Nephil Fort Glitch?

[Genernumlover]

I was playing the intro area to Avernum 2: Crystals Souls, as Vogel said he was looking into the Formello boat glitch, and I want a game ready for when that issue gets fixed.

 

Well, I encountered a trio of Nephar Archers at the main gate to the Nephil Fort. Needless to say, those guys shredded my team, and they would leave the main gate to chase me if I tried to go in the back way. I left, leveled up, and they were completely gone when I came back. Is it a glitch that they were there in the first place? Or are they supposed to be there as a challenge? It has been some time since I played this area.

Edited September 16 by Genernumlover

[Mea Tulpa]

None of this sounds like a glitch.

[Genernumlover]

12 hours ago, Mea Tulpa said:

None of this sounds like a glitch.

 

They vanished from the zone entirely. I looked all over the fort for them and they were not there. Scripted enemy guards remain in the zone when you leave and return.

[TriRodent]

Was it an outdoor encounter or inside the fort map?  It's been a while but I don't remember anyone outside the fort (in the fort map). You had to sneak in that way off to the left through a passage. 'Then' you would encounter inhabitants.  If you killed any/all they don't get replaced for many days/weeks of game time and then it's kind of random where they come back (in much reduced numbers)

 

An outdoor encounter might still be in the area after going in the back door...or it might not. They seemed to appear/disappear at random.  However, if you immediately exited again they would probably be there waiting (I can remember ducking into a town to recharge and then going immediately back out if there was a group of wandering monsters right there to get some experience/treasure).

 

But yeah, it doesn't sound like a glitch without more info.

[Genernumlover]

31 minutes ago, TriRodent said:

Was it an outdoor encounter or inside the fort map?  It's been a while but I don't remember anyone outside the fort (in the fort map). You had to sneak in that way off to the left through a passage. 'Then' you would encounter inhabitants.  If you killed any/all they don't get replaced for many days/weeks of game time and then it's kind of random where they come back (in much reduced numbers)

 

An outdoor encounter might still be in the area after going in the back door...or it might not. They seemed to appear/disappear at random.  However, if you immediately exited again they would probably be there waiting (I can remember ducking into a town to recharge and then going immediately back out if there was a group of wandering monsters right there to get some experience/treasure).

 

But yeah, it doesn't sound like a glitch without more info.

 

It was inside the fort. There was a trio of Nephar Archers holding the gate. I had snuck in the back way and they left the gate to fight me in the dining hall. I reloaded an earlier save and snuck around to fight them at the gate itself, and I kept coming up with bad results. So I left, leveled up, and the Nephar were not in the zone when I returned. They had just vanished from the fort entirely.

 

It was also odd to me that there were Nephar in that spot in the game. They were fairly strong NPCs for the beginning dungeon. That's why I was asking if they were meant to be a challenge.

 

I should note that the standard Nephil Archer NPCs were still there regardless of the status of the Nephar.

Edited September 17 by Genernumlover

[Mea Tulpa]

Which dungeon are you even talking about?  If it's "the beginning dungeon" you have to leave and go to the world map in order to move between the two entrances.  Which you've described doing in two different orders, in your two posts above, along with some reloading, and then a long time passing before you returned.  It just sounds like the exact sequence of events in your save file is quite murky.

 

If you're really invested in this, you could try to duplicate it with a fresh play, paying close attention to exactly where they are and what you do in between.  But yeah, it's a pretty big leap from what you've observed to "glitch."

[TriRodent]

12 hours ago, Mea Tulpa said:

Which dungeon are you even talking about?  

 

It is the nephil fort off to the right as you leave your beginning fort, their comment about the dining hall nailed that down for me. And yes you do need to go back outside to go between the main gate and the back door in. So it sounds like we're all talking about the same place, that's good.

 

As to the archers I vaguely remember three on each side of the passage leading to the gate, but none of them seemed overly powerful/way wrong for very low level players. That's potentially bad as it wouldn't explain the nephars.

 

At this point... I dunno (:shrug).

[Genernumlover]

On 9/17/2024 at 7:36 AM, Mea Tulpa said:

Which dungeon are you even talking about?  If it's "the beginning dungeon" you have to leave and go to the world map in order to move between the two entrances.  Which you've described doing in two different orders, in your two posts above, along with some reloading, and then a long time passing before you returned.  It just sounds like the exact sequence of events in your save file is quite murky.

 

If you're really invested in this, you could try to duplicate it with a fresh play, paying close attention to exactly where they are and what you do in between.  But yeah, it's a pretty big leap from what you've observed to "glitch."

 

It is the Nephil Fort right to Fort Ganrick.

 

The sequence of events:

 

My team snuck into the fort via the back and encountered the Nephar tracking me down in the dining hall.

 

I tried to fight them. They resisted Daze and my chance to hit was too low to matter.

 

After that, I reloaded a save file that I had taken seconds before they attacked me. I blessed and shielded my team before trying again. That didn't help either.

