Using BoA to tell a story

[Sedape]

Has BoA (or BoE for that matter) been used to create a character-driven story, such as providing the player with a prefabricated party and giving the PCs actual dialogue in the story? It runs somewhat contrary to the concept of BoA, but could provide a new element to the story to make things feel new or different. (Less: you are a band of mercenaries/adventurers/flunkies with no backstory or personality sent to complete mission X)

 

While scenarios with plot decisions and alternate endings provide some extra flavor, a scenario like this could conceivably accomplish a similar brand of character involvement with a lower degree of design/execution difficulty. Thoughts?

[*i]

BoA, Mad Ambition is one. BoE has a few such as Roots by Thuryl, Emulations by myself, and I'm sure a few others. There is no reason more could not be done.

[Thralni]

To be honest, I don't like to play such scenarios, for I like to create the personalities myself. When I make a new party, I always think of them coming from there and there, with a certain mentality (which is obviously most of the time just my own mentality) and a specific background. If that image I created for them is suddenly torn apart by the designer, I'm usually not very pleased with that. It gives me the feeling that a huge gap has appeared between me, the party's creator, and the party itself.

 

In short: what happens for me in such scenarios, is that I feel helpless. I have lost the controls over my own party. So in general, I just don't like them, but more could be made, of course.

[the Great Potato]

I like them a lot. Roots and Quintessence (both for BoE) are my favorites.

 

There are plenty for BoE - check out the top-rated scenarios on CSR and most will be this story-driven type of scenario.

[Ash Lael]

The scenario I'm working on right now takes this concept to pretty extreme lengths.

[Drakefyre]

Are you going BoE or BoA?

[Ash Lael]

BoE all the way, baby.

[Lazarus.]

Well Bain is involved, that pretty much rules out BOA.

 

Yet another reason why I should get around to ordering BOE. For now I'll curse you good naturedly. (Damn BOE designers, don't have to worry about heights or terrains. Think their sooooo cool because of all those talkport graphics. Makes me sick.)

[Smoo]

I have nothing against prefab parties. In fact, I would like to see more scenarios with them. But then again it's easier to dislike a scenario if your pc is an unbearable idiot.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

Well, in my opinion, if the prefab character is an unbearable idiot due to deliberate story considerations rather than just the designer's inability to create logical situations, it can be a bit more forgivable.

[nikki.]

The thing with pre-fab parties are that the player doesn't have to use them. I, for instance, only used the pre-fab party in Emulations the first play through. The second time through I used a regular party.

 

Unless you run a load of checks at the beginning of the scenario, and chuck the party out if they aren't using the pre-fab party, there is no guarantee that they will. Of course, even then the player might be able to get around it...

[the Great Potato]

Well, it's the player's fault if they don't use the default party. And a way around it is to include the saved game, but have the scenario already started and the PC inside the scenario. Then run the intro dialogue through some dialog boxes, and presto! That way you can give the player special abilities, special items, items with scripts, etc. from the get go.

[Fort]

The intro screens are a nice effect to keep and I believe the "standard" way to do this is to provide a prefabricated party in a save file where they are not in any scenario. With a little of scripting at the very start of the scenario, the party will be everything the designer expects.

[Drakefyre]

Standard is not always best.

 

And this idea works better with BoE but is fine for BoA too.

[Ash Lael]

Quote:

Originally written by the Great Potato:
Well, it's the player's fault if they don't use the default party. And a way around it is to include the saved game, but have the scenario already started and the PC inside the scenario. Then run the intro dialogue through some dialog boxes, and presto! That way you can give the player special abilities, special items, items with scripts, etc. from the get go.

This is actually a really cool idea. And if they start it with any other party, they arrive in a walled room with nothing but an exit from the scenario. :-)

[Dintiradan]

By Ash:

Quote:

And if they start it with any other party, they arrive in a walled room with nothing but an exit from the scenario.

Ooh. That's evil.

 

Actually, a few weeks ago I came up with an idea for a series of this type (read: I'm getting sick and tired of the scenario I'm working on). Have four small scenarios, each with a pre-fab singleton. Each singleton's personality is developed in their scenario. Then have a fifth scenario that comes with a utility that extracts all the character info from each save. Bingo! A four PC scenario, in which each PC has an individual history.

 

The problem is that for me to be able to write such an utility, JV would have to release the format for the .SAV file.

 

EDIT: Such an utility could probably extract SDF values as well. That way, in the fifth scenario, the pre-created dialog could reflect choices made in the earlier four.

 

--------------------

I think that all right thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary decent people in this country are fed up with being sick and tired. I am most certainly not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am.

