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Pentil is an emotionally heavy place


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I've finally fought my way through eight million vlishes and reached Pentil, and I'm finding it a difficult place to be, emotionally.  The librarian has spent her entire life copying useless records because they belonged to my people.  The military leader has killed people because they disobeyed shapers who weren't even there anymore.  And just in case I missed the message that these were living, thinking, feeling people, Jeff has given us a sage who's figured out how to tame fyora and a farmer who's sad because her husband died.

 

I find the entire town emotionally difficult to be in; the whole place makes me embarrassed to be a shaper.

 

In the real world, my country abolished slavery 150 years ago.  I've often thought about how horrible slavery was for the slaves, but this game is making me think about what a horrible effect slavery would also have had on the psyches of the slave owners.

 

Geeze, Jeff, rip out my heart and stomp on it, why don't you?

 

So, am I a crazy person who takes games way too seriously (okay, yes, I am; I know that), or did anybody else find this an emotionally difficult game?

 

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Jeff's games do make you think at times, it isn't all hack & slash/kill everything that moves.

 

(specifically thinking about the decision on the strategic value of wiping out a large batch of future slith warriors ... vs ... the tactical situation of 'you' wiping out a bunch of defenseless toddlers)

 

Sometimes (in game situations) you gotta do what you gotta do ... in your case, telling the librarian she's done a good job, telling the farmer what she wants to hear, etc.  To do otherwise risks having the town tear you apart for being a heretic (I wish those were some of the responses available to you - lying but telling them what they want to hear - give you a neutral or very slight reputation adjustment vs the larger adjustment with the given responses)

 

In the end though I think the games are better for it as those situations do add to the background color/game immersiveness

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7 hours ago, Corylea said:

I've finally fought my way through eight million vlishes and reached Pentil, and I'm finding it a difficult place to be, emotionally.  The librarian has spent her entire life copying useless records because they belonged to my people.  The military leader has killed people because they disobeyed shapers who weren't even there anymore.  And just in case I missed the message that these were living, thinking, feeling people, Jeff has given us a sage who's figured out how to tame fyora and a farmer who's sad because her husband died.

 

I find the entire town emotionally difficult to be in; the whole place makes me embarrassed to be a shaper.

 

 

 

 

I had the same thoughts about how horrible the Shapers have been. The words of The Pentil boss in his journal were another punch to the gut. He has killed his followers, manipulated them or had them tortured (you can see all those bloody logs, shackles and whips) for not being loyal enough to the group of people that abandoned them to die 100 years ago. And what is his deepest desire? His guilty thoughts? 
He finds himself at time wishing that a Shaper would tell him he did well. 
THAT is what this person desires and he feels guilty about wanting something from the Shapers. All the leader of the larger group of Serviles, that has blood on his hands, wants is for a Shaper to pet him on the head like a dog and tell him "good boy". 
Rydell's loyalty is admirable but he's loyal to the wrong people. He's a brainwashed creature and a huge waste of potential. The Obeyers make me feel unclean.  They make me feel uneasy in their place. They disgust me.  Not because they are themselves disgusting but because of the disgusting things that have happened to them in order to condition thinking creatures to behave like the beat-up Fyoras the Obeyers have tamed. 

But worry not. There is a solution... 

Down with the Shaper Tyranny! 
Burn Shapers in their ivory towers! You may like or dislike the Canisters and down the line the guys on the Rebellion side are not perfect but they are much better towards the serviles and the thinking creations than the Shapers. You are absolutely correct that being a Shaper is shameful. The Shapers are looking down on the outsider people and lock them out of the knowledge. They are hoarding power pretending they are the only ones wise enough to use it, when the world is littered with the disasters of their making. 
The Shaper Tyranny must end. 

 

Welcome to the Rebellion. We will remake the world to a better place.

I am hovering between Awakened and takers at this point. I didn't think the Takers could have much except "Unlimited Poweeeer!" to convince me but their absolute dedication to die free, knowing how their fight will end but still wanting to fight for it regardless is earning them points in my favor. Yes, they are fanatics. But they strive for freedom at all costs. According to the Taker beliefs they prefer to die standing up than live on their knees.  

Edited by alhoon
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1 minute ago, ultra112 said:

Sadly the Rebellion end up being just as bad if not worse than the Shapers later on. At least one of the most admirable quality the shapers have as a whole is that they understand the concept of when great power comes great responsibility.

 

I haven't played the later games in this series and am hoping not to have spoilers for them!  And since Jeff is re-working this series, the Rebellion could be different, this time around.

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16 hours ago, Corylea said:

 

I haven't played the later games in this series and am hoping not to have spoilers for them!  And since Jeff is re-working this series, the Rebellion could be different, this time around.

