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Avernum 7

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Jeff has no plans for a sequel, however he did mention once that he had an idea for a prequel which set off lots of speculation how far back in Avernum's history he would go.


However the next scheduled games are the new series, Queen's Wish, and the Geneforge remakes.

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  • 1 month later...

I remember the sequel announcement (or maybe he just mentioned that he was thinking about it on here and it wasn't really an announcement) and was wondering if anything was being done with that anytime soon. 

I also think I remember the first expedition being speculation and all he said was sequel, but i could be remembering wrong and i don't feel like looking back for it right now.

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Jeff has definitely talked explicitly about his idea to do a prequel about the First Expedition.  I don't remember when he first mentioned that, but I think at least 10 years ago?  The last time he mentioned it (that I know of anyway) it sounded like he hadn't totally discounted the idea, but it was an "if it even happens, it'd be years and years down the line" sort of thing.

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On 3/19/2019 at 12:45 AM, Randomizer said:

Jeff has got 3 years of Geneforge remakes planned and unless Queen's Wish has his worst sales ever, he would probably do 2 more. After all the work he did for a new game engine, I can't see him not continuing it.

Or maybe he's been secretly working on it to surprise his fans? :)

Edited by ladyonthemoon
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Queen's Wish is actually the origin story of the Empire.


—Alorael, who now understands that the Empire isn't only nameless because there's no reason to name the only game in town. It's also because it's named after a PC, and of course there's no way to accommodate all the names. Thus, its eponym is lost in the mists of time and myth.

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  • 10 months later...

I apologize for posting to an old topic


I suppose it's gonna be about how things are going in Avernum under Melanchion's rule. Maybe he will say "screw it" and start attacking Avernites, maybe somebody from the Empire will buy him off (just like all dragons, he's obsessive with shiny things too) or, just like Empire did to other dragons, enslave him to do their bidding. A funny one would be that one of his Drayssas will regain his/her senses and assassinate him. These are just my fanfictions. 


Or maybe the remaining slithzerikai or vahnatai will try to take their revenge again. Sliths are not entirely exterminated, just forced to sign a peace deal and maybe they will break the deal. Or the remaining vahnatai far below Avernum will go full Rentar again.


Ah, we also have the Gladwell issue. I never trusted that old geezer and killed him in the end but he would appear in A7 and strike the Empire with his might, which will force us to deal with him once and for all. 

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If I were to make an Avernum 7, I'd have several major goals in mind:


1) Allow for at least some level of nonlinear exploration, as A1 and A3 best exemplify

1a) Allow at least a good chunk of this exploration to be in 'virgin' territory that hasn't been visited in the series yet

2) Have a solid villain and conflict, worthy of the series' name

3) Add memorable new features

4) Stay true to the feel of the series as a whole


I can't be the only person who drew up a theoretical map of sections of the caves that haven't been visited before. The difficulty is coming up with a topography that looks somewhat natural, doesn't railroad the player too badly, and most importantly doesn't *look* like it's railroading the player. (I'm looking at you, Avernum 5.) I did sketch something out, tho. If anyone cares to take a look at my MSPaint scrawlings, feel free to email me.


As far as a post-Avernum-6 villain is concerned, both Melanchion and Gladwell could conceivably fit the bill, but both of them seem entirely too savvy to fall into that role so wholeheartedly. They are both Machiavellian manipulators, true, but they're also *pragmatic* villains at their core. Shifting Melanchion too far towards the "I am a god" part of the axis too quickly, or making Gladwell do unwise things with necromancy to boost his power, are both in character, but doing it too drastically would feel like character derailment for the former. Gladwell... maybe? But he's always been careful to position himself as the lesser evil.


To be honest, the most compelling plot I can think of would be a demonic invasion of some kind, presaged by unexplained mental possession. Waiting until the events of Avernum 6 were over and the caves were somewhat depopulated (or alternatively, hungry and desperate) would be a good time to do it. Maybe someone in the infernal realms heard of Grah-Hoth's old domain and decided to try conquering it. Figuring out whether to accept Gladwell's help, spurn him, or kill him *and* the demons, would be a good choice.


As far as features are concerned, there are a bunch I'd be interested in seeing, but I'll randomly throw out there "Ogre and Goblin PCs; bashing weapons; early gunpowder weaponry; the return of the troglos; and just for giggles, the portal coordinate system from Avernum 2". Heck, special dialogue for all-ogre/goblin parties could be potentially hilarious.


Okay. Methinks I'm done.

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16 hours ago, Kalnnas said:


I can't be the only person who drew up a theoretical map of sections of the caves that haven't been visited before.


There is all map area south of the Tower of Magi/Almiria/Great Cave.  I can't imagine that such a huge cave system  just 'stops' right there at the edge of the map.  I mean, if nothing else, all that water draining out of the Great Lake & passing by Almiria has to go 'somewhere'...


