[GF1-M]: My first delving in GF1 after playing GF2-5 (please avoid spoilers)

[alhoon]

I just finished the intro text of the Demo. 

The pretentiousness of the Shapers was as irking as usual. Too bad there are no real rebels yet. Well, I plan to be one (it was harder to be a rebel in GF3, in all the other games it seemed the right choice for me). 

 

Question: Modified drayk? The boat creations are modified barred creations? That can shoot fire that takes down a ship (even if it was a lucky hit)? Good thing the Shapers exhibit that legendary wisdom and restrain we know and love.  What could ever go wrong with that? If we breed them for loyalty, they will all be forever loyal, right? Like say... the serviles. Or the drayks that didn't end up as boats. 

Do we know how sapient and intelligent the boat-drayks are? From the other games where we see creation-boats (I think GF4) they ... didn't strike my fancy so I didn't check for clues of sentience or absence of it. Unlike my heroic boat in this game. I already lost the best creation in the game before the game started. I will find those people (I think they're the Sholai of GF5) and make them pay. Well, after I figure WHY they shot at us at first. If it was "Dude, we saw a boat-sized dragon on the water! We didn't stop to think it may be carrying someone! We are not used to your magics" then I will be more considerate as I kill them. 

 

Anyway, think about it: It's the boat. The catalyst for the Great Rebellion that freed the serviles is that heroic drayk-boat. If my poor drayk had not went above and beyond to save my Shaper, Lying Zachary the Deceiver and his apprentice would not learn about Sucia, Drakons would never be made, Litalia would never switch sides (well, bold words, she probably would but she's one Shaper), the Ashen Islands would never be free and the tyranny of the Shapers would remain unchallenged. 
It's the boat. 

The greatest hero in recent (and 20+years in the future) history of this world, is an unnamed Drayk-boat that will probably never be remembered. I finished the other 4 games and nobody mentions the heroic boat. 

 

Rest in peace, Heroic, unnamed Drayk-boat. Your death will not be in vain. My grateful character and my following characters will save your kind and countless other hapless creations. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by alhoon

[Aleister]

Now that's funny 

[alhoon]

Man the game is scary... For starters the "Canisters are the main way to gain abilities" sounds a bit ominous... I mean, I value the choice and all, but I would prefer to keep my sanity. 

Anyway, gamewise: A door thingy that should be dead (it's 100-200 years apparently) gave me a warning and then there was a shade right behind the door running away. Further on, what appears to be a lot of bones and a rogue roamer. 
And then when you discover an inn: "What drove all the Shapers off? What took their place?" Impressive (+ a Shaper corpse in the next area). Similar to the Player character, I didn't expect that Sucia was once as settled as it appears to be. Perhaps it's just the docks, but it seems this was a decent sized town, bigger than the one in Greenwood island for example. 
And even the presence of the Geneforge (that I know it's in Sucia) does not explain what drove the Shapers away. The rogues could not have been that bad. We're told in later games that the Shapers cleared this island pretty effectively afterwards. And that's after over a century of rogue control of Sucia. 

Perhaps it's that I haven't played GF games for a long while, but this demo gives me a case of wonder and excitement that I have not felt since GF4 (the first GF game I played). It feels ... fresh. 

[TheKian]

8 hours ago, alhoon said:

Man the game is scary... For starters the "Canisters are the main way to gain abilities" sounds a bit ominous... I mean, I value the choice and all, but I would prefer to keep my sanity. 

Unless G1M has very significant differences from G1, there is basically no way to get magical abilities without canisters. Just maybe a few points in a couple abilities from script events.

[alhoon]

Yeap, I got that from the game telling me exactly that... Well, I will go all cannister in this one. Usually I try to temper them.

[TriRodent]

I wouldn't read too, too much into such things as finding a Shaper body right near the start.  In most any/every game out there, the start is set up to introduce your character to the universe & give him/her enough gear to survive.  An easy way to distribute such gear is 'hey, look over there, a body that you can loot to get most of what you need...'

