Is it just me, or are all enemy resistances too high?

[utelektr]

I've played the two games on Normal, and even then it really seemed to me as if every enemy, even the basic ones, had really high resistance to every type of damage. Even enemies that seem to be weak to certain kinds of damage (like sliths against ice) seem to have over 50% resistance. What gives?

[Randomizer]

Some monsters are just highly resistant especially to physical damage after the early part of the game.  There is usually at least one damage type that will do at least enough damage so you can kill them.

 

Avernum: Escape from the Pit is worse in that there are some that are 95% resistant to either magical attacks or physical.

[Lilith]

Resistances increase according to a formula based on enemy level, with some enemies having extra resistance to specific damage types on top of that. Physical resistance increases a bit faster with level than resistance to other types of damage. The result is that in the late game, when you're facing high-level enemies, they'll all be taking greatly reduced damage from whatever you throw at them.

[Mogatsu]

This is my number one gripe with the 3rd iteration of the series (as well as Avernum 6), it really takes the fun out of the games for me. I'm currently a third of the way through Ruined World and it's really disheartening to see 60-70% of your damage just being flat out resisted by monsters that are significantly weaker to you. It feels like as you level and get stronger you get less and less power for your levelling as the resistances seem to take larger chunks out of your damage. Currently have a party of level 15's, 2 warriors and 2 spellcasters and around 7 or 8 i started to hit my stride and drop 70-90 damage on some mobs (either sword or spell) and I'm still sitting around that now 7 levels or so later, just with about 120 damage resisted on top.

 

Granted, in Avernum 3 it was far too easy to hit the damage cap but even on torment, especially if you played a singleton it made it challenging enough for me, I love Av3 and played it to death and while I can't go back to squinting at a tiny screen or losing the junk bag or being able to click to move around the map, there are a few things I will miss about it (like I missed things from Exile 3 before it) but the resistance mechanics just make combat feel sloggish and at times tedious.

Sorry if this is a necro, it's only a few weeks old.

[Slawbug]

IMO the frustrating thing about it isn't that resistances are so high -- that's not any different from other games giving enemies increasingly huge mountains of HP as the game progresses.

 

The frustrating thing is that the differing rates of advancement of enemy resistances mean that basically every enemy in the game takes less damage from physical attacks than magical.

[Randomizer]

The physical attacks becoming weaker later in the game has always been there. From what I've seen physical attacks usually do more total damage, but the lower penetration rate from armor means less useful damage. You get some compensation by getting multiple attacks from Dual Wielding or extra range attacks.

 

At least there was no longer Avernum: Escape from the Pit total immunity to physical or all magic damages.

[Slawbug]

It hasn't "always" been there.  It was never there until the 1%/3%/5% automatic enemy resistance system -- the one used in A3:RW -- was put into place.  That's relatively recent.

 

Also, how in the world is "multiple attacks from Dual Wielding or extra range attacks" compensation, when AoE magic attacks are always ranged, and can always get many hits in a single attack?

[Randomizer]

I did qualify the compensation since magic always is better than physical attacks.

[BenS]

I had a related question re: dual-wielding, which I haven't tried (and won't on this 1st play through on Normal). I know physical attacks get resisted more as the game goes on, so I'm wondering why dual-wielding--which represents a bit of what I'd call a "feat tax" in D&D or PF terms to offset the various penalties, using skills & traits--is a recommended strategy over skills like Blademaster or Lethal Blow.

 

In other words, I'm not sure 2 hits, oddly enough, are always better than 1. Using fake #s, let's say I hit a foe while dual-wielding 2x, but of 100 points of damage for each hit, his resistance blocks 90 pts. So now I've done 20 points of damage. Now let's say that Lethal Blow let's me hit 1x, kicks in, and does some amount of damage much nicer than 100 points. While 90 is blocked, if I did over 110 points with that 1 hit, that would be a net win, wouldn't it?

 

 

[TriRodent]

I'm pretty sure that there's a chance for Lethal Blow with each of the Dual Wielding strikes as it's based off of a generic melee attack & not what else you're equipped with.

 

My main fighter dual wields mainly because there are more swords with nice bonus attributes than there are shields.  But you can certainly complete the game either way.

