Erika, fungus and a record to set straight.

[Aran]

From an older topic :

 

Quote:

Originally written by Kelandon:

You know, Erika takes credit for making the fungus glow, but someone else (I forget who) says that the fungus was already glowing before they got there. Erika may just be an egomaniac, or possibly she did some work at the Tower of Magi that enhanced the glowing effect — the message upon entering the Tower's botanical room indicates that the mages were responsible for significant crop modification.

 

I think I have all this written down somewhere.

 

EDIT: Ah. Specifically, Erika in A1 says, "These passages wouldn't even be lit if I hadn't created the fungi that emit light, and I don't even get credit! And don't get me started on the mushrooms!" She adds, "The mushrooms down here? That are edible, nourishing, and grow with only the slightest light? I created them!"

 

However, Solberg says, "It was [Erika] that created the strain of mushrooms that grow quickly and are so nourishing, and other special plants as well," and adds, "Erika created the trees that grow in stone, so we could have a meager supply of wood. She summoned down several plants from above, and changed them so they'd grow down here. The one thing she didn't make was the glowing fungus on the cave ceilings. It's amazing, magical stuff, and was already here when the Empire found these caves."

This was discussed for a while, but beyond the conclusions that either a) Erika is a self-aggrandizing liar, Solberg is making a mischievous jab at her greatest pride, c) the Vahnatai Did It™, and humans are arrogant as a rule or d) Jeff didn't take notes and messed it all up, we didn't really establish what had happened.

 

Since Erika specifically complained that she is not credited, I get the sense that this is deliberate (against d). Solberg doesn't have a grudge against Erika (*she* didn't summon demons), and no reason to lie (against . Erika, however, has accomplished so much that she doesn't need to steal glory (against a).

 

It's a trivial issue, but it's always nagged at me for some reason. So I'm asking Jeff:

 

Who made the glowing fungus in Avernum? If it wasn't Erika, why does she claim to have done it? If it was, why does Solberg claim she didn't?

 

Since I don't know how often he comes here outside of BoA or Geneforge these days, I'll probably email him, too.

[nikki.]

Also, I'm sure that somebody other than Solberg claims that the passages were let before humans reached Avernum/Exile... possibly even Erika in another game.

 

I'm going to comsult the games right now, and get back later if I find quotes.

[Mab]

I'd say Erika had been working on underground flora from long before being exiled, or, if not, she knew something about it. Maybe she did it alone, maybe she had help from some other archmages.

Why so? There was an Erika in the Quartet (not Triad here) of Skylark Vale School of Magery. Just see the signs at the NE corner of the Lecture Halls in the VoDT scenario (town #12). And there are cave trees in the caves under the Vale, which isn't a part of Exile.

[Drakefyre]

How did the Vahnatai see in the caves then? If you look at Vahnatai lands in Avernum 2 compared to Avernum lands, there's a whole lot more glowy stuff down there.

[Alorael at Large]

It's possible that A and B are both true. There may have been some glowing fungus, but Erika made more of it or improved it. Yes, her claims are slightly inflated, but Erika isn't one for the subtle distinctions of "light but not enough light" and "plenty of light." Solberg is exactly the sort of pedant who would be picky.

 

—Alorael, whose money is on D. In fact, who created the fungus probably correlates with dragon genders, and both are inextricably bound up in what will have happened last year as of next Tuesday. Richard White is omnipresent!

[Arch-Mage Solberg]

Alorael is right! Erika's claim that she "created" the fungus light is false. The Vahnatai created the fungus, she just made more for our caves! Now mind you that this was a huge feat. It took Rentar-Ihrno and the Council to create the original fungus. I hope that this helps clear the confusion!

[Aran]

Solberg: As an unrelated side-note, is your signature a quote from A4? Because I wouldn't mind knowing what happened to Cheeseball...

[nikki.]

Cheeseball is not mentioned, as far as I rememeber, in A4. He definitely doesn't appear. Much to my dismay.

