Is this recolor mod working for the whole trilogy ?

[Varel015]

Hello,

 

I have had the pleasure to discover a spiderweb game, entirely by pure chance with Avernum escape from the pit a month ago.

Being 33 years old, not sure how i missed those games, I am playing the hell out of it and already know i will buy all of them. 

 

A few days ago, I discovered this link : https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/avernum-escape-from-the-pit-recolored-mod-released.119901/

and was seriously impressed after dowloading it to see how much it improves the feeling of the game. It feels much more cave like, and the sound design which was a bit weak is seriously improved with it too. (kudos to it's creator). Way more immersive to me, the guy who did that is freaking talented.

 

Basically my question is simple. I like that overhaul mod so much I'd like to know what i can do about it for avernum crystal souls and avernum ruined world.

From what i get, the 2nd game is still in the cave, while the 3rd might be outdoor.

Has anyone here tried to apply this patch to the 2 next games ? Would be harsh to go back to vanilla for me, if only for the immersive effect.

 

An another note, I'm shocked games like these exist that just no one knows about...

I was playing in parallel with pillars of eternity 2 which i like a lot, and i disagree with all the bad stuff that was said on it.

However after a few weeks I suspended my playthrough of it to focus on avernum. I'm not even sure why.

I'm probably about to roam around those forums for a while and decided to create my account today. 

 

Tchuss from France,

Mat.

[Redemption]

It's very simple to find an answer, or even to do it yourself.  The art of the game is determined by an image file for each piece of art.  If the modification files match the names of the destination files (in your game's folder), then it will overwrite them and replace them.  If not, you may have to change the names of the modification files so they match the original file names of the game folder.  If they don't match, it's possible that the second game's graphics are different than the first game's.  The art may be different sizes, file types, etc.  But it's unlikely because Jeff Vogel likes to save time.  This makes it very easy to modify the graphics on his games.

I always modify his graphics.  Here is the hero art I changed for Avernum 2:

 

[Redemption]

Here's the mod for the art.  It's for Avernum 2 so it's using the Avernum 2 folder names but I assume they'd work for Avernum 1 and 3 also.

 

https://mega.nz/file/3BhjlabR#dT606yrZSK42D-VPohW43LYoRo00RQ_6Jo7R1XQVC_c

Edited April 20, 2021 by Redemption

[Varel015]

Hello Redemption,

 

I'm glad to see there are still people roaming those forums, i was a bit concerned they were too old to even get a reply

I kinda reached the same conclusion after comparing files by files from that graphic mods and avernum 2 game.

Noticed that some files are the same and can be replaced, but most of them a new graphical item would appear, or their place would be changed, or they would be completely changed and thus wouldn't be compatible.

In the end I kept about 10% of the files.

 

The art you just provided is amazing, thx a lot. And yes they look like they would be compatible at least for avernum 1 & 2 (heard avernum 3 was a bit more complicated than on portraits but i will check once I'm done with the 2nd game.) I had replaced the skills art like this but those are better, and about the character art i just couldn't find smth on the net, so it's much appreciated.

 

I intend to play the remix version of avernum 2 too, i refrain from doing it on purpose for first game to get a good feeling of the vanilla exp, and now can see the downsides of it pretty well. From what i saw of the changed of remix mod it's going to improve gameplay.

 

Thx again, seems i'm set for my 2nd game.

 

edit : missing g411 artwork for quick action from your dl file.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Varel015

[Redemption]

No problem but do me a favor:  Whenever someone presents art to you online in a forum, or as a game pack, and it's low quality, consider being honest and telling them.  You wouldn't believe how many reddit forums I have been banned from, simply for saying someone's art pack or newbie artwork is clearly not as good as the vast amount of quality work available online.  People have no sympathy for the user, who must sift through these garbage posts, and there is no sympathy for the hard work that skilled art requires.  If you searched for art packs online, you won't find ones of high quality.  It's a sea of garbage collected in a world where only praise is allowed, and quality is just an accident of nature.  We are clearly a society now that only allows praise, but of course only pays for intense skill.  The losers are people who actually believe what others say: That low-quality is good and effort matters more than outcome.  High expectations are now more socially evil than travesty.

