Rotghroth Rhapsody madrigan Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 (edited) I finished my fourth playthru and this time my angle was to support the Blessed in Ahriel and then tell the Queen that I wanted to take the throne, thinking that in the future I could drive the Blessed out of power completely. No idea if this will be possible in future games, but the code I got at the end this time was very different from my prior ones. Anyway, this ending was pretty dull and the impact was not integrated into the rest of the game. I talked to Istara, and Lonius, and the various Watchers, and then finally I went to High Elovo and agreed to kneel, because who cares really. Then I returned to Istara thinking I would catch hell, but the dialogue was the same as in my prior games when I supported the Trench Towns. She still asked me to humiliate the Watchers, which I did, and Peadar came out to get killed, and then the council wouldn't talk to me anymore, and Istara said she was going to Elovo. This was pretty disappointing. I supported the existing rulers in the Ukat as well, but the other clans actually reacted to this, at least in dialogue. I realize Jeff can't come up with awesome changes for every choice I make, but choosing the Blessed was pretty much exactly the same as doing the opposite. It was a letdown. Edited November 24, 2019 by madrigan typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Ess-Eschas Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 (edited) That's because you didn't actually activate the Blessed ending! You were seeing the ending for the Trench Towns, which is why everything felt so similar. Once you've bowed to the Watchers, they will give you an idea of what you need to do next. Remember, to them, Istara is of no importance – she has little say in the goings on in the Ahriel Woods, and is supportive of those they believe are below their notice. You don't need to talk to her at all: Spoiler Rather, all you need to do is to bow to the Watchers, sign the contract, and then report this directly to General Toru. That's all! Once you've done that, you'll find the game reacts quite differently to your actions. Edited November 24, 2019 by Ess-Eschas Adding some slight clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody madrigan Posted November 24, 2019 Author Share Posted November 24, 2019 I did report it to the General, but that part made sense so I didn't mention it.. He and his staff were appalled, but I didn't see a difference in my interaction with Istara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Ess-Eschas Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 1 hour ago, madrigan said: I didn't see a difference in my interaction with Istara. That is a slight problem, and may indicate that a flag isn’t being set correctly within the game. I’ll look into that, since Istara has a few lines of dialogue commenting on a decision to support the Watchers. However, this doesn’t resolve the issue. The ending for the Watchers requires no interaction with Istara whatsoever. Once you’ve spoken to General Toru and asked the battalion to support the Watchers, that’s it. The Watchers have become your vassals, and you don’t need to do anything else in the Ahriel Woods. Why do you want to speak to Istara after doing this? Everything else you list above is deliberately undermining the Watchers, who are now your vassals. The end result is that you’re basically overriding your choice of supporting the Watchers, instead replacing that choice with supporting Istara instead. That’s why no-one is acting differently to your actions – you’re not seeing the ending for the Watchers, you’re effectively seeing the Trench Town ending. Think of it this way. What you’re doing is a little like, say, trying to support the Mascha. You break the Owen’s defences, and report this to the Mascha. You then sign a contract with them. However, you then decide to break the Mascha’s own defences and tell your army to fight for the Owen instead, destroying the Mascha’s power base and freeing the Owen. Are the Mascha going to obey your contract now? Of course not! You’ve sided with the Owen in spite of your previous decision. That’s what’s happening here. You’re overriding your decision to support the Watchers by destroying their power base and siding with their enemy instead. The end result is that you are supporting the Trench Towns, even if that’s not your intent. Try going through this again without talking to Istara after talking to General Toru. The experience should make more sense after that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody madrigan Posted November 24, 2019 Author Share Posted November 24, 2019 If I try another playthru I'll try that, but why wouldn't I talk to Istara after siding with the Blessed? I talked to Brackdon Cawr after siding with the Borgen, and he's angry but he doesn't offer me a quest that angers the Borgen. I talked to the Mascha leaders after siding with the Owen, and they're unhappy but they don't ask me to attack Madraka. Neither of those interactions offered dialogue options that nullified my previous choices to any degree. Once I side with the Blessed, shouldn't Istara's dialogue requesting that I humiliate the Blessed be omitted? If the dialogue is there I assume there is some logical reason for it to be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Ess-Eschas Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 