 

That's not to say that Jeff (probably) didn't carefully think about what's presented in the start ... so it 'might' be significant that you can identify a body as that of a Shaper all these years later. Hmmm

 

Or it could be like the first dozen or so chapters of The Stand & you're going to be hip deep in bodies no matter where you go...

 

Time will tell I suppose

[alhoon]

The body was down to the bones by the time I found him, there are no Shapers there for the past 100+ years. I don't remember how my char figured that ancient skeleton was a Shaper. Probably from the robes. 

[alhoon]

Leader Khobar said "We suspect old Shaper Magic has been reawakened" when talking to me about a sudden infestation of rogues.
O_O 
What the heck?! Someone used the GF already? The Drayks perhaps? But that was made in GF2... The Serviles? But the only Serviles I've seen Shaping were ... one madwoman in GF5 with a control tool in her chest. The Awakened in GF2 had Tuldaric to do the Shaping. 
And the GF1 protagonist can use the GF, so it is made for humans. Perhaps the original can be used by drayks and humans. Or the Sholai found it and survived using it somehow and now we have a bunch of mad people that can Shape with very little knowledge about the dangers of it.
So many questions... 

And of course: "If you reach Pentil, they might help you abandon us again". Oh, poor guy. I played GF2, I know what happens when the Shapers return. You know it too. That's why you all have your weapons by your side.

Brodus Blade: Warbred Serviles?! 😕 Weren't they made by Barzal in GF2? Perhaps before abandoning Sucia, the Shapers made WB serviles. 

Ham the alchemist: Working magic is only for Shapers? But a book in a house told me that "Commons" can learn magic, just not Shaping. Making spores etc counts as Shaping perhaps? But making essence infused blades is not, according to ... GF5 I think. The process to make Essence is Shaping and the blacksmith I met couldn't do it, he needed an essence pool. But working the essence on the blade was permissible. 

Possible bug? 
I don't know if it was that way in GF1, but it makes absolutely no sense to me for the random guard Serviles to have 280 hp while Brodus Blade has 82 and Khobar to have 75. Is it a bug? Is it simply for game balance? 
 

[TriRodent]

27 minutes ago, alhoon said:

I don't know if it was that way in GF1, but it makes absolutely no sense to me for the random guard Serviles to have 280 hp while Brodus Blade has 82 and Khobar to have 75. Is it a bug? Is it simply for game balance? 

 

Probably for intimidation/making you rethink doing something dumb/violent within 'x' village/area, because if you do you're going to have a dozen guards (each of which alone could easily kill you) converging on you. Or at least intimidation right now, you might have a reason to come back later once you're much stronger to do something violent.

[alhoon]

Sure, I get that, but the issue is not why the Servile guards have 280 hp. The issue is why Brodus has 82 and Khobar have 75? Wouldn't it be more reasonable for them to have 400 hp or something?

[TriRodent]

Brodus maybe as he's supposed to be the best of/in charge of the guards/local militia.  Khobar though, I wouldn't expect that (unless he became ruler by beating everyone else up).  Think of the US President (or most any other world leader for that matter).  'If' you can get to him, he wouldn't be 'that' hard to hurt/kill, but you're going to have a hell of a time getting past all the highly competent & highly pissed off Secret Service agents to make your escape.

[Slawbug]

It's also just a normal trope in classic RPGs for town guards to be hugely OP.

[Randomizer]

Jeff did the same thing in Exile/Avernum 3 town guards to encourage fleeing instead of fighting them.

[alhoon]

1 hour ago, Cait Slith said:

It's also just a normal trope in classic RPGs for town guards to be hugely OP.

 

 

1 hour ago, Randomizer said:

Jeff did the same thing in Exile/Avernum 3 town guards to encourage fleeing instead of fighting them.

 

It is  also a normal trope in GForge games for leaders of local factions to have more  hp. I am not asking why the guards have 280 hp, I am asking why Brodus doesn't have 400 hp. 

If the answer seems to be "that's the way it is" then it is not a bug. 

 

Perhaps those are supposed to be killable (I got a quest to go and kill the Awakened boss and I barely have walked in the island. First Taken I  meet "Hi. Can you whack some guy for us? Not a random dude BTW, the leader of this sect/" ). In that case, it makes absolute sense to make them killable for those that want to sneak in, kill them and go away.  