[ex post slarto]

There is more evidence -- but it's on both sides! In E2, Patrick says of the Vahnatai:

 

"It is their magic that created the glowing fungus that gives us light, and thus life."

 

In A2 he says "our" instead of "their" due to the insertion of a question talking about magic in general -- it is not actually asserting that Exile created the fungus.

 

Maxfield and X in A4 talk about refining the glowing fungus, but that doesn't mean much at all.

 

On the other hand, A4 also has an area description for the Tower remains that says "All of the plants that make life in the underworld livable, the glowing fungus, the trees, the giant, edible mushrooms, they were created here."

 

Also, early in the game: "Early in the history of Avernum, ingenious wizards created a fungus that glows with a soft green light. It spread, with help, to the ceilings and walls of every cavern in this land."

 

In ZKR, Seletine says:

"Your way will be lit by glowing green fungus in the ceiling. This was created in the Tower of Magi."

However, this is of questionable canonicity since Seletine also talks about the Tower of Magi having already been rebuilt, which it wasn't.

 

So we have, for the Vahnatai:

E1 - Solberg

A1 - Solberg

E2 - Patrick

 

And for Avernum:

E1 - Erika

A1 - Erika

A4 - Descriptions

ZKR - Seletine (questionable)

 

EDIT: Solberg, I'm all for RPs but please don't mix fabricated fantasy in serious discussions about canon. There is nothing to suggest that Rentar-Ihrno or the Council created the fungus, and there are a number of facts that make that sound extremely unlikely.

[Arch-Mage Solberg]

I appologize for being 'inconsistent'. To be truthfull, you are all reading too much into this! Jeff clearly got mixed up in the story. This is hardly the first instance of inconsistancies in the storyline. I was only trying to spice it up a little. If the truth is what you really want, well there it is!

[Dintiradan]

Pfft. Compared to gender-changing dragons, this is nothing.

 

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My daddy was a First Edition thief. It runs in the family.

- Haley (OotS #8)

[The Loquacious Lord Grimm]

I don't suppose anyone has asked Jeff to release a series of patches that would clear said matters up?

There are corrections between printings of books... why not take a little time and correct continuity?

 

--------------------

The Silent Assassin does not volunteer.

Typical.

[Alorael at Large]

Continuity is rarely affected by new editions of books. The exception would be the famous "retcon" technique, which I would assume causes as much controversy as it resolves.

 

—Alorael, who doesn't think Solberg's quote comes from any game. Read it carefully. The choice is either both living or both dying/disappearing. What kind of choice is that, and what is Solberg supposed to be implying?

[Arch-Mage Solberg]

Quote:

—Alorael, who doesn't think Solberg's quote comes from any game. Read it carefully. The choice is either both living or both dying/disappearing. What kind of choice is that, and what is Solberg supposed to be implying?[/QB]

My sig is not a quote (persay), but I got some of the context from Solberg in A4! When you ask him to teach you spells, he looks at his withered hands and thinks about what he has done to himself. Since I have taken it upon myself to be Solberg these last 5 years, I have added some of my own personality into this role!
I appologize for leading anyone astray and I'll try to compose myself in future conversations. (And now for my trademark cool symbols!)

[ex post slarto]

So the implication is that Solberg killed himself to get rid of Cheeseball, then came back to life?

 

?_?

[Alorael at Large]

I think you want "get rid of him or die" instead of what you have. Or maybe "keep him or live," but that's a very odd way to say it.

 

—Alorael, who also supposes that Solberg could be so sick of his familiar that two deaths was preferable to none. You never know when those really old mages are going to fall over the edge into the madness that seems to get all powerful wizards eventually.

[Arch-Mage Solberg]

Quote:

Originally written by Charged Slartile:
So the implication is that Solberg killed himself to get rid of Cheeseball, then came back to life?

?_?

What? You can't do that?

Quote:

Originally written by Profiles in Pseudospex:
I think you want "get rid of him or die" instead of what you have. Or maybe "keep him or live," but that's a very odd way to say it.

