Is there any penalty for picking a side?

[Corylea]

So, I'm very early in the game, but it's already clear that there are three factions and that I can ally with one of them.  It's also already clear to me that I like the general idea behind the Awakened; equality appeals to me a lot more than either being a slave lord (ugh) or starting a war.  The head of the Awakened will let me join them.  Will Pentil be closed to me or hostile if I join the Awakened right away?

 

I remember in Queen's Wish, it was wise to put off picking a country to name as favored for as long as possible, since there were quests that got closed off if that country wasn't still in the running.  Is it the same general thing here?  My heart wants to lend my dubious Shaper privilege to the people who seem to me to be fair and just, but my head doesn't want to miss out on half the game...

 

[Randomizer]

The remake doesn't penalize you as much as the original version. There are more benefits to joining a faction from Awakened training, Obeyer training in Fyora shaping, or Taker amulet to get through some Sholai control zones. The only real penalty is you can't get Leadership training if you have joined the Takers and a few other places are hostile to you if you mention that you are allied with the Takers.

 

Some factions will only give you quests if you allied with them, but they aren't important.

[TriRodent]

It is also completely possible to go through the game unaligned.  You'll miss out on the assorted quests/training, but I never found them to be 'that' compelling towards picking a side.

 

(now Alhoon's suggestion in the 'new creature' thread where you could only unlock creation advances/buffs if you were aligned with 'x' faction & other buffs for 'y' would be interesting/cool - but for now it doesn't really matter)

[Corylea]

10 hours ago, Randomizer said:

The remake doesn't penalize you as much as the original version. There are more benefits to joining a faction from Awakened training, Obeyer training in Fyora shaping, or Taker amulet to get through some Sholai control zones. The only real penalty is you can't get Leadership training if you have joined the Takers and a few other places are hostile to you if you mention that you are allied with the Takers.

 

Some factions will only give you quests if you allied with them, but they aren't important.

 

9 hours ago, TriRodent said:

It is also completely possible to go through the game unaligned.  You'll miss out on the assorted quests/training, but I never found them to be 'that' compelling towards picking a side.

 

(now Alhoon's suggestion in the 'new creature' thread where you could only unlock creation advances/buffs if you were aligned with 'x' faction & other buffs for 'y' would be interesting/cool - but for now it doesn't really matter)

 

Thanks so much, Randomizer and TriRodent, for your thoughtful responses! 

 

It never occurred to me to stay unaligned for the whole game, since I like what the Awakened are doing, but it's interesting to know that it's possible, and it's cool that Jeff made that work.

[alhoon]

21 hours ago, Corylea said:

So, I'm very early in the game, but it's already clear that there are three factions and that I can ally with one of them.  It's also already clear to me that I like the general idea behind the Awakened; equality appeals to me a lot more than either being a slave lord (ugh) or starting a war. 

 

 

 

I thought at first that I would side with the Awakened. Now, after being at the Taker areas I am not so sure anymore. I don't see myself harming the Awakened to be honest as I like them a lot. But I am hovering between Awakened and Takers at the time. The Takers have guts of steel. I can tell you that. They know their fight would end in annihilation but they are still seeing worth in the fight itself, wanting to die free than live their lives as slaves. They believe their moment of Freedom, the freedom they want to take would be when the Shapers kill them. They LIVE for the moment they will die as martyrs. 
Fanatics? yes. But there is something admirable in that drive for freedom. Especially after I dealt with the obeyers. 

 

All in all, I would suggest NOT joining the Awakened until you speak with the other factions and learn their beliefs. Not just the few words you will hear from their boss, but reading their journals, speaking with the rank-and-file quest givers, see how they live. 
You dislike the Obeyers and I understand that. Are you ready to sabotage them? To 'turn the tide' against them so that they will die off a few at a time as things turn from bad to worse to impossible for them? 
I don't think I can do that. I dislike SOME obeyers and I dislike the beliefs of all Obeyers. But I don't hate every and all Obeyers. I don't know what the Awakened will ask of me, but based on what I have seen from all factions, at some point, each and every one of them will want me to make the life of the other factions harder - to the point their societies will collapse and they will die. 
Perhaps the Awakened are different. Perhaps they want to dominate other two factions instead of completely eliminate them down to the last servile. But I don't hold my breath. The "get with us" quest of the Takers was to go and kill the Awakened boss just because. What has Ellirah done that is so bad to the Takers? He simply doesn't want to jump headfirst to a suicidal war with the Shapers. That's his crime. And by beheading the Awakened (and probably having to kill a bunch of them to get out) they are left weakened at a time that Rogues come in. Rogues that I strongly suspect the Takers are putting there, or the friends-of-the-Takers. 
Screw that. I am not going to eliminate any faction. 

 

Depending on what those quests may be, I may end up not going too far in ANY faction. I disagree with the Obeyers but I will not go and kill them directly, or weaken them to the point they will have trouble surviving. 
I want all the serviles of the island to live as they were before the Invaders showed up. Disagreeing, yes, but coexisting. People with different opinions and beliefs. 

I don't want my side to "win" by eliminating the other sides or forcing them to kneel by breaking their legs. I don't have an easy answer as to what the #### I could do, especially at this point. I would prefer to convince the Obeyers to become like the Awakened and I would prefer to convince the Takers that they should not align with powerhungry invaders and send hordes of monsters to kill other Serviles. 
But I do not want to make the decisions for the Serviles. 

