Geneforge Remakes: Latest Update

[Aleister]

I was just reading an interview Jeff did for his new game - Queen's Wish - that's coming out soon. Honestly I wasn't terribly excited for this one but after reading this interview:

https://venturebeat.com/2019/06/04/queens-wish-the-conqueror-interview-jeff-vogel-wants-you-to-be-a-fantasy-ceo/2/ I definitely feel more excited for it - reading how much time and passion Jeff has put behind it. Now - for the subject matter, a portion of the interview gave a minor yet encouraging update on the Geneforge remakes: 

 

Vogel: Once a game is 15-20 years old, if it’s any good, it should be remastered. It’s new to most people. The next thing I’m going to do is start remastering the Geneforge games, which were really terrific games.

 

GamesBeat: That was a fantastic series. That was the first series of yours I came across.

 

Vogel: It’s really cool beans. But the first Geneforge game will have come out 20 years—when I release the remaster the previous one will have come out 20 years ago. It runs on an 800 by 600 pixel screen. I’ve learned 900,000 things about how to design a game since then. I’m really looking forward to this remaster. It’s going to be really neat, and I’m going to do my best to leave alone all the stuff that people liked, but there’s a lot of stuff in it that’s kind of wonky, that I don’t think works very well. I want to turn it into something a lot more interesting on the game end of it. I like to do new game, old game, new game, old game. I’ve been doing this for 25 years.

 

No new news here, but it was encouraging to read that Jeff considers these games to be "really cool". Hopefully we'll see more of the passion put into Queens Wish resurface in the remakes for Geneforge. 

 

I was also thinking that we should start a thread - linked to strategy central perhaps - where people can add updates on the remakes as they come across them. Interested to read any updates anyone else has. 

[Slawbug]

Definitely cool that we are finally getting closer to these remakes.  And it sounds like you have just created the thread you are hoping for!

 

Strategy Central may not be the right place to advertise something that has nothing to do with strategy, but an update thread could certainly be stickied or something.  I guess updates will probably start popping up regularly by the end of the year.

[alhoon]

Awesome. I will finally get to play the GForge game you all loved and hopefully the various inconsistencies with later games that are probably there will be retconned.

[Aleister]

9 hours ago, RMV RNG said:

Definitely cool that we are finally getting closer to these remakes.  And it sounds like you have just created the thread you are hoping for!

 

Strategy Central may not be the right place to advertise something that has nothing to do with strategy, but an update thread could certainly be stickied or something.  I guess updates will probably start popping up regularly by the end of the year.

Haha good! Not sure how the whole stickied thing works but if someone could do that to this thread so people can drop their updates in as they come that would be appreciated :)  

[Aleister]

9 hours ago, alhoon said:

Awesome. I will finally get to play the GForge game you all loved and hopefully the various inconsistencies with later games that are probably there will be retconned.

Agreed. I've played through the series a number of times trying to get the ending as chronologically accurate as possible. But there are some things that just don't line up and I hope we see some of them fixed ( Teresstria being the "lesser settled" continent, Kyrykk being alive in GF4 despite rebels winning ashen isles conflict etc.) 

Personally for GF 5 I'd like a chain where you do end up finding your true identity. Make it as easy/hard as you want like u cant use canisters, have to follow certain unexplicit clues etc. Just to please the inner Matt Patt  detective in some of the die-hard fans.

[alhoon]

4 hours ago, Aleister said:

Personally for GF 5 I'd like a chain where you do end up finding your true identity. Make it as easy/hard as you want like u cant use canisters, have to follow certain unexplicit clues etc. Just to please the inner Matt Patt  detective in some of the die-hard fans.

 

That would IMO not be very good. The way it is now, we can assume that the GF3 character or GF4 character was the protagonist or even the GF2 character.

Edited June 12, 2019 by alhoon

[ThricebornPhoenix]

On 6/11/2019 at 9:54 AM, Aleister said:

Vogel: It’s really cool beans. But the first Geneforge game will have come out 20 years—when I release the remaster the previous one will have come out 20 years ago. It runs on an 800 by 600 pixel screen. I’ve learned 900,000 things about how to design a game since then.

Looking forward to finally playing one of my favorite games in glorious 1024x768 resolution!

 

9 hours ago, Aleister said:

Agreed. I've played through the series a number of times trying to get the ending as chronologically accurate as possible. But there are some things that just don't line up and I hope we see some of them fixed ( Teresstria being the "lesser settled" continent, Kyrykk being alive in GF4 despite rebels winning ashen isles conflict etc.)

 

Some of the bigger inconsistencies should be easy enough to fix. Tweaking just a handful of lines could cover a lot of territory in that department. Sequels taking things from more than one of the previous game's endings probably won't change, though.

[Slawbug]

I'm with alhoon.  I have it as pretty solid headcanon that the G3 PC is the G5 PC.  Makes more sense than anything else, and nothing really makes it not make sense.

[TheKian]

29 minutes ago, RMV RNG said:

I'm with alhoon.  I have it as pretty solid headcanon that the G3 PC is the G5 PC.  Makes more sense than anything else, and nothing really makes it not make sense.