Thanks oh wise Alorael for your wisdom. That is what I meant. Being old and thinking about too many things has caused me to say the wrong thing.

[Aran]

The oracle hath spoken.

 

Quote:

Jeff Vogel:

 

The mold already existed, but Erika improved it. Both have their own reasons for stretching the truth.

In other words, the most likely explanation is usually the correct one.

[Alorael at Large]

Now I should accuse Jeff of plagiarism because he took my idea, right?

 

—Alorael, who is pretty sure that Occam's Razor depends on properties of this universe. As soon as you have magic the most complicated explanations become not only likely but preferable.

[Sudanna]

Quote:

Compared to gender-changing dragons, this is nothing.

Dragons? you mean Serviles!

The word of Jeff Vogel is law. This issue is resolved. This topic is ripe for death.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally by -X-:

 

Quote:

Dragons? you mean Serviles!

Some serviles, too, but the dragons changed their gender first and they did it more impressively, too.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Alorael at Large]

I think Exile/Avernum deserves special recognition for having a once-male dragon lay eggs and hatch a bunch of little dragons. Well, littler. Dragon family life is very complicated.

 

—Alorael, who somehow finds malleable sexes less worrisome in serviles. The Shapers can do anything to their creations without being too surprising.

[Nioca]

Quote:

Originally written by -X-:
The word of Jeff Vogel is law. This issue is resolved. This topic is ripe for death.

-X-, you can't end a topic on your own terms. Unless you're a Moderator, and last time I checked, you're not.

[The Loquacious Lord Grimm]

Well, you could go with the theory that dragons are simultaneously male and female and can fertilize their own eggs...

Clive Barker's Abarat uses that principle.

 

--------------------

The Silent Assassin not presents the following for your consideration:

Biscotti

[Tyranicus]

Perhaps dragons have more in common with the dinosaurs of Jurassic Park than scaly skin and sharp teeth.

[Alorael at Large]

There's really a much simpler explanation. A wizard did it. Actually, it was probably five large and scaly wizards.

 

—Alorael, who thinks -X- was invoking his sense of humor. Serious claims of thread ownership and termination usually come from the thread's starter.

[ex post slarto]

Well, we know Athron didn't self-fertilize because she talks about having a mate who is also responsible for the brood. Also, it's worth pointing out that, while Athron is female in parts of Exile 2 and all of Exile 3 and Avernum 1-3, in the Exile conversations that talk about the brood -- i.e., Athron's own words -- Athron refers to himself exclusively as male. Athron's gender wasn't changed until after he began brooding...

 

Also, there are what, 2 or 3 serviles that changed genders, out of numerous repeat appearances. 80% of the dragons changed genders. (Unless you count Pythras, or argue that Pyrog's being neutered doesn't count as a gender change, but you're still at at least 50%)

[Aran]

Quote:

Originally written by Nioca:

Quote:

Originally written by -X-:
The word of Jeff Vogel is law. This issue is resolved. This topic is ripe for death.

-X-, you can't end a topic on your own terms. Unless you're a Moderator, and last time I checked, you're not.

Moderator is not enough; you also need to be a moderator in this forum.

Although technically, I could edit this topic's title to "[CLOSED BY THE ARANCAYTAR]" and blank all my posts and then rant and whine until either it got locked or I got banned or possibly both.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally by Arancaytar:

 

Quote:

Although technically, I could edit this topic's title to "[CLOSED BY THE ARANCAYTAR]" and blank all my posts and then rant and whine until either it got locked or I got banned or possibly both.

Don't do that, or Dikiyoba will have to come after you with the baseball bat.

[ex post slarto]

*queues up Beethoven's Fifth*

 

<g>

[Randomizer]

Quote:

Originally written by Arancaytar:
Although technically, I could edit this topic's title to "[CLOSED BY THE ARANCAYTAR]" and blank all my posts and then rant and whine until either it got locked or I got banned or possibly both.

It's too soon to replace you as mod. I need more time before I can make my move.

Finding inconsistencies in the texts is fun.