The problem (as you touched upon) is what kind of story would actually drive the game.  A6 did a reasonable job tying up the entire series/humans living underground in mass numbers.  You would have to come up with something really interesting/logical/compelling to make sure that opening up an essentially closed series is really worth it. We'll see.


Myself, I'm not really holding out hope for an A7 somewhere/somewhen down the line.  The remakes of Geneforge & the new Queen's Wishes (I know he has plans/ideas for at least 2 & 3) will probably take most of the 2020s, pushing Jeff into his mid 60s/probably seriously thinking about retirement.  I could 'maybe' see a new game based on the First Expedition as that would be somewhat simple (simple...ha) to write as much of it is already in Avernum's lore & would just require a lot of fleshing out (compared to creating a brand new story).  So I could sort of see that one being written sometime after QW3 if he's tired of mentally living in the QW/GF universes.  However I wouldn't be willing to put much money on betting on that...


Time will tell...

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It’s been mentioned briefly in this topic already, but I think it’s worth giving a little more detail on this point.

Spiderweb has consistently talked about an idea to put together a prequel game to the Avernum series: ‘Avernum 0’. This game would be set long before all the others, looking at the Empire’s first excursions into the caves. It’s an idea that’s been floating around for quite some time, but the designer of these games – Jeff Vogel – keeps on mentioning it. I think that’s a good sign. It even appears that very simple concept work has been done on the game – in a post on Reddit from 2019, Jeff Vogel comments that Avernum 0 would use a fort-building system in a similar way to Queen’s Wish.

Of course, this is only a possibility! As TriRodent points out, Spiderweb has a lot to keep it busy over the next few years! However, given that Spiderweb keeps coming back to the idea, and given the popularity of the series and the recent remakes, I think there’s a fair chance that this might eventually happen at some point down the line.

So, be sure to keep playing Avernum! Recommend it to your friends! The more people who play and enjoy the Avernum series, the more likely it will be that it will be continued! :)

Having said that, I think there is an interesting way that the series could continue to a seventh game. While a lot of things were tied up in Avernum 6, there is one huge loose end that hasn’t yet been dealt with, a massive gun that hasn’t yet fired.

So, here are my thoughts on this. It fulfils some of your wishes too, Kalnnas.

Avernum 7 is set on the surface, many decades after Avernum 6. It’s not set in Valorim, as seen in Avernum 3, but rather in one of the Empire’s other continents – for the purposes of this discussion, let’s say Pralgrad.

After the events of Avernum 6, the world changed. With the severity of the food shortage in the caves, and after the terrifying ordeal faced by those trapped by the portal disaster, the majority of those who used to live in Avernum fled to the surface. The surface was unready for the huge influx of refugees, and many of those refugees were suspicious of the Empire’s rule. While some of the former Avernites returned to the Empire, many of the refugees gathered in large communities at the outskirts of the Empire’s control. Initially just large expanses of tents and hastily-constructed shelters, over time these communities grew into fully fledged villages and towns.

Not willing to forsake their home, and refusing to bow completely to the Empire’s rule, these communities started to organise. They even referred to themselves as ‘New Avernum’. While there is some integration between the Empire and the New Avernites, there is a clear distinction between the two. The Empire is wealthy. The Avernites are not. The Empire is strict. New Avernum is a hub of experimentation and excitement – and it can be very dangerous.

You are a group of soldiers, newly conscripted into the army at New Formello garrison, a small city in one of the rocky, infertile wastes on the western reaches of Pralgrad. These are dangerous times. Reports have been coming in from all over the Empire of mysterious accidents affecting centres of magical learning. One tower would collapse due to shifting foundations, another fall to fire, a third still be destroyed by some of its experiments running loose. Every few days, another school is mysteriously ruined. And not just in the Empire – New Avernum is affected too. In spite of the best minds in both groups working on the problem, no-one can find anything remotely suspicious about what’s going on. All the accidents seem genuine. But there are so many of them that they can’t be, can they?

The people are uneasy and frightened. Crime is on the rise. The army and their wizards seem powerless to help. And, as if sensing weakness in the civilised world, creatures formerly thought extinct are once more prowling the roads, waylaying travellers.

That’s where you come in. A group of renegade nephilim have started robbing travellers on the road to New Formello. Your job is to convince them to stop – in whatever way you deem fit.

*Load Title Screen*

So who’s the villain?

The one plot point that’s never been fully resolved is the dragons. Sulfras makes bold claims in Avernum 3 that the dragons fully intend to take revenge on the Empire for their policy of mercilessly killing off so many of their race. Sulfras’s rage is quite genuine and heartfelt, and I see no reason why they shouldn’t carry out this threat.