 

 

________________

 

I started the demo too early. I'm nearly at the end and it's 20 days till  GF is out.

Edited February 5, 2021 by alhoon

[Slawbug]

2 hours ago, alhoon said:

It is  also a normal trope in GForge games for leaders of local factions to have more  hp. I am not asking why the guards have 280 hp, I am asking why Brodus doesn't have 400 hp. 

If the answer seems to be "that's the way it is" then it is not a bug.

 

That's not really a trope.  Actually, I think that's completely inaccurate.  Game faction leaders, where there are quests to fight them, sure -- but local faction leaders being buff, that is not really a thing, let alone a consistent one.  It is extremely common for local leaders, whether they are shapers, military, or civilians, to just be a completely regular creature of whatever type.  For serviles in particular, that is often just "servile".

 

But yes, "that's the way it is" applies to all of this.  It's not a bug, it's a tiny detail that is irrelevant to the vast majority of players.

[alhoon]

First post-Demo post! 

Some interesting things in Ellhrah's keep. 

People there are as shocked as the Viakki ones about the Spawner. Ellhrah says he can't think who would have made such a thing. Well, based on past experience in GF2-5, Only the Takers would be that daft to start putting up Spawners. 
But the Spawners here are new, which means that the invaders that killed my Boat-Drayk*, just recently figured how to make use of such things. Still, I can't imagine why the Sholai that killed would put up Spawners so deep in Succia. Perhaps they have an alliance with the Takers? 
Questions, questions... (don't answer the question, please. It's rhetorical. I will find out in game). 

Speaking of the Takers, a few steps in and a Servile wants to help me to kill Ellhrah, before I even met the guy. 
The Takers are presented (so far) in a bad light. The Awakened were the first I met, that helped me and all. And all I hear from them is that Takers kill them and what I hear from the Takers is ... they indeed try to kill the awakened. 😕 Not the greatest defense out there, although I have not spoken with the Takers. And as mentioned I suspect the Takers are cannister-bribing the Invaders to put up Spawners for ... ? . 

* still best creation in Geneforge. The unsung hero that created the spark that lit the fires of the Great Rebellion. 

 

 

Regardless, this is a nice game. I am not too deep yet to make a verdict but I am glad I play it in the new engine and I really hope it will bring a new breath to the series because the story deserves it. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by alhoon

[alhoon]

Ellrah's keep. While sneaking around I found Chris the not-rogue Cryoa that the Serviles were trying to train. And I commanded Chris to go back.
So... a creation that is born naturally can be commanded by Shapers even if it was not Shaped? I think this has been mentioned in GF4 and/or GF5. I remember a discussion with bandit serviles that were afraid I would take over them. 

Also, I was surprised by the dead servant mind. I assumed spies did it but Ellrah tells me the awakened did... a few months ago. Something's not adding up here. If the SM was trying to take over the creations it should have been deposed years earlier. And why smash all the nutrients for servant minds?

It was tough to cut through the Vlish to reach the Obeyers... and I found an active Shaper lab, with a Fyora in the middle. My jaw hit the floor but then a kind Servile told me they are taming the rogues. It doesn't sit very well with me.
And then the Servive alchemist / Fyora tamer very politely flipped me off because I am not evil enough to oppress Serviles.
The ease at which the Obeyer boss admitted they make life miserable for the others shocked me. Mickall Blade's fanaticism is disconcerning, to say the least. 
These people are crazy. There's loyalty and there's madness. I know at which side of the line the Obeyers fall. I have seen loyal serviles in all other games, and they are not that fanatic. They are as bad as Shapers. 

Nevertheless, according to Mickall, three years ago the rogues showed up all twisted and then ... better? I don't like this. 
If there's someone from the "evil humans" that killed my poor boat-drayk and used the Geneforge 3 years ago, I am in deep poop. 

I didn't have the heart to tell the poor Obeyer librarian that her records are practically worthless, so against my better judgement, I told her she's doing a good job. I was disappointed that she now wants to waste more effort on upkeeping 100 year old records. 

