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Need advice on Feisty Slap Glove (LOL) Guardian


BenS
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Alright, last game was Shaper + Helix Bracer all the way. This 2nd game is Guardian + Feisty Slap Glove. I just started using it @ 10th level; upgraded once. (I can't handle those damn clawbugs guarding the 2nd upgrade pool yet.) It seems damage-wise about equivalent to my Steel Sword, but w/ the added benefit of sometimes stunning my foes. I think for damage purposes anyway, the (fully charged) Purifying Blade & Guardian Claymore are the best melee weapons. Has anyone figured out how the Feisty Slap Glove compares to those 2 weapons? My guess is less damage but that could be offset w/ the stun chances.

 

If they're comparable builds, I might leave aside Melee Weapons (currently @ 7) increases and start pumping Strength, as the Glove builds off of that. Though that takes more skill points. I guess I'd keep my best melee weapon around if facing stun-resistant foes; easy to swap out.

 

What might have sold me on this Glove was a fight in the Kazg Ruins, where I got cornered by 3 Battle Betas and started slugging it out, w/ small support from 2 Roamers. Thanks to QA (6 points) & Evasion (5 points), I won that fight. Hilarious and inspiring at the same time. As I've been struggling w/ a Veteran run, that was a good morale boost.

 

I'd love to shatter a pylon w/ the FSG, but only for a laugh, as the explosion makes that a poor strategy. Anyway, for those of you who've either crunched the (invisible to me) numbers or tried this build, let me know what you think. Thanks.

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The Gloves after 2 charging pools are about equivalent to a steel sword with the benefit of daze and fully charged seem to be equivalent in damage to the best swords with the benefit of scum. It's hard to be sure without massive statical analysis since you can't see the numbers, Doarazad pool is sometimes easier to visit than the clawbug guarded one.

 

I like them and I'm in the endgame as a Guardian on torment. However I use batons more often because of the unstable creations and pylons. Plus unless they come into melee I don't want to spend the action points chasing them down and losing a possible second attack.

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Hmm, so I was slightly wrong about 1 charge vs 2 vis a vis the steel sword output. Maybe I rolled high on some rolls in that hilarious slugfest w/ the Betas. Can I ask whether you did indeed put aside Melee Weapons in favor of raising Strength? I see you've favored Missile Weapons. What are your current stats for Strength, Melee W-s & Missile W-s in your endgame build (which might be tilted in some way for a Torment run I guess)? W/out gear, at 10th level, I have 4, 7 and 6 respectively (currently 5, 7 and 7 w/ gear).

 

You might remember from the melee vs missile guardian thread I was going to try getting Melee & Missile W-s to comparable levels (8) before committing to 1. I wanted to make sure I could handle Reaper Batons and the best melee weapons. I suppose it's a bit foolish to keep those 2 stats roughly evenly distributed; especially now that I have the FSG and can leave Melee W-s alone. In fact, had I known ahead of time about the FSG, I might have prioritized Missile W-s and Strength and been better off. Ah well, I can always do a later Guardian run too.

 

I didn't understand "with the benefit of scum".

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Currently I am level 18 with gear and have Strength 4, Agility 10, Melee Weapons 10, Missile Weapons 16, Quick Action 9, and Evasion 11. Gear includes Guardian Cloak, Agent's Shelter, Arcane Band although I might go back to Zavor's Ring, Girdle of Nimbleness, and Dancing Boots (+2 Agility)

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Dancing Boots grant Agility in GF1:M? Interesting. In Exile, they are a cursed item that slows you down, which evokes in my mind uncontrollable dancing that keeps you from moving where you want to go.

 

I wonder how many people grasp the Exile 3 reference with the Feisty Slap gloves. :)

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Boots of Dancing are an old cursed item from Dungeons and Dragons and there was a similar mage spell ,Otto's Irresistable Dancing, that had the target shuffling and not in a good way during combat.

 

Quicksilver Boots give the same amount of evasion and some haste if you aren't interested in the extra missile weapon damage.

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59 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

Currently I am level 18 with gear and have Strength 4, Agility 10, Melee Weapons 10, Missile Weapons 16, Quick Action 9, and Evasion 11. Gear includes Guardian Cloak, Agent's Shelter, Arcane Band although I might go back to Zavor's Ring, Girdle of Nimbleness, and Dancing Boots (+2 Agility)

Thank you for that. I guessed wrong on your build, as you did not in fact go w/ Strength over Melee Weapons once you got the FSG. Looks like you have a build that fires off tons of thorns and is hard to hit by enemies in turn. I am still curious what a high STR build w/ the FSG will do, and I might pursue it just to find out, while not neglecting Missile Weapons either. Sadly there's no retraining in the game short of a cheat code, as I'd modify my skill load out at this point, but I don't want to take the chance that it (like most of the codes) will ruin my achievement pursuits.

