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(Not a bug) - Melee Weapons + Quick Action % chance of consuming fewer action points?


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Not sure if this is a bug or intended (and if intended, it should probably be explained better in game), but with 16 points in Melee Weapons and 12 points in Quick Action, I had assumed from the tooltips that I'd have a (16x3%) + (12x4%) = 96% chance for Quick Action to proc with every basic melee attack. However, while it does happen quite often, after about 200 attacks I can say it's not 96% - maybe more like 70-80%. Do these separate chances maybe combine multiplicatively instead of additively? Anyone have any insight on this? Adding the confirmed information to Strategy Central would also be helpful.

Edited by mikeprichard
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If I understand correctly:

16 Points in Melee Weapons gives a 1-((1-0.03)^16) = 38.6% chance (not 48%, as would be easily assumed).

12 Points in Quick Action gives a 1-((1-0.04)^12) = 38.7% chance.

16 Points in Melee Weapons and 12 Points in Quick Action gives a 1-((1-0.03)^16 * (1-0.04)^12) = 62.4% chance.

I did a small test of 133 attacks, with 16 Missile Weapons and 12 Quick Action, which resulted in haste 62.4% of the time, supporting the above.

 

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  • mikeprichard changed the title to (Not a bug) - Melee Weapons + Quick Action % chance of consuming fewer action points?

Generally speaking, Spiderweb games tend to process game mechanics like this multiplicatively.

 

On another mechanics note, percentage increases work a bit differently than I would have initially expected. Like, if you have 20% armor, sometimes you see weird things like half the damage being mitigated, or none of it. If I had to guess, I think each point of damage is considered separately for any percentage-based increases or reductions. I think the same works for buff/debuff durations (e.g. if you have 25% extra effectiveness on a Bless effect that normally lasts 4 rounds, each round of the effect has a 25% chance to be increased by 1 round).

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I noticed the same thing with armor, Mechalibur - many of these calculations don't seem to be based on a flat percentage as the tooltip info would have you believe. I think this has been a trend with some of Jeff's more recent games; in general, speaking as someone who enjoys the stat-crunching aspects of CRPGs at least to a point, Spidweb in-game information often seems unfortunately somewhat unclear with things like this.

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Armor blocking damage calculated for each point goes back quite a bit in games. It's why to os better to have the largest percentage items instead of several smaller ones.

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1 hour ago, Randomizer said:

Armor blocking damage calculated for each point goes back quite a bit in games. It's why to os better to have the largest percentage items instead of several smaller ones.

 

I'm not talking about how armor stacks with itself multiplicatively, I mean how the actual calculation for damage received works once you already know your overall armor. For example, in the Avernum remakes, if you have 20% armor (on normal difficulty), you'll block 20% of physical damage received all the time, right? That's not the case in Mutagen - I've seen 20% armor block over 50% of an attack's damage on rare occasions.

Edited by Mechalibur
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Yeah, this has been the case since at least Nethergate: Resurrection.

 

I don't think it's one check per percentage point of blocking, though.  I think it's one check per potential point of damage.

 

I don't know that we know for 100% sure that is how the mechanic works but somebody did some testing once (Lilith maybe?) and IIRC that was the best fit.

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14 hours ago, Randomizer said:

Avernum had the same thing as Geneforge has now. A 20% piece of armor chess 20 times to see if each point blocks damage.

 

Ah, I didn't realize that. Thanks for the clarification! 

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