities are exempt) must have been submitted to Spiderweb Software.* 3) The deadline for entry is November 30, 2006. * If you already submitted to Spiderweb and either have not been posted or have been removed, you may host it independently. However, you must have actually attempted to submit it to Spiderweb software. Categories Small Scenario Large Scenario Newcomer Best Utility Small Scenario: < 25 zones Large Scenario: >= 25 zones Zones is the total number of towns plus outdoor sections. Near identical towns (such as use of VTE) count as 0.5 of a zone. To be eligible for the Newcomer category, you must not have been a participant in any previous Spiderweb or Olympia scenario design contest. If this applies to you and you have more than one entry in this contest, you may select only one to be in the Newcomer category. Judging Initial Rounds Scenarios in each category will be given a score from 1-10 based on quality, 1 being lowest and 10 being highest. The decision criteria is generally up to the individual judge so long as he/she is consistent where possible. The exception is that a judge cannot favor either BoE scenarios over BoA scenarios or vice versa, each must be judged on it's merits. All judges scores are averaged to make a cumulative score. The highest ranked scenario in each category (except Best Utility) and any scenario with a score of 80% the highest score in the category will advance to the Best Scenario round. For example, suppose a category has four scenarios ranked 8.8, 8.5, 7.6, and 6.3. The cutoff for admission to the final round is 7.04 (0.8*8.8), so the top three scenarios advance and the lowest one does not. Final Round The scenarios that advanced are judged in a final best scenario round. All participating judges then discuss and debate to rank the scenarios from best to worst. Each judge is given three votes that he/she may distribute as he/she sees fit with a maximum of two for one scenario. How the judge actually allocates votes are secret. Once voting has completed the lower 50% rounded down (if there are 7, only the lowest 3 are dropped) are eliminated. If there are ties within the cutoff, all tied scenarios remain. Any votes for eliminated scenarios may be redistributed at the judge's discretion; votes for scenarios still in play may not be reallocated. The process continues until one scenario has the most points. Tie Breaking In the event of a tie that cannot be broken because no votes remain to be reallocated, with the exception of the final decision round, the cumulative score of the initial round is used to make the decision. Should those scores be tied, the high scores are compared and on down to second highest, third highest, and so on. In the event of an actual tie between all scores, both (or all those tied) scenarios are eliminted. If a tie occurs in the final decision round (i.e. two scenarios remain), all votes are cleared and the judges vote for their preferred scenario. If this vote ends in a tie, the above criteria are used. If all criteria are tied, the competition is a tie and both are co-winners. In the event more than two scenarios remain and all remaining scenarios are tied, the original decision criteria is used until two remain (at which a vote is done as above) or the tie is broken. Should the tie be impossible to break, a vote will be done to attempt to break a tie. If doing so is impossible, then all scenarios that are tied are declared co-winners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Imban Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 TM, who one must assume will be entering this contest, has some opinions on the voting: Quote: If we're going with a voting system by hook or by crook, I'd rather have it go as such: Take the number of finalists and divide the number by two. If there is an odd number of finalists, round up. This is the number of scenarios a judge can vote for. Order scenarios by the number of votes received, then use that same number as a cutoff, taking the scenarios with the highest number of votes. Then, take the number of remaining scenarios and repeat the process. It'd probably be better to have this discussion on the Lyceum forums, considering that TM, who is definitely going to enter this contest, is banned here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I'm still in the dark as to how judges are selected. I've had people try to explain it, and it never sinks in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Ephesos - judging by past contests, *i will post a topic, probably in November, where you can volunteer. He'll probably have some rules. *i - So basically, if you submit a scenario to SW that wasn't in a prev. contest, you're in? That makes me wonder, because SW hosts scenarios eligible for previous contests but weren't entered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 For clarity, to be eligible, you cannot have entered any previous Spiderweb of Olympia contest. Every scenario deserves one shot at glory, in my mind. As for judging, I'll put something up sometime in November soliciting volunteers. I don't want to put it out too early. If you volunteer, you can judge any categories that you do not partake in. Having too many volunteers is rarely, if ever, a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt aka Ravenwing Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I'm just curious, but are BoA scenarios competing against BoE scenarios? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Thralni Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I just wanted to state I sent out my scenario to Spiderweb, though they didn't put it on their site yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted October 20, 2006 Author Share Posted October 20, 2006 I figure I'll let Jeff release GF4 for Mac before I needle him to update the tables. Let him get that monkey off his back first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Quote: Originally written by Nemesis:I'm just curious, but are BoA scenarios competing against BoE scenarios? Yes, although there are only about three or so elgible scenarios, and out of those three, only one has any chance of doing well thusfar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Sorry for double posting, but I need to bring this back up. Is preliminary judging done anonymously, or is it done in a forum. Because if the latter, then I need to get a forum at the Lyceum ready soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted November 6, 2006 Author Share Posted November 6, 2006 I was just going to make a closed forum here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Drakefyre Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 I want prelim judging to have scores emailed to a judging coordinator. No cross-contamination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted November 6, 2006 Author Share Posted November 6, 2006 How I was going to do it was going to do it was have them submit their scores with comments and then open a forum for discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Swimmin' Salmon Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I've sent in my scores and comments. (Please post-date appropriately.