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Many thanks for your work on the project! (split from Experimental releases)


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Posted (edited)

Many thanks for your work on the project!

Will there be more bug fixes for freezes and game quits on several actions(such as clicking "Record" on dialogs) soon?

x64 

Windows 10

BoE-Win-a8e120d

Edited by DarkenVolk
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6 hours ago, Celtic Minstrel said:

There will be, whenever I get around to making a new build. I think I have several unreleased fixes already on the GitHub, but I haven't found found the time to work on it much lately.

And is there a way to build the new fixes onto a new version somehow?

 

So in the meanwhile, If i want to play any version of BOE in a stable way, Is there a proper way to do it in a windows 10 machine?

 

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50 minutes ago, DarkenVolk said:

And is there a way to build the new fixes onto a new version somehow?

 

So in the meanwhile, If i want to play any version of BOE in a stable way, Is there a proper way to do it in a windows 10 machine?

 

http://www.BladesOfExile.com/ has instructions on getting the legacy Exile series working on Windows 10, so you can play the game while waiting for OpenBoE development to progress.

 

The website needs work and so does the packaging of the software, but I'm working on it a little at a time and have been too stubborn to make the changes until I'm done tweaking text and instructions and stuff in the game. But it works.

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32 minutes ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

http://www.BladesOfExile.com/ has instructions on getting the legacy Exile series working on Windows 10, so you can play the game while waiting for OpenBoE development to progress.

 

The website needs work and so does the packaging of the software, but I'm working on it a little at a time and have been too stubborn to make the changes until I'm done tweaking text and instructions and stuff in the game. But it works.

Thank you very much, Very helpful as well.

Will try it after work time :)

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1 hour ago, DarkenVolk said:

And is there a way to build the new fixes onto a new version somehow?

If you wanted to build it yourself, naturally it's possible. It's not easy though. There are some basic instructions in the readme on GitHub, but I'm not sure how complete they are.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Celtic Minstrel said:

If you wanted to build it yourself, naturally it's possible. It's not easy though. There are some basic instructions in the readme on GitHub, but I'm not sure how complete they are.

I see no need to get into so much trouble for now as it won't provide a solution to the stability issue yet, However, It does look promising with new race choice and other features! I always dremt of a remastered version for the game(And mostly for Exile III) even back in the day I did some programming.

 

As for the 16bit compatibility fix(OTVDM), Checking it right now and it seems great!, Any fix for the somewhat sluggish behavior, more often when the game window loses focus?

 

BTW, Slightly out of topic, But is there a updated scenario guide(Like which scenario to start before another / What is the best order to play each)

Thanks alot again guys

 

 

 

Edited by DarkenVolk
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Posted (edited)

The sluggishness is the only problem I notice under OTVDM. I don't know how to stop it, but hopefully it's not too bad. It's a little bit annoying but it doesn't disrupt my life much.

 

Valley of Dying Things, A Small Rebellion, and The Za-Khazi Run, in that order, as they are listed in the Start Scenario menu. The stories are independent, but in terms of party level progression, that order should get you in the right place. There are high-level party builders out there if you want just the right level parties for any given scenario. Some are built to be paired with scenarios, although some, like GNU GPL 3.0 scenario "New Market City" by Milu, are independent. I'll be packaging a modified New Market City with an upcoming modified legacy BoE ZIP, but for now you can find it here: http://bladesofexile.com/ScenarioArchive/NewMarketCity2_0.zip

 

EDIT: Also,  when I'm done uploading my scenario archive to BladesOfExile.com, there will be notes in the archive when a given designer writes sequels or series of scenarios, so you'll know the correct order to play them in.

Edited by The Almighty Doer of Stuff
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11 hours ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

GNU GPL 3.0 scenario "New Market City" by Milu

 

Can I just check your source for linking this particular licence to the two New Market City scenarios?

 

I’m asking because I was a little surprised to read this. I don’t recall any mention of a licence being connected to these scenarios before. I had a check of my copies, and of the copies hosted on the website you linked to in your post, and I couldn’t find any mention of a licence in those packages either. That worries me a little – if a package is released under a given licence, I would usually expect this to be explicitly stated in the package itself.