 

36 minutes ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

 

I wonder how many people grasp the Exile 3 reference with the Feisty Slap gloves. :)

The original 3 Exile games are the only SW games I've not played, so I did not get that reference!

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12 minutes ago, BenS said:

The original 3 Exile games are the only SW games I've not played, so I did not get that reference!

There's a semi-secret dungeon in the far southeast of Exile 3's world map- and this is preserved in Avernum 3 and Avernum 3: Ruined World, though it remains easy to miss- called the Monastery of Madness. It's populated by, as the name implies, mad monks, and the entire dungeon is an extended spoof of/reference to martial arts B-movies of the 70s/80s. One of the "special moves" the monks strive to learn and master is the "feisty slap of pain."

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39 minutes ago, googoogjoob said:

There's a semi-secret dungeon in the far southeast of Exile 3's world map- and this is preserved in Avernum 3 and Avernum 3: Ruined World, though it remains easy to miss- called the Monastery of Madness. It's populated by, as the name implies, mad monks, and the entire dungeon is an extended spoof of/reference to martial arts B-movies of the 70s/80s. One of the "special moves" the monks strive to learn and master is the "feisty slap of pain."

Of course, now I remember (from the Avernum games)! Not sure why I didn't make the association. Kudos to Jeff for adding this item to the game.

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Hmm. Now I've discovered something that I can't figure out is by design or not. I'm wearing the FSG as well as wielding the fully-charged Purifying Blade. I wanted to do some damage output and compare them (2 upgrades for the FSG so far). I made the assumption that if you're wielding a melee weapon, your attacks would generate from that and NOT the FSG--that it would only proc from being bare-handed, as it were. Yet, that appears not to be true, as the sound of the attack w/ the P. Blade is the "slapping" sound of the FSG; and I occasionally stun my foes for good measure.

 

I can see pros and cons to what I think is happening. Which is that as long as you're wearing the FSG, melee attacks proc from that regardless of what melee weapon you are wielding in that slot.

 

Pros: if the game disregards the attack option of the melee weapon, I might as well put something there that benefits me defensively. For example, I just got a Shielding Knife in the Patrolled Dell.

 

Cons: I can't use a potentially higher damage attack from a sword that might be better than the FSG at the time, unless I remove the FSG and put something else in that slot for the time being; perhaps until more fully charged, it achieves parity w/ the sword. Also, arguably if the FSG will never catch up in damage output w/ the best sword(s), you've likely wasted the 4 charging pools on it instead of the Helix Bracer, regardless of the fact you're running a Guardian, and would assume the FSG was "the" artifact to build up. If that's the case, it's a strange design choice.

 

I'll wield the Shielding Knife and check the damage output etc. to see if I'm correct, and report back.

 

EDIT: Just tested this. The damage continues to come from the equipped FSG glove, ignoring any potentially better damage from an equipped melee weapon. Sadly, the FSG blocks not only any offensive damage output from, say, a sword, it also confers no defensive benefits--proved when my armor stayed at 57% regardless of whether I was wielding the Purifying Blade or the Shielding Knife. The only possible exception might be a melee weapon that gives stat increases, which I suppose my stat sheet would reflect. I suppose I'll look for one of those next.

 

What's odd about this is that it seems like the description of the FSG is telling you to attack unarmed, but in truth it ignores whatever melee weapon you wield anyway. At least in terms of raw damage output or Shielding Knife-type benefits. So, my "Pro" above has disappeared. Ah well, I'm still enjoying pummeling my foes like the Hulk.

 

EDIT 2: I just got Tek's Spectral Dirk, and unlike the Shielding Knife, this does confer all those great defensive buffs, while also seemingly doing FSG damage. I say that b/c the damage output of the Dirk isn't that great, and even w/ Melee Weapons 8, it seems like I'm still doing FSG damage (and I believe most of the time I still hear the "slap" sound effect). I can't figure out what's going on, so I'll try and email Jeff for some clarification.

 

Edited by BenS
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32 minutes ago, Mechalibur said:

Huh, that's really interesting. Definitely seems like the Fiery Slap is being used regardless of whether you have a weapon equipped or not. Probably not intentional, although I'd say it makes the gloves stronger overall if you can still get weapon bonuses.

Yes, I'll report back if Jeff responds to my email, but for the life of me I cannot explain why I get the defensive buffs from Tek's Spectral Dirk but not the (inferior thankfully) Shielding Knife. As far as offensive output, it's definitely the FSG all the way (b/c I still manage to stun foes, and w/ a 3rd charge from a pool now, I can hit for over 200 points of damage sometimes. Presumably critical hits against foes w/ no armor reduction).