 

I'll fix the g411.

[Varel015]

Your experience with online community seem to be awfully specific XD. 

I understand where you're coming from, I kinda lived a similar thing, but it seems we reached different conclusions.

 

First I suspect that most people ( that could include me as well) have no real idea of what a good art is anyway. I mean i would have much lower expectations than a skilled artist for sure.

However there are basic reasons people tend to defend hard work (or even easy work) for this kind of things :

1) The vast majority of people have no idea how to do it themselves (even for simple things as portraits). Some even can't follow simple instructions on how to apply mods.

2) New moders need support to persist, and crushing them can just push them out.

3) veteran moders can aim to improve themselves thus making you kinda invest into them.

 

For the record, I fall on the 2nd category. I remember making my first and final mod for pillars of eternity 2 a few years ago (my first playthrough) tweaking the monk gameplay and to go along with it I put a portrait found on the net. I contacted the picture author for rights and mentioned that I did not manage to reach the person yet and would remove the picture if necessary. After a few days I had much positive feedback on this because the tweak were wanted for a while from many people. Unfortunately I was denounced for the picture usage, my whole post was banned from nexus who just linked to me my own words "I haven't reached the picture author and will remove it if necessary", and asked me to remove the art.  

Since I found it unfair and brutal, mostly on how communication went, and also knowing that 80% of the art found in others mods weren't even concerned with the issue at all, they just didn't mentioned they didn't have the right, I decided to remove the mod entirely from nexus mod, use it only for my personnal usage, and never look back on the modding scene.

 

All this to say we can't really control online forums, would be a waste of time anyway. Their choice if they don't want your art, my tweaks, or anything proposed to anyone.

But I don't intend to reduce anyone's work for that matter, be it small or big. I'm not sure if you worked on those pictures or if you found it on the net as is, but even the work of finding those is no simple matter for may people and must be acknowledged.

 

In any case, the art you provided to me is vastly improving my gaming experience.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Varel015

[Redemption]

Nice. I made the "funnening" mods for PoE2 and had a similar experience on Reddit.  They downvoted my posts to zero so I stopped posting about it there.  I still can't believe they would downvote something that adds 17 abilities to a class--something very neutrally positive, I would think.  Meanwhile every amateur artwork has 200 upvotes.

[Slawbug]

On 4/20/2021 at 8:48 AM, Varel015 said:

2) New moders need support to persist, and crushing them can just push them out.

 

This, this, this, this, this.

 

This is something we've experienced here, with Blades scenarios.  Kindness is a wonderful thing.  Constructive feedback is also wonderful -- there are ways to say "this quality is bad" that aren't just dumping on someone.  Comments that are honest and supportive are unlikely to get downvoted.

[Redemption]

It's their mom's job to support them. They can never give me back my time.

[Slawbug]

Regardless of what you personally think, if you can be honest while being thoughtful about the person you're talking to, I think you're very unlikely to get downvoted.  The attitude above will get you downvoted -- or moderated -- just about anywhere.

 

Your time matters -- I hate having my time wasted too -- but it is 100% possible to avoid having anyone's time wasted and still have a friendly community.  It's possible to give honest feedback without being a jerk.  (And if for some reason you can't or don't want to give feedback that is honest but kind -- well, your time doesn't matter more than having a friendly community, so that's why you'll find yourself pushed out by downvotes or moderation.)

[Varel015]

Just finished Avernum eftp, setting my avernum crystal souls run.

I installed your graphics, the reremix 3.3 mod, which I think is a mod derived from yours, intentionally left bank so thx, and a few graphics ported from the mod I linked in my original post. The gameplay from reremix seem to be much more polished and makes more sense.

 

This should be good.

I don't have a walkthrough this time around tough, might be even longer (finished first gam in around 130 hours with a guide in hard.)

 

I even kinda decided on my party already :

1) Tank Str/ Int priest shield plus sword. Worked surprisingly good already in my first game because access to both 10 hardiness and 10 resistance makes him unkillable.