 

Don't worry. What @ultra112 says represents his opinion. The games are really not black and white. I strongly disagree with the assessment that the Rebellion was worse. They were (IMO) a significant improvement not just for the Serviles, but for everyone. Sure, to get there a bloody war was needed. But the next day if the Rebels win (the player decides that...) is better than the status quo pro-Rebellion. Or so I think and many disagree with me. 
There are different ways to win GF5 BTW. Different endings + variations for each ending. Your ending may (will probably be) different than my ending. 

 

My opinion, without spoilers is: The Rebellion at its worst was better than the Shapers at their Worst. The Rebellion on its best was much better than the Shapers on their best.  True, the Rebellion at its worst was worse than the Shapers at their best. But that is not a fair comparison. 

 

I think most people that are aligned with the Shapers do so because the first games you play a Shaper. You learn the world from a Shaper's purview with the good and the bad, but you're a Shaper. 

I started the games at GF4 - the Rebellion. So I didn't have the rose-tinted glasses of the 3-games-as-a-Shaper. 
The only game that really made me iffy about the Rebellion is GF3. But I won't give spoilers. 

 

No Spoilers suggestion

 

I honestly suggest you play GF3-GF5 as they won't be ready for several years. And that's where the Rebellion actually starts. Again, in my opinion, GF1-2 are "prequels" to the story, GF3-5 are the main story. GF3-5 form a closer narrative with many major NPCs from GF3 staying around through GF5. 
GF1 -3 are located in small areas, while GF4-5 you play in a laaarge part of the continent and cross many realms.

GF4-5 have a more cohesive system and better graphics. 

In GF3 you start to see Shapers ruling over large groups of people, although to get to an actual city instead of backwards small settlements you have to play for some time. 

In GF1 you see Serviles ruling significant settlements of Serviles and you learn how things were for them when they lived in semi-peace for a century. 

 

I honestly doubt those things would change in the future relaunches. What I believe will happen is better consistency between the games and perhaps extra endings or ending variations. 

 

Edited by alhoon
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4 hours ago, alhoon said:

[...]

My opinion, without spoilers is: The Rebellion at its worst was better than the Shapers at their Worst. The Rebellion on its best was much better than the Shapers on their best.  True, the Rebellion at its worst was worse than the Shapers at their best. But that is not a fair comparison. 

[...]

 

Yours sounds like an observant and nuanced view, and I appreciate your sharing it.  It also sounds so much like the sort of thing I say about other games. :-)  Well, you've already heard me on the Scoia'tael vs. the Order...

 

 

4 hours ago, alhoon said:

[...]

I honestly suggest you play GF3-GF5 as they won't be ready for several years. And that's where the Rebellion actually starts. Again, in my opinion, GF1-2 are "prequels" to the story, GF3-5 are the main story. GF3-5 form a closer narrative with many major NPCs from GF3 staying around through GF5. 

[...]

 

I'm still working my way through the current game.  I have a chronic illness that steals many of my days, so I can't do anything quickly, unfortunately.  But when I'm done with this one, I'll certainly check those out.  Or perhaps Jeff will have published Queen's Wish 2 by the time I manage to finish Mutagens. 😄

 

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15 hours ago, alhoon said:

I think most people that are aligned with the Shapers do so because the first games you play a Shaper. You learn the world from a Shaper's purview with the good and the bad, but you're a Shaper. 

I also started with Geneforge 4, and it's actually what turned me against the rebellion.

 

Won't go into detail why because spoilers, but the first time playing as a rebel (as the default) I just got more and more uncomfortable with it all and ultimately just stopped playing. Later restarted with a character who started listening to the Shapers instead and had a lot less of a problem. I still remember with great fondness how we crushed the rebellion at the end.

 

Geneforge 1, on the other hand... well, I completely share OP's sentiment regarding the Obeyers. Considering they're the pro-shaper faction... they actually did a lot to turn me against the Shapers compared to the rebellion stuff in 4-5. (I played the games in sequence 4, 5, 1, 2, 3)

 

(My shaper character rationalised it as "they're just confused, they've been without guidance so long they've started developing all these weird ideas." But I doubt he's actually convincing himself.)

Edited by Iguana-on-a-stick
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8 minutes ago, Iguana-on-a-stick said:

I also started with Geneforge 4, and it's actually what turned me against the rebellion.

 

Won't go into detail why because spoilers, but the first time playing as a rebel (as the default) I just got more and more uncomfortable with it all and ultimately just stopped playing. Later restarted with a character who started listening to the Shapers instead and had a lot less of a problem. I still remember with great fondness how we crushed the rebellion at the end.

 

Interesting!  You know Jeff has done a good job when people's real emotions and real ethical values are engaged when they play.

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