 

Of course, it may be that licence information for these scenarios was released somewhere else that I’ve missed! It’s also possible that you’re working on some private communication with the designer (although in that case, I’m not sure a general licence is the right terminology to use, since the information has not been made publicly available). Or there may be other possibilities I’ve not thought of!

 

In any case, this is worth clarifying, because personal copyright is an important issue. Unless you have specific permission from the designer, or unless there is publicly accessible information that makes it clear that a work can be modified under certain conditions, you shouldn’t really be altering other people’s work in your project. Designers have a legal right for their work to be viewed as they intended it, and not altered by others – no matter how well-meaning!

 

After all, if you want a feature that’s not present in one of the shopping scenarios, one easy solution that doesn't tread on other people's toes is to just write a shopping scenario yourself! Scenario design is what Blades of Exile was built for, after all!

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I would just add that if it actually is GNU GPL 3.0, permission to distribute derivatives is conditional based on using the same license, which you don't seem to have done here.  (Unless this is the original, I can't tell.)

 

And -- as I exhorted in the other thread -- if you're distributing a modified version of something and not the original, THAT NEEDS TO BE CRYSTAL CLEAR.  Where you link it for download, and in the downloaded item itself.  I genuinely can't tell if what you've linked here is your modified version or the original.

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Posted (edited)

There are two versions of New Market City, both in that archive. I don't know what the difference is. Those are Milu's unmodified versions. Milu has released all their BoE work under GNU GPL 3.0, including scenarios and graphics, as communicated to me via email, upon my request. When I modify and include that scenario, I will include the appropriate notes.

 

Given that it was communicated via email, is there some special protocol I should use to make it known?

Edited by The Almighty Doer of Stuff
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Milu hasn't released their work under GNU GPL 3.0 if all they've done is say that in an email.

 

 

At the very least there needs to be a notice included with the released file that spells out the license.  It looks like you are also supposed to include the text of the license itself, which makes sense.  There's a whole list of requirements if you look up the license itself:

 

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.txt

 

Note there's a section there on the requirements for releasing modified versions as well.  But the original release has to meet the license requirements first!

 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Intentionally Left Bank said:

Milu hasn't released their work under GNU GPL 3.0 if all they've done is say that in an email.

 

 

At the very least there needs to be a notice included with the released file that spells out the license.  It looks like you are also supposed to include the text of the license itself, which makes sense.  There's a whole list of requirements if you look up the license itself:

 

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.txt

 

Note there's a section there on the requirements for releasing modified versions as well.  But the original release has to meet the license requirements first!

 

My mistake, it's CC-BY-SA. I just checked the email. Good thing I haven't tried sharing a modified version yet. But the fact remains that...

 

...the scenario copyright is not the same. You're not to blame.

 

Seems simple enough. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ I hope including the emails in a document distributed with the modified scenario is sufficient.

Edited by The Almighty Doer of Stuff
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Posted (edited)

Should I request for Milu to state it in a post here? I'm emailing her because having looked closely at the email, it's clear the graphics are CC-BY-SA but it's not so clear about the scenario. She said we can "use" it. I'd like to go by the books as much as possible but I also don't want to be a pest. Tim Farland, Luz Piazuelo, and Andrew Hunter likewise gave us permission to use their graphics, via private communication. For Luz, it's via PM on this forum, but for Tim and Andrew, it's only through email... For Andrew Hunter, neither he nor Jeff Vogel could remember who owned the rights to the graphics but both said if it was OK with the other we could use the graphics with GNU GPL 3.0. Via email.

 

Celtic Minstrel told me it was good enough. We've been using their content in OBoE. Blame him? :(

Edited by The Almighty Doer of Stuff
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ADoS, given the immense confusion in this thread, I'm just going to go ahead and make a clear proclamation about what you need to do for anything you are linking to off the forums.  I think this is uncontroversial but if you'd like to it to work differently, just say so and the mods can have a discussion and get back to you.