1 hour ago, madrigan said: Once I side with the Blessed, shouldn't Istara's dialogue requesting that I humiliate the Blessed be omitted? Yes, it probably should be! As I mentioned above, it’s likely that you’ve stumbled across a bug in Istara’s dialogue chain, probably resulting from an incorrectly set flag. However, what concerns me here is that you’re using this bug to make a number of claims that people could find misleading. For instance, you’re claiming strongly here that you dislike the ending for the Watchers because it’s similar to the ending for the Trench Towns. That is not the case. The two endings require entirely different actions, and result in entirely different outcomes. You’ve experienced similar endings because of a potentially confusing way in which the dialogue is put together. That’s unfortunate, since you’ve gone through a series of actions that are unnecessary. I’m sorry you’ve experienced the game in this way. If there’s a bug here or not, there might well be something to clarify in the way the dialogue is put together – if there’s time before the next update, which is due quite soon now. Just to be clear, all I’m trying to do here is to try to clear up some confusion about these two endings, and to make sure no-one else gets confused by our discussion on here! Personally, I think the ending for the Watchers is one of the more interesting endings to Queen’s Wish. It isn’t one I would choose myself, but the way it’s handled is different to almost all of the other endings. For instance, it’s the quickest and simplest ending. Every other ending requires you to directly attack some enemy of the party you're talking to. All you need to do for the Watchers is to talk to them, and to discredit yourself. You can get them on your side simply through diplomacy, without needing any force of arms. That’s a novel approach! The way Haven – and your mother – react to this approach is also very nicely written. They have some engaging, challenging things to say about it. This is a good ending, and one that’s worth experiencing. I want to make sure that people aren’t put off from playing it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody madrigan Posted November 25, 2019 Author Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) That is one way to look at it. I think the fact that the Blessed give you everything you want in exchange for nothing serves mainly to emphasize their incompetence though. Bonus tidbit, I just discovered that every time I enter Elovo, Peadar is waiting to fight me. I have now killed him a second time. I then exited the city and went right back in, and he is standing there again. Edited November 25, 2019 by madrigan original response sounded dickish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Ess-Eschas Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Great! You’ve stumbled on a bug, and that’s a useful find. However, just as a reminder, this is not the best place to post a bug report. The developer does not check these forums regularly, and so a post on here might be missed. What you need to do is to email your bugs to Spiderweb directly. That way, they can be fixed, and the game made even better for future players! Be sure to send your bug report here: support@spiderwebsoftware.com Be sure to include in your email the behaviour you’ve seen with Blessed Peadar, but also the lack of response of Istara to you supporting the Watchers. Try to be as clear as you can in your email, since that will ensure the issues can get fixed more quickly! 20 hours ago, madrigan said: I think the fact that the Blessed give you everything you want in exchange for nothing serves mainly to emphasize their incompetence though. Ah, but that’s the interesting bit! Kneeling to the Watchers is far from nothing. Indeed, it’s possibly the greatest demand any of the factions in the game make of you. Delia and the Queen might contact you through the portal about it. They have some insight into the matter. Good on you, incidentally, for your edit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody madrigan Posted November 25, 2019 Author Share Posted November 25, 2019 Bug report submitted. Kneeling to the Watchers is nothing, if you've decided that the prince is a secret anarchist and wants to undermine the kingdom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug copyKate Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 On 11/25/2019 at 1:29 PM, madrigan said: Kneeling to the Watchers is nothing, if you've decided that the prince is a secret anarchist and wants to undermine the kingdom. Sure, and kudos on the well-thought-through motives! As it stands, a Watcher ending requires you make false promises to Istara (if any), pay lip service to the ridiculous Blessed, leaving them incompetently in charge and easy prey for your later return. Going back to Istara at that point re-opens the possibility of turning the woods over to the slightly less incompetent Trench Towns. madrigan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Spidweb Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 We never got this bug report (sometimes emails get lost), but I lucked into this thread. The Peadar thing is fixed. Thanks! Lucidus, madrigan and Ess-Eschas 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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