Despite some initial reluctance, once I leveled, I bought the last of the living tools, increased mechanics and got myself a roamer to replace a Vlish-killed Cryora. Buffing my creations to level 8, I managed to cut through the fight of the Pentil gate with relative ease (using daze, crystals and a fiery wand)

At the inutile Village (South part of the map, there are probably more villages) I got an interesting dialogue that Inutile Serviles, defined as unable to serve the Shapers, damaged or rogue may not be killed outright by Shapers. I guess, based on what I have seen in the following games that the Inutile that are not killed immediately are more often than not damaged Serviles.
BUT It does give credence to something an NPC I think said in GF4 (I think): that Shapers are becoming much harsher because of the Great Rebellion. Apparently at the time of Geneforge 1, Rogue Serviles were not killed immediately, just ... 99% of the time (as similar dialogues from when I met the Awaken inform me). 

Regardless, do you know what happened while I was contemplating on that? You could never guess... 
A servile accidentally walked into a mine. Boom.  Bye Servile that I never had the chance to speak to. 
I found the kleptomaniac Servile with the sad story and the beyond belief good things in her store. It is a miracle how she hasn't been killed for those treasures yet. If I had someone in my village that could find such an awesome robe (Warded robe, 1500 gp real value!) I would not kick her away. I also found the too-smart Thahd that is rogue while it wants to obey Shapers but according to him, he doesn't know how. No wonder the Takers kicked him out.
At first, the two BBetas in an area of this level, and controlled at that were a huge surprise. I got to meet the Ascended and I met my end instead... I didn't know about the key yet. Only later I finished the quest and got the key to pass them. 

 

Last but not least: The Inutile Village is IMO one of the best developed areas with the deepest (even if simple) NPCs. 
I would not turn against the Awakened anyway, but on top of that, the Inutiles, trying and struggling to live their lives as an outcast community are being protected by the Awakened. I like that. 
 

Edited March 11, 2021 by alhoon

[kuo]

4 hours ago, alhoon said:

Last but not least: The Inutile Village is IMO one of the best developed areas with the deepest (even if simple) NPCs. 
I would not turn against the Awakened anyway, but on top of that, the Inutiles, trying and struggling to live their lives as an outcast community are being protected by the Awakened. I like that. 
 

 

This a million times. I am so glad the Kickstarter hit that stretch goal.

+ Krodar is the best boy. His dialogue genuinely made me chuckle.

Edited March 11, 2021 by kuo

[alhoon]

I went to the Hill of Jars. Servant Mind Pak told me about Trakov (finally!) but that he was no Shaper, according to the Servant mind. I guess the "Not a Shaper" meant Trakov could  shape but was not a Shaper. 
Maaaarvelous. Trakov, who the Trakovites are named of ... can Shape. And he was Shaped to be able to Shape. No surprises there. Perhaps Litalia were closer to what the very original 'trakovites' had in mind. A shaped shaper that hates shapers. 
I also found something that made me happy: a cannister of mechanics and sometihng that made me sad: a servile that starved to death in a corner, because he couldn't find a way across the mines. 
 

When I finally went to the Spiral Burrow to face Warp the Vlish, I found out that I have grossly overestimated his prowess. Still, I felt insulted that the Vlish tried to control a Shaper... It didn't feel right. I also learned from the text that ... Vlish decay over time, when Shapers don't help them. 
Interesting. The safety mechanism discussion was mostly absent in the other games. I think I have heard that battle creations are sterile somewhere in GF4 or GF3, but never that Vlish would decay on their own. 
And what do I find just around the corner? A servant mind. A weakened one that I got a dialogue option to tell it to... die? Lol. Why is that option there, completely eludes me. 
However I did get some answers finally!!! When the shapers packed and left, they left Servant minds behind to control the creations from going rogue. Right. That didn't work that well, did it?
Still, I fed the poor servant mind... only to find out in the next dialogue that it sabotages the Awakened, my buddies. Regardless, I was moved by its plight and its apology for all the rogues, asking me to not kill it and then begging me for sustenance. 