 

- If you have email permission to use somebody's work as-is, and there's no evidence suggesting otherwise (or that there are license issues), that's fine.

 

- If you have email permission to distribute a modified version of somebody's work, and there's no evidence suggesting otherwise (or that there are license issues), that's fine, but you need to clearly label that it is a modified version both where it is linked, and within the download itself.

 

- If you want to distribute somebody else's work (as-is, or modified) under a given license, then (1) their work needs to have been publicly released under that license, and (2) it needs to be done in accordance with the terms of the license.

 

Sounds good?

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Posted (edited)

I'm confused. It seems there is a clash between points 1 & 2, and point 3? Could you clarify, please?

 

Oh, you mean I can't claim a license unless it's publicly proclaimed, but if I in good faith believe I'm free to use it, I can state that in a note with the content without mentioning a particular license, with the understanding that the author may request I stop modifying/distributing it?

Edited by The Almighty Doer of Stuff
more thinkery
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You don't necessarily need a license in order to have permission to use someone's work, absolutely.  If there's no license, and they give you permission, that's just fine.

 

(You can't use a license unless the license actually applies.  That means the requirements for the license need to be met.  This depends on the license but might include things like the original release stating the license and including the full text of the license.)

 

Finally, if we're talking about modifying and distributing somebody else's creative work as a new version of that work, please operate based on explicit permission  and not "good faith beliefs."  As this thread shows, you had some good faith beliefs that turned out to be not quite true when you went to look at the actual emails.

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21 hours ago, *Milu* said:

I give my permission to modify and distribute my scenarios under the GNU GPL 3.0 licence.

 

Many thanks for the confirmation, Milu!

 

It’s not always easy to determine whether work is being used with the appropriate permissions, which is one reason I just wanted to check the proposed modifications were all above board. The best way to check is directly from the creator, of course! So thanks for chipping in!

 

Nice work on your scenarios, by the way. They’re well put together, very comprehensive, and with a good amount of attention paid to fun, little details. They’re great packages!

 

Just out of curiosity, Almighty Doer of Stuff, what modifications are you planning to make to New Market City 2.0? ‘Modifications’ could mean all sorts of things, and I’m just wondering what types of things you were planning to change!

 

Also, let me just add my voice to Slarty’s, here. Whenever you modify a pre-existing package in any way, you really do need to make it abundantly clear that you’ve altered it. And not just in the package, but in its name, and everywhere you link to it.

 

That’s not just for the sake of permissions, but to make absolutely sure that people know what they’re downloading. You may know that you’ve altered the packages, and how – but no-one else will unless you tell them. And if people don’t know what they’re playing, that could lead to confusion!

 

For example, let’s imagine that you made some changes to how Thrown Missiles are handled in Blades of Exile. That’s all well and good. But if players don’t actually know your package is different from other versions of BoE, they’ll probably just assume that Thrown Missiles behave as everyone else says they do. They have no reason to think otherwise!

 

At best, they won’t make use of your changes, and at worst, they’ll get really confused when systems don’t behave as they should. That can only detract from their experience of playing the game, which you probably don’t want to happen. So, please, start making a habit of clearly identifying anything you’ve changed. It will only help in the long term! :)

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, I'm going to include detailed changelogs, credits, etc. in the next ZIP. I'm just kinda sluggish about improvements right now, yet stubborn enough to believe I'll get it done quickly.

 

The biggest changes I'm planning to make to New Market City are some modifications to the party-leveling feature to make it a little simpler and more intuitive, and adding a small library with advanced tips as well as some of Jeff's jokes. I'm going to move the Tip Of The Day jokes there to make room for actual tips in the Tip Of The Day feature. I'm trying to make the game easier to understand for new players, because it has a steep learning curve otherwise. I'm altering help dialogs, Tip Of The Day, Instant Help, and the scrolling text on the Main Menu. I'm also removing the Burma Shave joke and putting it on actual signs in VoDT somewhere, because I don't like that accidentally hitting * on the NumPad while trying to move your party displays the somewhat menacing and confusing, "You want to save..." out of context. It also works because Skylark Vale is in Valorim.

