Geneforge 5 Joining the Bandits?

[Vinlie]

You can join the bandits in G5, correct? And if so, can you actually get a bandit ending to the game, where you essentially destroy both the rebels and the shapers or is it something completely different? I'm fine with spoilers because I just finished a run of the game not too long ago so I'm kind of burnt out and not looking to invest more time unless it's actually worth it

[Slawbug]

There are 5 joinable factions in G5.  Bandits are not one of them.

[Vinlie]

Oh, I thought that that would've been the case seeing how there are a lot of bandits throughout the game, plus a bandit you could let go presumably to let Bennhold know that you could be trusted, sort of Keeper Tycho-esque. In that case, do any of the factions take on both the Rebels AND the Shapers at the end of the game?

[Slawbug]

There are two that sort of fit in that category, depending on what you mean by "take on."

[Vinlie]

My definition would be to take them on in their home turf. Is there a faction that allows you to defeat the Shapers in the Shaper Citadel Dome as well as Ghaldring in the back area of Gazaki-Uss, or is it always just one or the other

[alhoon]

5 minutes ago, Vinlie said:

My definition would be to take them on in their home turf. Is there a faction that allows you to defeat the Shapers in the Shaper Citadel Dome as well as Ghaldring in the back area of Gazaki-Uss, or is it always just one or the other

 

So far, one or the other. 

 

And it would be hard to mod it otherwise. 

 

Hard, but possible. Not too difficult, mind you, just quite long. In effect you have to write a lot of text to explain it.
Then in the first of those fights, you have to eliminate the Shaper or Drakon allies. 
Second you have to make sure that killing the big boss doesn't end the game but instead leads you to the 2nd part. 
Then you have to eliminate the Shaper or Drakon allies from the 2nd part. 

 

And yes, all those are possible through script manipulation. You don't even have to deal with zonelab or Hex editing as you simply remove allies and rewrite script. 

But it's a lot of work. 

 

What you CANNOT DO (or better, I don't know how it could be done) is to change the ending text. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by alhoon

[TheKian]

Trakovites and the 3 Shaper options (Alwan, Taygen and Astoria) fight Ghaldring and only Ghaldring. When allying with the rebels, you fight the Shapers and only the Shapers. Those are the only factions.

[alhoon]

1 minute ago, TheKian said:

Trakovites and the 3 Shaper options (Alwan, Taygen and Astoria) fight Ghaldring and only Ghaldring. When allying with the rebels, you fight the Shapers and only the Shapers. Those are the only factions.

 

Unless you mod it, as I mentioned above. 😉

[TheKian]

Just now, alhoon said:

 

Unless you mod it, as I mentioned above. 😉

As regards ending text, you can view it in the executable using a hex editor. As I previously explained re quest descriptions, the only legal way to distribute a mod for it would be with a patcher.

[alhoon]

1 minute ago, TheKian said:

As regards ending text, you can view it in the executable using a hex editor. As I previously explained re quest descriptions, the only legal way to distribute a mod for it would be with a patcher.

 

I still don't think it's legal even with a patcher. Unless there are parts in the discussion that I have missed.

Edited December 10, 2020 by alhoon

[Vinlie]

I see. That's realistic but somewhat disappointing I gotta say, I think it would've been really cool if you could join the bandits and essentially kamikaze the entirety of western terrestia haha. Thanks anyways friends 

[alhoon]

2 minutes ago, Vinlie said:

I see. That's realistic but somewhat disappointing I gotta say, I think it would've been really cool if you could join the bandits and essentially kamikaze the entirety of western terrestia haha. Thanks anyways friends 

 

Learning to mod the script is not that hard, just saying... 

and Kian's Zonelab could help you create / replace a couple of zones without too much effort, just throwing it there... 

 

I would certainly like to play a bandit that went against both sides and won. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by alhoon

[Vinlie]

Once I get laid off this winter I may just look into it

[TheKian]

17 minutes ago, alhoon said:

 

I still don't think it's legal even with a patcher. Unless there are parts in the discussion that I have missed.

What Slarty said is that patches can be in a somewhat legally gray area but have been upheld by courts. The kind of patch I'm talking about is even less legally suspect because it doesn't involve reverse engineering the code or distributing the code with alterations, just changing text. Slarty's suggestion, with which I'd agree, is to ask Spiderweb for permission before distributing anything like it.

[alhoon]

Well, if Vinile or you or someone else makes it, I will certainly be willing to play it. 

[Slawbug]

26 minutes ago, TheKian said:

What Slarty said is that patches can be in a somewhat legally gray area but have been upheld by courts.

 

I did not say the second part, and I in fact linked to a Wikipedia article that states: "while redistributing complete games with adaptions most likely does not fall under fair use, distributing the modifications as a patch might be legally permissible; however, that conclusion has not been tested in court."

 

I definitely did say the other part though.  Asking Jeff would be the courteous thing to do, for a small-time designer that is pretty good to his fans.  If he says go for it, you're definitely in the clear legally; and if he says no, then you can't share it here regardless of anything else.

[TheKian]

3 hours ago, Sealing Librarian said:

 

I did not say the second part, and I in fact linked to a Wikipedia article that states: "while redistributing complete games with adaptions most likely does not fall under fair use, distributing the modifications as a patch might be legally permissible; however, that conclusion has not been tested in court."

I guess I misread the article; it mentions a court upholding what appears to be a system that patches games (including Nintendo games) at runtime.

[alhoon]

And before we put  the cart in front of the horse... is anyone willing to make such a modification that includes a patch for the ending? Or it's an academic discussion?

[TheKian]

3 minutes ago, alhoon said:

And before we put  the cart in front of the horse... is anyone willing to make such a modification that includes a patch for the ending? Or it's an academic discussion?

As I have mentioned at some point in the past, I eventually plan to add a feature to GeneMS where people can make ending/quest modifications and then use GeneMS to apply it to the executable. After asking Jeff for permission, of course. Haven't had much time lately, though.

[Slawbug]

That's a long way of saying "Game Genie"

 

That's pretty different -- although it does "patch" the game at runtime, it literally patches a couple of bytes, and it doesn't use a premade patch -- you enter a code that just tells it which single byte to patch.  So that's more of a patcher than it is a patch itself.  It's also limited to a few extremely tiny modifications.  Not really relevant here, that's all.