2) Dual wield full Str

3) Archer full dex (hopefully the reremix will make bows a thing.)

4) Mage full Int

 

I will have only 1 priest compared to first game but it should be fine.

 

I have to admitt tough, I hesitated a lot between playing the 2nd game or trying one of their other licence such as Avadon. Unlike many people playing these game I imagine I actually like linear stories and class restrictions when it equals better story and better immersion . A smuch as I loved avernum eftp, I could even prefer Avadon.

[Slawbug]

9 hours ago, Varel015 said:

Unlike many people playing these game I imagine I actually like linear stories and class restrictions when it equals better story and better immersion .

 

You're not the only one.  Completely agreed

 

FWIW, I disagree with the bulk of the changes the Reremix made.  It would be hypocritical for a modder to complain about modding  but personally, I still recommend my original mod over the less tightly balanced reremix.

[Varel015]

Now I'm confused hahaha.

 

About your mod, we are talking about this one right : https://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/topic/17278-avernum-escape-from-the-pit-avernum-remix-11-released/ ?

 

Surely this wouldn't work with crystal souls and ruined world, considering the changes to gameplay, added skills and items etc right ?

I assumed this was only for escape from the pit.

Also could you tell me what changes exactly you disagree on and in what general way both mods diverge ? Some of the explanation from reremix changelog about what they did from your mod are vague. But most of it seem to be just text and skills fixing. (some spells reverting tough).

 

Kinda interesting for me to know before I start crystal souls (so far I only created party and can redo it np.)

 

edit : if you dislike the reremix version, why did they even use the same base name for the mod XD, so confusing.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Varel015

[Slawbug]

Ok, now we're both confused

 

I thought you were saying that you installed the reremix and were playing with that... but were you talking about A2:CS and just meant that you installed the graphics portion only?

 

As far as the specific changes... this was a long time ago, but basically, there was just a different approach to game balance.  I put together a carefully constructed balance with battle disciplines, for example, that provided reason to go deep into some of the otherwise suboptimal skills the game offered; this was replaced with much looser requirements, with some skills being removed entirely.  In the change notes, you see comments about my version being "wrong" or needing to be "beefed up" -- this reflects the different approach.  I deliberately wanted to create divergent paths for capable characters to take, each with strengths and weaknesses; the reremix leans a bit more towards making the easily accessible stuff powerful without needing to fuss.

[Varel015]

Now I understand.

 

In the reremix topic here https://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/topic/19120-aeftp-avernum-reremix-graphics-mod/

 

You can find the versions for both crystal souls and ruined world at the end of the first page posted from a member LandonRayW with 2 mediafire links in 2016 (updated in 2020).

So apparently he reworked the reremix for both games. This is what I downloaded. He also mentions every changes to adapt to crystal souls and ruined world from the 2.5 eftp reremix mod.

As I said, I wanted to play at least the first game without any gameplay changes to get a good idea on vanilla exp and how the game works. But now that I am about to play the 2nd game I want a gameplay mod to fix all the gameplay issues that I noticed as all players must have. Too bad you didn't do a remix mod for crystal souls and ruined world

 

Do you know if similar mods exist for other licences such as avadon or geneforge ?

 

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Varel015

[Slawbug]

Lol, so it's a rereremix...

 

I actually did most of one for A2CS, but stalled out before finishing it.  It's a lot of work.

 

I'm a little leery about someone simply transposing the changes from an AEFTP mod onto A2CS, because the game balance is somewhat different in A2CS.  I suspect that with only those changes, you'll still end up with a game where there's really no reason to have any physical attackers whatsoever.

[Edgwyn]

Slartibus, didn't you do one for Avadon 2 or am I misremembering since that was a while ago.

[Slawbug]

I did, and that one also stalled out -- you may be noticing an embarrassing pattern here.  IIRC that one made it to testing -- maybe you were one of the testers?

[Edgwyn]

I think I was, and if I recall correctly, I liked it even though there were a couple of things that did not change the way that you wanted them to.

[Slawbug]

IIRC, I had attempted to completely change the way consumable items worked.  That worked, but it wasn't really a great experience, and I was stuck on what to do with that.