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 As we have five days left: As far as judging goes, will you assign judges to categories based on their entries and game access? And to everyone else, this is your last chance to complain about the rules! EDIT: Haven't noticed this before. According to those rules, utilites are elgible, but you've said previously they're not. Which is true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Swimmin' Salmon Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Utilities are eligible. Scripts are not part of this contest. Those were the two categories that were discussed, it was decided to have a script contest in a few months, probably around March or April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 If the voting is done in secret — which I think it has to be — then why even bother opening a forum? The person running the contest can just post basic results as necessary, i.e., "Echoes: Renegade and Magus of Cattalon are the two scenarios from Large Scenario moving on to the finals," or whatever. And a scenario gets entered in exactly one category? That is, a Newcomer scenario is only a Newcomer, and not a Small or Large? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Quote: Orginally written by Kelandon:If the voting is done in secret — which I think it has to be — then why even bother opening a forum? Quote: Originally written by *i:The scenarios that advanced are judged in a final best scenario round. All participating judges then DISCUSS and DEBATE to rank the scenarios from best to worst. Each judge is given three votes that he/she may distribute as he/she sees fit with a maximum of two for one scenario. How the judge actually allocates votes are secret. (Emphasis added) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 I am opposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Swimmin' Salmon Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Quote: Originally written by Kelandon:And a scenario gets entered in exactly one category? That is, a Newcomer scenario is only a Newcomer, and not a Small or Large? My belief was that each entrant selected the appropriate category(ies) for each scenario being entered into the contest, within the guidelines for categorization. Each Newcomer scenario would therefore be in either Large or Small (if desired). But, whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Salmon: I said that based on what people are actually doing , which I found surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody wz. As Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 I'm concerned about allowing people who enter scenarios to judge other categories. Wouldn't it be in their best interest to select the worst possible scenario to move on to the finals, so as to give their own scenario a better shot at taking the top prize? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted November 26, 2006 Author Share Posted November 26, 2006 We expect judges to be honest in the initial rounds. After all, there is nothing at stake other than bragging rights really so I don't see the consequences to be too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Swimmin' Salmon Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Quote: Originally written by *i:We expect judges to be honest in the initial rounds. After all, there is nothing at stake other than bragging rights really so I don't see the consequences to be too bad. I would gather from this statement that one of two things has happened. Either Jeff was unwilling to donate a prize or prizes to the winner(s), or he was never asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 And really, having participants judge other categories has been done before. It's never been a problem, as far as I know. Besides, even if someone tried to do that, I'm almost sure they'd be caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Quote: Originally written by Spent Salmon:Either Jeff was unwilling to donate a prize or prizes to the winner(s), or he was never asked. I'm assuming the latter. We might ask him to donate a free game to the winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted November 26, 2006 Author Share Posted November 26, 2006 I'll probably head that up now that Jeff has a little more breathing room with GF4 released for Mac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Update the list of registered scenarios for the contest please. Oh, and I'd like some other utilities to compete with, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted November 27, 2006 Author Share Posted November 27, 2006 Ask and ye shall receive. If I left any out of note, let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 I was about to officially enter Graphic Adjuster and Dialogue Editor, but my efforts to make a Windows version of Dialogue Editor led me to realize that there is no windows version of Graphic Adjuster. Is this going to be a problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted November 27, 2006 Author Share Posted November 27, 2006 Compatability will be an issue for judging. You can always enter it, but I doubt you will win unless it is so good as to overcome this. If you still want to, let me formally know by declaring it in the actual registration topic by the end of the month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Oh, it just occurred to me: I could enter the HLPM in the Utility part, couldn't I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted November 27, 2006 Author Share Posted November 27, 2006 Yes, you could and I put it in as an "invited" entry. You can, of course, decline it if you want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Ok, I guess I'll enter Graphic Adjuster then. While I would like to make a windows version, basically none of the existing code or my current programming knowledge would be of any use, so I just don't have the time. Oh well. As long as this won't totally break your judging system, I don't mind a decreased score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 As a side-note, didn't Isaac do only the Mac 3D Editor? I think Notus was responsible for the Windows version. That might factor into the attribution for that utility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Quote: Originally written by Kelandon:As a side-note, didn't Isaac do only the Mac 3D Editor? I think Notus was responsible for the Windows version. This is true, although Notus's version was a port based on Isaac's code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Wow. I'd just like to say that I remember reading this announcement eleven months ago. I actually feel quite amazed that 11/30 is only tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted November 30, 2006 Author Share Posted November 30, 2006 So Kel, is Exodus going to be entered in the contest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 When was that deadline, again? November 30th, 2006.... at what time? 11:59:59 EST? More conveniently for me, 11:59:59 PST? I'd really like to get in a little more work on Thursday night before I submit it to Spiderweb and send in a contest version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted November 30, 2006 Author Share Posted November 30, 2006 The deadline is today in board time which, I believe, is set to PST unless someone changes it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Milu Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Is it deadline already? EDIT: seems to be... just checking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Well, it is now. I assume finalized details will be given tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted December 1, 2006 Author Share Posted December 1, 2006 Yes, I've had a very busy day today. I'll get things out either later today or sometime tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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