I was and I will keep being a Lifecrafter at heart, not a Shaper. I will avoid making the decisions FOR the Creations when possible. 
And I will keep reloading my game when I lose a creation, even though they don't level up anymore and I can make the exact same creation moments after it was killed. I like my creations. They are not expendable* 

 

 

*With the exception of a bunch of Pyroroamers that I Shaper-ly sent to their doom, moments after they were brought to this cruel world. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by alhoon

[alhoon]

Psss. You liked my post as I was still editing it. I hope you still like it. 

[Corylea]

@alhoon, I haven't fought my way to the Takers yet; I had enough trouble getting past all those %$#@& vlishes to get to Pentil.  But no matter how courageous the Takers are, killing people is not something I want to support.  The Awakened want to be equal, and that resonates with me.  There's no subservience in equality, so I find their point of view quite enlightened.

 

I'm not very far along yet, so I haven't been asked to do anything evil by the Awakened; if I am, of course I'll decline.

 

Back when I was really into The Witcher (the first one), we used to have long discussion about whether to support the Order (a group that oppressed non-human people, such as elves and dwarves but who kept the peace) or the Scoia'tael (a group that fought for the freedom of the oppressed non-human people but who often used unsavory methods in their fight for freedom).  When I played the game for the first time, I thought it was completely obvious that the Scoia'tael were the good guys, and I was shocked when I got to the forum and discovered that about half of the other players were supporting the Order.  I found the discussions interesting, because divorcing the issues from their usual real-world context made it possible to discuss those issues without as much of a personal axe to grind.  Science fiction and fantasy are great for that.

 

I'm amazed at the way computer games can make us ponder moral issues.  Roger Ebert famously declared that computer games were not and could not be art, but I think he was wrong about that. 

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Corylea

[TriRodent]

31 minutes ago, Corylea said:

I had enough trouble getting past all those %$#@& vlishes to get to Pentil. 

 

As an aside... if one way is 'really' hard for you, look around.  There tends to be both a combat way to 'x' & a stealth way to 'x'.  In your case (after the fact) it may have been easier to go north & then east & enter Pentil  from the west.

 

(and of course nothing is preventing you from going that way now & gathering a little more gold & experience...)

[Corylea]

5 minutes ago, TriRodent said:

 

As an aside... if one way is 'really' hard for you, look around.  There tends to be both a combat way to 'x' & a stealth way to 'x'.  In your case (after the fact) it may have been easier to go north & then east & enter Pentil  from the west.

 

(and of course nothing is preventing you from going that way now & gathering a little more gold & experience...)

 

Thanks, that's good to know!

[alhoon]

The time I ended up in Pentil's gates, out of essence and literally in my last breath, wounded and with my creations hovering on death's door because of all those $%#$%$@# Vlish was memorable. 

As I said, I am in-between Awakened and Takers at the time. 

 

If it wasn't for those $%^@#$@ Vlish, I would have gone for the Takers probably. But they had to go and put Vlish everywhere and align with the Sholai. 

 

  

1 hour ago, Corylea said:

Back when I was really into The Witcher (the first one), we used to have long discussion about whether to support the Order (a group that oppressed non-human people, such as elves and dwarves but who kept the peace) or the Scoia'tael (a group that fought for the freedom of the oppressed non-human people but who often used unsavory methods in their fight for freedom).  When I played the game for the first time, I thought it was completely obvious that the Scoia'tael were the good guys, and I was shocked when I got to the forum and discovered that about half of the other players were supporting the Order.

 

I didn't finish the Witcher, but went pretty far. Far enough to have the discussion with my knight Friend from the Order about him thinking I betrayed him and his precious Order by aligning with the "$$$$" (as they were calling the non-humans). It was clear to me that there would be people that supporting the Order although I didn't get in any forums about it, but I was with the Freedom fighters all the way... and I personally I remember some of their choices being ... questionable, but not enough for me to consider them NOT the good guys. 

 

You mentioned you're from a country that abolished slavery 150 years ago. 
I am from a country that had to fight for its freedom several times, overthrowing conquerors and liberating compatriots. Our flag's colors symbolize "Freedom or Death". In the 'enlightment' era of my country, late 18th century, we had songs like "Better live free for one hour, than forty years as a slave". Men were abandoning their villages (under the regime of our conquerors) to live in the mountains and the caves in order to be free. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by alhoon

[Corylea]

15 minutes ago, alhoon said:

The time I ended up in Pentil's gates, out of essence and literally in my last breath, wounded and with my creations hovering on death's door because of all those $%#$%$@# Vlish was memorable. 

 

I'm playing on Easy or Casual or whatever it's called.  I adore RPG's, but that doesn't mean that I'm good at them. :-)  I have too much of a tendency to charge in head-on, when I should be sneaking up. :-)

 

17 minutes ago, alhoon said:

I didn't finish the Witcher, but went pretty far. Far enough to have the discussion with my knight Friend from the Order about him thinking I betrayed him and his precious Order by aligning with the "$$$$" (as they were calling the non-humans). It was clear to me that there would be people that supporting the Order although I didn't get in any forums about it, but I was with the Freedom fighters all the way... and I personally I remember some of their choices being ... questionable, but not enough for me to consider them NOT the good guys. 

 

I was into The Witcher enough that I played it all the way through five times AND made two new adventures for it.  Given that I'm a clinical psychologist in real life -- not any kind of computer expert -- learning to use the toolkit for the first Witcher game was hard, but I was so passionate about the game that I just HAD to.

 

35 minutes ago, alhoon said:

I am from a country that had to fight for its freedom several times, overthrowing conquerors and liberating compatriots. Our flag's colors symbolize "Freedom or Death". In the 'enlightment' era of my country, late 18th century, we had songs like "Better live free for one hour, than forty years as a slave".  

 

Long live Greece! 😉