- John Cleese (Monty Python)

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Ash Lael:

Quote:

Originally written by the Great Potato:
And a way around it is to include the saved game, but have the scenario already started and the PC inside the scenario.

This is actually a really cool idea. And if they start it with any other party, they arrive in a walled room with nothing but an exit from the scenario. :-)

I considered doing exactly this for Roots, but eventually decided it was more trouble than it was worth. After all, it's a hard scenario, and if somebody needs to use a god party to finish it, I'd rather they did that rather than gave up on it completely.

I will be using extreme measures to enforce premade party use in Idols, though. I pretty much have to, since the scenario detects which one of two premade parties you're using and changes the plot accordingly. (That's right, it's a two-scenarios-in-one value deal. Limited time only, while stocks last.)

[Lazarus.]

Dintiradan's idea reminds me of a vague idea I had/have for a scenario. Basically it'd have have 4-8 stories, all of which touch upon each other a bit. Choices in one story would effect others etc. I've seen this done in movies / TV shows, but to my knowledge (which is limited to BOA) not in a scenario. The concept kind of reminds me of how Pulp Fiction's plot is presented, but with more storylines.

 

I put this idea aside because I couldn't come up with a good, detailed plot that tied all the stories together. Maybe sometime in the future.

[The Loquacious Lord Grimm]

I'd had an idea very similar to Dintiridan's, myself.

However, instead of extracting singletons, i figured the player would just select the character to be affected by each story at the start of the scenario.

Do it with a "choose a character" or "separate active character" type thing (I'm not in the mood to look up actual calls). I mean, TM kept the first character separate in Mad Ambition.

 

Each scenario trains a different class of PC, so there would have to be quite a few sub-stories. Then the party is "united" in a larger scenario, where the player doesn't have to chose; it just starts automatically. In order to keep the characters in separate scenarios, one might be able to use items (gifts or rewards, perhaps?) from the other scenarios as markers. One could then potentially use the same items to create a story recap in the big scenario.

 

To be honest, this is merely speculation.

But it does sound cool.

 

EDIT: Post 250!

 

--------------------

The Silent Assassin made a point of making known that his new crossbow invention is a brilliant success.

Of course, this was after he had managed to destroy every piece of furniture in the Living Room.

[Drakefyre]

You can't use items as markers to track things between scenarios. You can't do anything to check about what a party did in the previous scenario.

[Ephesos]

Quote:

Originally written by Drakefyre:
You can't do anything to check about what a party did in the previous scenario.

Well... except asking the player, but that breaks the atmosphere up a bit. I thought about doing that for DoK2... but to no avail. 'Twas a stupid idea.

I bet if Jeff let us do something with the save format via calls, it would be possible... nay, easy.

[The Loquacious Lord Grimm]

Okay, let's talk practicality.

I do know that we can utilize calls to check PC stats.

What if one created a tag or several tags using skills that can't be trained in, or the skills that require base skills to train in?

In essence, a combination key of skills, with a different key generated from the different sub-scenarios?

One could potentially manipulate the key, of course, but why would one want to, if they wanted to play corectly?

 

--------------------

The Silent Assassin knows more than the Shadow.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Lenar, Inc.:
What if one created a tag or several tags using skills that can't be trained in, or the skills that require base skills to train in?
In essence, a combination key of skills, with a different key generated from the different sub-scenarios?
One could potentially manipulate the key, of course, but why would one want to, if they wanted to play corectly?

Well, because the only skill that can't ever be trained in is Dread Curse, which doesn't carry over between scenarios, and any party above level 20 or so is likely to have access to multiple special skills already.

What you *could* do, I suppose, is give the party, say, a necklace, and tell them to put it on their lead PC at the start of the next scenario. (Call it a ceremonial necklace or something, given to commemorate the party's achievements in the first scenario, and start the next scenario with a ceremony in which the PC is expected to wear it.) Have the item give an unusual combination of stat bonuses that another scenario designer would be unlikely to give to an item by chance -- say, +1 Strength, +1 Quick Strike, +1 First Aid and +1 Luck.

Check the lead PC's stats at the start of the next scenario, then destroy the item in the necklace slot and check his stats again -- if the changes in stats match up with the loss of the stat bonuses given by your tag item, he was wearing your tag. Creating multiple tags (to check on multiple things that may or may not have been done in the first scenario) is just a matter of adding more items in different slots. Of course, you can always give back the items you destroy if you want the party to be able to keep them for the next scenario.

With this method, a player with a basic knowledge of scenario design could still create a fake tag, but it's unlikely that anyone would stumble across one by accident.

A word of warning: it's a good idea to only give the party tags for doing good things, or for avoiding doing bad things. If you give the party tags for screwing up, they can easily trick the next scenario into thinking they haven't done them by throwing away the tag items.