Except that the G3 PC never used the Geneforge in the game, and isn't indicated to have used one later one (not to mention the Geneforge the rebels used was fairly weak and only gave you the capability of Shaping). When you use the Geneforge in G5, it explicitly tells you that you've used the Geneforge before. Since the canon ending for G4 is the rebel ending, it's more likely that the G5 PC is the G4 PC.

Edited June 12, 2019 by TheKian

[Slawbug]

15 minutes ago, TheKian said:

Except that the G3 PC never used the Geneforge in the game, and isn't indicated to have used one later

Um, nothing is indicated about what the G3 PC does later, so absence of evidence really isn't evidence of absence, here.

 

15 minutes ago, TheKian said:

Since the canon ending for G4 is the rebel ending

I'm so sick of these type of arguments.  There are numerous examples of where no achievable ending to a GF game perfectly fits what happens between it and the following game.  It is extremely clear that Jeff does not simply pick an ending and cleave to it.  So even in cases where one ending seems to largely fit, there's absolutely no reason to assume that any details that aren't referenced in future games (like what the PC did) actually played out they way they would have if you the player achieved that ending.

 

I don't expect you to include arguments in favor of the G3 PC when you're arguing for the G4 PC, but your conclusion is quite a jump, since it relies entirely on assumptions about the ending of another game.

 

The clearest evidence, IMO, is in the comments Greta and Alwan make about what ultimately happened to the G3 PC -- which I note does not line up with any of the G3 endings, not really.  There are no similar comments made about the G4 PC, I don't think.  (See, look, actual evidence, not absence of evidence.)  Of course it's possible that both the G3 and G4 PCs went down that path of craziness, but if that were the case it wouldn't really make either more plausible than the other.

[Aleister]

8 hours ago, ThricebornPhoenix said:

Some of the bigger inconsistencies should be easy enough to fix. Tweaking just a handful of lines could cover a lot of territory in that department. Sequels taking things from more than one of the previous game's endings probably won't change, though.

 

Very true. And your probably correct with your second point. It's difficult to have a game where the creator gives you the options of endings then continues the next game off one specific ending, making your play through of the previous game and its respective story line irrelevant. What could be cool (if it wasn't both way to much extra work and confusing to new time players) would be if Jeff made it so that you could select what ending you finished off the previous game when starting the next one in the series. Like I said utterly unpractical from a creators standpoint, but it would settle the issues with "canon". 

[Aleister]

2 hours ago, TheKian said:

Except that the G3 PC never used the Geneforge in the game, and isn't indicated to have used one later one (not to mention the Geneforge the rebels used was fairly weak and only gave you the capability of Shaping). When you use the Geneforge in G5, it explicitly tells you that you've used the Geneforge before. Since the canon ending for G4 is the rebel ending, it's more likely that the G5 PC is the G4 PC.

I'd invite you to view my new thread (once I post it) to see if we can continue these ideas. 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Aleister

[Aleister]

14 hours ago, alhoon said:

That would IMO not be very good. The way it is now, we can assume that the GF3 character or GF4 character was the protagonist or even the GF2 character.

 

Reading the massive drawn out back and forward debates between people whenever this topic comes up makes it clear that not everyone feels the same. When the end credits of GF5 say "one thing that bothered you is that you never discovered your true identity" or something along those lines, it was right, we are all to a degree bothered by it. Also I like your idea on it being the GF2 character. Keeping slarty (Preferential Depletement)'s point on "canon" in mind. The barzite ending of GF2 where you get continuously modified on by the barzites fits really well. 2 points:

1) GF5 "You where changed too much", "Showed signs of excessive illegal shaping", etc.

2) Rawals journal: "Found near the Drypeak mountains". Sounds familiar. 

 

Not nearly as much evidence as another theory I'll address in my new thread, but it's interesting. Here's a radical idea. What if Jeff deliberately put evidence (sometimes seemingly conflicting) for the GF 5 protagonist being the GF 2, 3, or 4 protagonist in the Geneforge 5 game as a fan service. Your favorite game GF2? Congrats heres part II of your story. Loved the story of the three survivors going from isle to isle changing the world and potentially avenging their dead classmates and teachers? Congrats, here's part II. Want to know what happens to GF 4 protagonist? U can work with that too etc. I would not be surprised if this was exactly what was going through Jeff's mind when he decided not to give us a concrete answer. 

[alhoon]

What I meant was more in line of "You could assume your GF3 PC or GF2 PC or GF4 PC was the one without asking "how my guardian became a servile?" if you played with a servile.

What I mean is that if we go for a "Clear" background for the GF5 PC, then he or she will most probably be someone new and NOT a former protagonist in order to conform to "But I played Servile in GF4 and a Sorceress in GF5!" or "I played an agent in GF3 and a guardian in GF5" etc

 

I.e. I believe leaving it open leads to more happy fans IMO. 

[Aleister]

My new thread is up! I spent of time on this theory and would love to hear everyone's feedback and ideas.