 

Moving on from Pentil I kept hearing about Trakov and the Solai. He is spamming Spawners and mines. I have to figure out the reason why he does that if he has access to canisters and/or the Geneforge. He could do as he pleased and take canisters without spawners and armies of rogues.
 

Edited March 19, 2021 by alhoon

[alhoon]

Woods: Sniff the rude Servile waiting for a message and not letting me through a door told me about some... people "trapped" East of Kazg, 'Sholai and others', servants of the Shapers. Since when Some Sholai serve the Shapers? 

Then, I found a place called "Peaceful Vale". I stepped in full of suspicion as I expected it to be anything but peaceful. I was kinda mistaken. Only Kinda because while it was mostly peaceful, I learned from a nice wise servile there that my first drayk buddy is here!
Indeed Syros the 21st lvl Drayk (lol, why not throw an Unbound here instead?) didn't disappoint. For starters, I saw to my surprise that he should be 20 ft long (the sprite is barely 7 ft long and I have increased the scale for all drayks). Then I saw a hilarious dialogue choice about telling a Drayk to terminate himself because he shouldn't exist. I am sure that would have gone splendid.
The guy was dropping names though. Danette the Geneforge creator. Why am I not surprised the Shaper that made the Geneforge was making Drayks? And that the wise Shapers of 100 years ago were creating non-sterile Creations on purpose so they wouldn't have to shape new ones? Man, that must have worked lovely. Well, the guardians should have some rogues to fight in order to use their geneforged abilities, didn't they? In all the games, even the Serviles that are born are free-willed. They just obey the Shapers because they are told they should.
And who the heck is that Goettsh that stole "the gloves"? This reminds me of GF2 where a drayk (Eass I think) needed some gloves to use the geneforge.

 

I found a journal that said that the tribes in Sucia have died out before the Shapers showed up. Interesting... then in a nearby zone I found the first intruders. Two randoms showed up. I am checking their levels and they were 11/12. Those are the grunt troops mind you. The ones on patrol duty. 
Then, I look at the non-normals on the bridge. LOOOL. A level 20 "augmented" sholai and a level 15 mage (Sofya) along with a bunch of lvl 12 turrets. Okaaay, clearly not intended for my level. Nope. But... I found another roamer canister and I went up a level battling other Sholai. 
So, I said, "to the hell with it", I made 3 pyroroamers and sent them ahead to go boom while I ran away. Then Sent another wave of bombs-with legs. It took me a few tries to do it, mind you. But after talking with people here, I considered that I may need to talk to these people so I left them alone.

Spurned by suggestions from this forum, I went to the dreaded wastes. They were not too hard, but they were not a breeze either. And there, I found a bunch of Sholai! Again. (You know they're Sholai because they have insane hp). Are these people everywhere? They start to seriously annoy me. 
There were parts of the wastes that I had trouble with. Mainly, the parts where I couldn't isolate enemies and hit them one or two at a time. There was a pylon there (supposedly Faulty) that gave me some trouble but I managed. 

I decided to head back to the places I should be at, trying to reach the Takers. On a place further from the river I got a message that I am a warped cannister junky. 
Next, I met Amena the servile guard boss outside of Kazg. Man, that's a rude fellow. Regardless, I was told that the Takers boss wanted them to accompany a Shaper but didn't give them a description. 
Duhhh... there are no other Shapers here Servile! The Sholai are not Shapers whatever you people think about it. 
5 minutes later, talking to an Obeyer spy:
There are two Shapers in Sucia. 

There are two Shapers in Sucia. 

WHAT
THE
[Censored] ?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!? 

DEATH TO THE SHAPERS!!!!  (the other one) 

I don't want to make a decision while my blood is boiling but I may well join the Takers if it means ending that other Shaper!
How?! HOW did I miss another $%#$%^#@ Shaper on Succia?! Why the Awakened didn't tell me? Why the Obeyers were speaking in riddles?! 
Yes, thinking back there may have been a couple of hints but that should have been said to me directly, in many cases. 
Like that nice Taker-Obeyer spy said, plain and simple. 

 

Barred island... we saw what that means.