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Would you be able to share more details about your current stats? I have a Guardian with 9 strength / 14 melee weapons. The numbers on my Guardian Claymore show 25-117 (+168%). I am wondering if it would have been better to have invested entirely into strength + FSG in the first place.

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17 minutes ago, kuo said:

Would you be able to share more details about your current stats? I have a Guardian with 9 strength / 14 melee weapons. The numbers on my Guardian Claymore show 25-117 (+168%). I am wondering if it would have been better to have invested entirely into strength + FSG in the first place.

Glad to. I'm 15th level, and w/ Zavor's Band and the Guardian Cloak, this is my stat allocation so far (not including another +2 Mechanics for wearing the Tinker's Gloves): 

 

Strength 10

Agility 6

Intellect 4

Essence Mastery 4

Endurance 7

Melee Weapons 9

Missile Weapons 9

Quick Action 8

Evasion 7

 

As for Magic, my weak spot, it goes Battle 1, Mental 1, Blessing 2, Spellcraft 3. As for Shaping, which sort of feels like a weak spot, it's Fire 1, Battle 2, Magic 3, Healing Craft 3. Leadership is 8, Mechanics is 11, and Stealth is 1.

 

I roll w/ a Charged Artila & Energized (?) Vlish; acid is always helpful, and punching a vulnerable foe is quite satisfying 😉 

 

Anyway, as to your original inquiry, I'm not sure how to answer it b/c the damage range is invisible to me. If you've read the thread, it seems like 1-2 charges is equivalent to a Steel Sword, but w/ the added benefit of potential Stuns. Though I could do 150+ easily w/ only 2 charges against certain foes. As to your build, you still might be better off than I am if you get a lot of 2nd attacks due to that high Melee Weapons stat. I'm more dependent on Haste or sometimes QA. And the weapon skills are cheaper to level up than personal stats like Strength. I feel like I need to play another game w/ a Guardian and pump Strength more, while keeping a lower Melee Weapons stat. But I'm having fun and doing well on my Veteran run, and that's what it's all about.

 

It could be that our 2 builds are comparable at the end of the day, which would be good design on Jeff's part.

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Ok, Jeff confirmed that damage comes from wearing the FSG, and not from any melee weapon you might be wielding. However, buffs from said melee weapon are conferred on you. I cannot explain why my example of the Shielding Knife vs. Purifying Blade gave me the exact same Armor rating. I no longer have the P/Blade, and the Shielding Knife gives noticeable buffs (and of course not as much as Tek's Spectral Dirk). So there you have it.

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I'm just keeping track of large damage output, and think I nailed a Sholai mage w/ a critical hit (though the text window didn't display it as such), b/c I hit him/her for 354 points of damage. I'm 17th level w/ a total of 12 points of STR and a fully-charged FSG. Anyway, granted it's an unshielded/no armor opponent, but that's a record so far 🙂 

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20 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

Death blows show full damage and don't show armor/resistnace blocked damage. Still that is a lot.

Yeah, it was a lot! I seem to be averaging in the 250-280 point range, before armor resistances are taken into account. With hindsight, I wasted too many points in Melee Weapons (this build doesn't need more than whatever it takes for Tek's Spectral Dirk, and I have 8 natural points in M.W.).

 

EDIT: I'm guessing since that was well beyond my normal range, that it was indeed a critical hit, but the game doesn't show that b/c it was already a death blow. Either that or the RNG maxed out what my STR could do; I have hit ~300 points on rare occasions.

Edited by BenS
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Just hit another outlier in raw damage; 18th level w/ 12 total STR. Still averaging probably 260-280 points of damage, but I must have nailed a critical hit that was also a deathblow (what is the damage multiplier on a critical anyway? 150%??), as I nailed a Crypt Guardian in the Ancient Crypt for 405 points. It took a...nap...

 

EDIT: In the same fight in the Shaper Crypt, I hit an Ur-Glaahk for 411 points, but a nearby Glaahk for "only" 257. Quite the swingy RNG!

EDIT 2: 18th level, 15 STR, hit the Ornk Lord in The Sentinels for 466 points. This little piggy went ouch ouch ouch.

Edited by BenS
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Ok, final damage records for me: 20th level, used the GF to get my gear-augmented STR up to 23, laid waste to a certain Shaper's minions before I smashed him up real good. Probably averaged around 480-500 points of damage, prior to Armor resistance. Poor Tomato got, um, mashed w/ 576 points, and a particular Cryodrayk took...drum roll...760 points of damage.

 

Final analysis: the FSG allows for a great Guardian build, and I was almost optimized for it (too many points in Melee Weapons). It was also fun & hilarious to the end, so kudos for its inclusion.

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