[BenS]

1 hour ago, TriRodent said:

I'm pretty sure that there's a chance for Lethal Blow with each of the Dual Wielding strikes as it's based off of a generic melee attack & not what else you're equipped with.

 

My main fighter dual wields mainly because there are more swords with nice bonus attributes than there are shields.  But you can certainly complete the game either way.

Well that's interesting. If I'm understanding you correctly, the game gives a small chance for Lethal Blow regardless (I guess the good old fashioned "critical hit"), but the actual 10-rank Skill Lethal Blow increases that chance? Hmm. Some tough choices ahead for my soldier...

[Spidweb]

In v101, I will reduce monster resistance to physical and mental, esp at higher levels.

[Lilith]

6 hours ago, BenS said:

I had a related question re: dual-wielding, which I haven't tried (and won't on this 1st play through on Normal). I know physical attacks get resisted more as the game goes on, so I'm wondering why dual-wielding--which represents a bit of what I'd call a "feat tax" in D&D or PF terms to offset the various penalties, using skills & traits--is a recommended strategy over skills like Blademaster or Lethal Blow.

 

In other words, I'm not sure 2 hits, oddly enough, are always better than 1. Using fake #s, let's say I hit a foe while dual-wielding 2x, but of 100 points of damage for each hit, his resistance blocks 90 pts. So now I've done 20 points of damage. Now let's say that Lethal Blow let's me hit 1x, kicks in, and does some amount of damage much nicer than 100 points. While 90 is blocked, if I did over 110 points with that 1 hit, that would be a net win, wouldn't it?

 

 

 

Resistance is a percentage rather than a flat subtraction. So if you're fighting an enemy with 90% physical resistance, 90% of your lethal blow hit will be blocked just the same as 90% of your regular hit would have been. In other words, there isn't really a difference between one 200-damage hit and two 100-damage hits as far as resistance goes, and in practice it's way easier to get two 100-damage hits.

[TriRodent]

2 hours ago, BenS said:

Well that's interesting. If I'm understanding you correctly, the game gives a small chance for Lethal Blow regardless (I guess the good old fashioned "critical hit"), but the actual 10-rank Skill Lethal Blow increases that chance? Hmm. Some tough choices ahead for my soldier...

 

Oh, as you were talking about LB I assumed that you had at least one point in it & my assumption moving on that was that my DW guy had an equal amount.   Thus if each hit had a 5% chance to activate LB, you would get it 1/20th of the time & I would get it somewhere around 1/10th of the time (somewhere as each hit would be 1/20 but I'm getting twice as many).

 

As far as I know there is no chance of LB until you put some skill points towards it.

[BenS]

Thank you Lilith and TriRodent. No matter how many times I play these games, I'm always learning something new.

 

And thank you Jeff for what we can look forward to in v101. Maybe the way to address part of the monster resistance to physical attacks would be to allow for Lethal Blow to actually reduce the percentage resistance they currently enjoy. So rather than just more damage per se, each rank reduces their percentage resistance. That'd be an incentive to go for Lethal Blow for either a sword/shield PC or a pole-arm PC, rather than everyone rushing for dual wielding. Each melee style would then have a level playing ground. Theoretically; I don't know the actual math behind the game.

[Slawbug]

4 hours ago, Spidweb said:

In v101, I will reduce monster resistance to physical and mental, esp at higher levels.

 

Whoa!  Cool.  Look forward to seeing how it works out!

[Necris Omega]

Honestly, I never did find much use for "mental" attacks in really any of the Avernum games. A mental attack is an all or nothing distraction/disable that comes with failure rates that are just eclipsed by the more powerful damage abilities. Early on, sure, daze is a life saver and slow is something else, but as soon as direct AoE damage becomes a reliable thing?

 

I can either try to charm one of them... and that might possibly serve as a distraction for a turn or two... or I can blow them all half way to kingdom come. Maybe it's just that I'm content to stick to normal difficulty, but the allure of the more manipulative spells just isn't there for me by comparison. Maybe this would be reduced if they were (much) more effective, but I'm 30 levels in, and Howl of Terror isn't something I see myself investing in.

 

 

 

Sure, it's entertaining when I can temporarily brainwash my enemies, but in terms of raw effectiveness, dumb brute fiery force just seems much more effective. Especially what with the Golems I've yet to tackle.