And yet Sulfras and the rest of our familiar Avernite dragons essentially disappear in the second trilogy. Why? Because they are plotting their revenge, of course! While the dragons only wish to harm the Empire, after Avernum 6, the distinctions between the Empire and the Avernites has lessened – New Avernum is just caught up in the crossfire.

You can tie this into the Second Trilogy quite nicely, too. One of the dragons that does appear in that Trilogy is Athron. She would, I feel, be one of the dragons attacking the Empire. But I think Melanchion would disagree. You have strife here between mother and son – one fighting the Empire and the other, reluctantly, supporting it. And, to give credence to the name of the series, the base of operations of the hostile dragons – and Melanchion – are in the caves of Avernum itself.

So, what do you do? You’re a New Avernite. You distrust the Empire, with all its rules, arrogance and bloody history. Do you fight the dragons, ending the threat to the Empire and your own people? Or do you join them, dealing the Empire a deadly blow, allowing you and your people to move out of the blasted wastes, into the fertile lands where you feel you rightfully belong?

The choice is up to you ...

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I think that Avernum had become an old game atleast after the arrival of Avadon, Queen's Wish and like even though there were remakes. But, there is no single evidence atleast telling that Jeff is thinking about Avernum 0 or 7. There is the only update that the crew is working on remakes of Geneforge. However, I will feel better if there was one. I have also a plot for Avernum 7, not 0 which are unlikely going to be made.


Maybe like this:


(Before Start)Most of the Avernites have run up to the surface and started to mainly live in Provincial Avernum and Valorim. You are an adventurer living in City of Dawn. You moved on and killed many goblins and bugs affecting the area after you exited Avernum. One day, you receive a message with the Sun Symbol of Avernum. You doubt the message. The mayor reads it out, "We need help from you xxxxx(name of the mayor) as the people of Abyss who are largely remaining here want to conquer the Avernum(Some cruel minds will always remain). They have support of slith barbarians, and hostile nephilim. We need help from you."  The mayor accepts it and selects you to be the adventurer going there and explore as you are the bravest in Provincial Avernum. First of all she orders you to be tested by destroying some bears, ogres and like...(Goblins are alerady killed)(beginner works in technical terms){After completing it in game} and then go into Avernum by the portal available in Redmark College. All the dragons are too unavailable except Khoth in Za-Khazi Run. They may be busy in revenging the Empire...(Thanks for Ess-Eschas for making me to write this particular line) and they cannot help you. They are not strong as Empire however... But Avernum too is not strong as before. Only few towns are present in Avernum... Can Avernum survive?(Next) You arrive in the Castle. Go get your orders from the yyyyy(name of the administrator) and....{it goes on}


How was that? Post a comment. It won't be far good as I am not used to buffing stories up in my mind.

Edited by Warrior Mage
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2 hours ago, Warrior Mage said:

But, there is no single evidence atleast telling that Jeff is thinking about Avernum 0


Yes, there is?


I think perhaps there’s been something of a misunderstanding here. That may well be on my end. However, I thought that I was fairly clear about this in my previous post. In it, I summarised Spiderweb and Jeff Vogel’s regular comments about Avernum 0. I even chose one particular example to illustrate the point, taken from 2019, since it gives some interesting details about what the game might be. To be absolutely clear on that point, the post I mention is one from Jeff Vogel in which he explicitly talks about Avernum 0. It’s one of many posts of his on the subject.


That is, by definition, evidence that Spiderweb is thinking about Avernum 0! And, not only that, but even doing some simple planning about the initial concepts.


Here’s a reminder of my previous comments:


17 hours ago, Ess-Eschas said:

Spiderweb has consistently talked about an idea to put together a prequel game to the Avernum series: ‘Avernum 0’. This game would be set long before all the others, looking at the Empire’s first excursions into the caves. It’s an idea that’s been floating around for quite some time, but the designer of these games – Jeff Vogel – keeps on mentioning it. I think that’s a good sign. It even appears that very simple concept work has been done on the game – in a post on Reddit from 2019, Jeff Vogel comments that Avernum 0 would use a fort-building system in a similar way to Queen’s Wish.


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Sorry if I gave some wrong comments. But really the thought about the prequel is not active even though it is in Jeff's mind. The active are Geneforge remakes and even though he did it after the remakes, people will forget Avernum except somebody like us! That would be a loss for them. Sorry if I told something wrong but I like logical thinking.


Also, the truth is I prefer the axonometrical style if there will be an Avernum 0 or 7, but I don't wish the 2D style in Queen's Wish.

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It may be something, it may come or not. But, I am sure that the admins won't peek into this particular topic and read our opinions and change their mind. So, I will wrap on here. I am wishing for the Av 0 to arrive. But, it's their wish, they are the conquerors. Avernum, I too don't like it to be old, but I reflected people's voice thinking like that. So, something may occur or not, I am not going to mess in up!

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