 

I reloaded an earlier save, snuck in and around to the gate, and found them there. I tried to lure them into the side corridor in the west so I could fight them one at a time.  The results were basically the same as the above.

 

So, I left and returned the stolen banner to Fort Draco. I leveled up from that, and returned after investing stat points in endurance and I increased my team's weapon skills. The enemy Nephar had vanished from the zone.

 

This evening or this weekend I may try making a new game and repeating the sequence.

 

 

 

On 9/17/2024 at 8:29 PM, TriRodent said:

 

It is the nephil fort off to the right as you leave your beginning fort, their comment about the dining hall nailed that down for me. And yes you do need to go back outside to go between the main gate and the back door in. So it sounds like we're all talking about the same place, that's good.

 

As to the archers I vaguely remember three on each side of the passage leading to the gate, but none of them seemed overly powerful/way wrong for very low level players. That's potentially bad as it wouldn't explain the nephars.

 

At this point... I dunno (:shrug).

 

That's exactly what puzzled me. A trio of Nephar in that fort are very powerful for low level characters to fight.

[Randomizer]

1 hour ago, Genernumlover said:

That's exactly what puzzled me. A trio of Nephar in that fort are very powerful for low level characters to fight.

The fights were all beta tested by lots of players on different game difficulties and different party builds. So most players found a way to do the fights either with a better early build or tactics like you mentioned of facing them one at a time. In the very early game spells hit better than weapons and that might have been why you were missing so much.

[Mea Tulpa]

5 hours ago, Genernumlover said:

My team snuck into the fort via the back and encountered the Nephar tracking me down in the dining hall...

 

I reloaded an earlier save, snuck in and around to the gate, and found them there..

 

How do you even know you're talking about the same exact enemy units in both of these cases?

 

Answer: you don't.  It's a pretty big assumption, but you're presenting it as simple fact.

 

5 hours ago, Genernumlover said:

So, I left and returned the stolen banner to Fort Draco. I leveled up from that, and returned after investing stat points in endurance and I increased my team's weapon skills. The enemy Nephar had vanished from the zone.

 

So literally all you did was return the banner and do one level up for your team?  No other fighting, you didn't visit any other zones, just Draco and back?

 

(Also, I assume you'd have mentioned if you were using any mods or doing any script editing.)

 

Look, there's two options here.

 

Option 1 is that you have experienced a bizarre but significant glitch -- improperly appearing and/or disappearing enemies -- that no other player in the just about ten years this game has been out, has ever reported.

 

Option 2 is that you are mistaken.  There's a lot of enemies in that dungeon, and they mostly look similar.  It wouldn't be hard for a few to get lost in the mix.

[Genernumlover]

On 9/19/2024 at 10:03 AM, Randomizer said:

The fights were all beta tested by lots of players on different game difficulties and different party builds. So most players found a way to do the fights either with a better early build or tactics like you mentioned of facing them one at a time. In the very early game spells hit better than weapons and that might have been why you were missing so much.

 

Yeah, my chance to hit is terrible with weapons. It was better with spells, but the Nephar resisted so much damage that they near worthless to try and cast spells.

 

On 9/19/2024 at 2:44 PM, Mea Tulpa said:

 

How do you even know you're talking about the same exact enemy units in both of these cases?

 

Answer: you don't.  It's a pretty big assumption, but you're presenting it as simple fact.

 

 

So literally all you did was return the banner and do one level up for your team?  No other fighting, you didn't visit any other zones, just Draco and back?

 

(Also, I assume you'd have mentioned if you were using any mods or doing any script editing.)

 

Look, there's two options here.

 

Option 1 is that you have experienced a bizarre but significant glitch -- improperly appearing and/or disappearing enemies -- that no other player in the just about ten years this game has been out, has ever reported.

 

Option 2 is that you are mistaken.  There's a lot of enemies in that dungeon, and they mostly look similar.  It wouldn't be hard for a few to get lost in the mix.

 

It is factual as those were the only Nephar Archers in the fort. They also did so much damage per shot that they were impossible to mistake for anything else.

 

I went to Fort Draco and leveled up, and I came back. If anything attacked me between the Nephil Fort and Fort Draco, I would've dealt with them as well. That said, I don't remember anything attacking me.

 

I don't use mods or script editing because I don't have permission from Vogel to do that stuff.

 

And few other players encountered the boat glitch until more people started using recently updated Macs. The game has been out for years, but the software system running the game is constantly being upgraded and that causes issues with the game.

 

I replicated the series of events and I found the Nephar Archers again. They are in a line at the front gate. Curiously enough, they only appear in this game when I try and attack from the front of the fort. In the last game, they appeared when I attacked from the rear and disappeared when I left.

 

 

Edited Monday at 12:45 AM by Genernumlover

[Mea Tulpa]

So, you've replicated the Nephar Archers appearing.  Which just confirms they are regular, expected enemies to find there.  Now, can you replicate them disappearing?  (Or appearing in the back of the fort at all?)

 

It might be helpful to use "showmeall" so you can easily see all the enemies on the map, in determining whether they disappear versus are simply offscreen.