 

I exchanged some DMs with Motardo, also. He's going to try to fix a few more bugs. If he can't figure out how to take Life Saving capability off Acidic Weapons, I'll also remove Milu's Corrosive Sword. And I'll find something to do with the spot the Resurrection Balm is in, because it isn't needed for Raise Dead and Resurrect despite advertisements, and fixing that bug could potentially break legacy scenarios.

Edited by The Almighty Doer of Stuff
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I'm confused.  Some of those things sounds like alterations to New Market City, some sound like alterations to VODT, and some sound like alterations to BoE itself, but I'm not entirely clear where one ends and the next begins.

 

I'm also still not clear if the version currently linked is a modified version or not.  I think it's not?

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Intentionally Left Bank said:

I'm confused.  Some of those things sounds like alterations to New Market City, some sound like alterations to VODT, and some sound like alterations to BoE itself, but I'm not entirely clear where one ends and the next begins.

 

I'm also still not clear if the version currently linked is a modified version or not.  I think it's not?

Nope, not modified. I'm still tinkering and stubbornly refusing to apply your suggested fixes on the grounds that I want to finish the changes I'm making first and ostensibly will do so quickly enough that nobody will be the wiser but in truth am taking my time and ignoring the reality of the situation. And yes, I'm just lumping a bunch of changes into one post without differentiating them, because they're connected. To clarify:

1. There is an easter egg about Valorim in Exile 3 and BoE. Press &*() and you will get a series of four small-text messages. "If Valorim..." "You want to save..." "Back up your save files..." "Burma Shave." This is unfortunate because there is an * on the NumPad, which people use to move their party. If you mispress and hit the * key above the 9 key, it just ominously says, "You want to save..." without the context. Now I half-hid a row of signs with those messages in Skylark Vale, conveniently located in Valorim, and blanked out those four lines. It still gives a blank line but it's better than an ominous message.

 

2. I said that because I'm also moving other silly things, in particular, the jokes in Tip Of The Day. I'm moving all the jokey messages to a new small library I plan to add to New Market City, where the player can peruse it, along with a few other books of advanced gameplay tips. Those jokes ("Do not taunt happy fun ball." etc.) will be replaced in their original locations with actual gameplay tips.

 

3. You can buy Resurrection Balm in New Market City. When I'm done, you won't be able to. Something else will be there instead, because due to a bug, the spells do not actually require it to revive your dead PCs. It's useless, and fixing the bug might cause problems in scenarios that don't provide Resurrection Balm, assuming it was unnecessary and that nobody would be hex editing BoE.

 

4. I'm making a bunch of other changes to text and images in legacy BoE, mostly to make the game easier to understand.

 

5. Regarding hex-editing BoE, Motardo, who came up with lovely fixes to correct the Thrown Missiles/Defense stat bug (applied currently), re-enable the Bash/Pick keyboard shortcuts (applied in the alleged next release), and turn off Instant Help by default (not going to be applied but it's there if anyone wants it for their own copy), is trying to fix a few other problems I told him about. He's already removed the password check in the Scenario Editor. He says he enjoys these things, which is both kind and convenient.

 

6. Milu and Motardo will be credited appropriately. As for you, Slarty, for your advice on crediting, clarity, and transparency, you may find...

 

...your name and mine, inside a heart on a Credits.TXT.

Edited by The Almighty Doer of Stuff
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ADoS, I assume that's a joke.  Maybe it's supposed to be a friendly joke, but we've discussed boundaries and harassment in the past, and that is a step too far.  So on the off chance that you're serious: please hit pause, consider past warnings, and take a second to think about what you're trying to accomplish here.

 

And on that note, since this thread's original topic has run its course, and it's moved on to... whatever it is that's being expressed here, I think it's time for it to end.

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Since this thread was originally intended for me to post new releases, perhaps we can move all the recent discussion to a new (but still locked) thread and unlock this again?

 

I'd do it myself, but I'm just not sure what I'd call that new thread… or just where the split should start…

 

EDIT: I've gone ahead and done it.

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