Jump to content

Scripting and modding GF5


alhoon

Recommended Posts

I am in the process of adding a new zone (more to see how I can implement it for another mod). I started easily: With a cave! It's also a squeaky clean cave, cause if there was litter, I would have to add every broken baton piece and towel and skull by hand.

 

It is in the game and I have tested it. It's connected to another zone properly.

 

Now, I have to fill it with creations, items, etc.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 174
  • Created
  • Last Reply

That's not how military operates BUT, I can could see it happening as Alwan gets to trust you more and more. However, give a fort to an illegal abomination? That's getting it too far even for a bend-the-law approach of Alwan.

What could be more realistic is the character becoming the leader-behind-the-throne in Rockfall. An attached mercenary\councilor that is calling the shots without alerting the whole Shaper Empire that Alwan gave part of the Line to geneforged individuals that worked(?) for Rawal.

I will admit I didn't really think the idea through very much. I was sorta just thinking of a possible reward you'd get for helping the Shapers in such a way (Killing Litalia should get you something pretty big; not just some money, which runs out pretty fast in my experiences with the game).

 

And yeah, I don't really know anything about military operations, so forgive me if it seems like I'm a little out of my depth in that regard.

Searing lighting does insane amounts of damage... With my warrior I can kill a wartrall after clearing part of Mera-Tev (level 20). I removed it from one of the batons the player can find early on.

I don't remember making any baton that explicitly gave you searing lightning as a spell, unless you're referring to the fact that one of the batons gives you a bunch of extra magic stats...

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was referring to the Batons and sword (energized sword) that gives after striking that lighting aura (Kyshaak attack) that does easily a good 100-110 damage per round for a lot of rounds. Assuming 2 rounds + the hit, that's a weapon dealing 300-400 damage in the hands of a 20 lvl warrior\Guardian. Any such weapon blows everything else out of the water. What I mean is that after you get the channeler or Physician baton or th Energized sword, you will probably never change them. They are so much better than anything else that the other weapons are nearly pointless.

 

You may say "OK, put the recipes near the end!" I did that for the chaneler Baton, but the Energized sword comes very early (since you get the flaming sword by Makar) and I have added the recipe in Helf ruins.

 

In the case of your mod, that the player can make the items without need of a recipe, it's not a big problem. But for the warrior Mod, I want the player having an eye out in ruins to find recipes. After they get their first baton\weapon...they won't have to. :(

As such, instead of changing the order of the recipes I took the Searing Lighting out of the "early" weapons.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In my personal mods, I gave the original flaming Sword that energy DOT and it doesn't seem OP, the damage is more in line with your average acid or poison. I also made it do fire damage instead of physical, so it's less useful against enemies who resist fire, such as all those Drakons towards the end. Its energy DOT becomes less useful later in the game as well, at least if you shape, because once you have Kyshakks they can spread that lightning effect around more effectively than the sword and they don't stack as far as I know.

 

I changed lightning aura and essence lances so they hit multiple targets. Lightning aura hits 3, essence lances hits 5. I also changed Kyshakks so they use the weaker Lightning aura instead of the more powerful essence lances, to balance out it's ability to spray multiple enemies with lightning to spread that DOT around. Gives it a more specialized role with more utility so it's not just a gimped Wingbolt. The upgraded Kyshak, the charged one I gave the more powerful essence lances spell to differentiate it from the basic Kyshakk more.

 

I also made reapers apply the energy dot effect because it seemed weird that the most powerful kind of Thorn didn't apply any status effects.

 

if anyone is interested I can send them my modded GF5 scripts. they're not quite done yet I need to tune the numbers for balance a little better, currently my character seems a little OP, though that's partly because I power-gamed like hell. I think I'm going to buff the health of later game enemies to compensate so the player can still feel good seeing those big numbers when they hit but they're not face-rolling their way through the endgame slaughtering everything with zero effort or risk.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Acid and poison dots do like 20-30 damage over time. The energy dot deals ~100-120 each turn for level 12 item. Perhaps I did something wrong, because despite changing it to lower and lower damage, I couldn't get it below ~60 damage with status damage per level = 1 and base = 0.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Acid and poison dots do like 20-30 damage over time. The energy dot deals ~100-120 each turn for level 12 item. Perhaps I did something wrong, because despite changing it to lower and lower damage, I couldn't get it below ~60 damage with status damage per level = 1 and base = 0.

huh, that is odd. I'll have to double check if the numbers I'm remembering are accurate but I've not seen the energy dot spike quite that high. If I remember correctly acid and poison did less damage than the energy dot but more than you're saying and the energy dot didn't qo quite that high, more like 60ish per turn tops.
Link to post
Share on other sites

60/turn for Mera and Early storm plains is still a lot.

I'm steamrolling through most encounters even after changing the energy dot to curse. The baton itself in my character's hands deals reliably 100-120 damage.

Link to post
Share on other sites

huh, well it's probably OP for the baton if you get it as early as Mera but a guardian wielding my buffed burning blade seemed ok in the early storm plains and stayed competitive later on because of how my damage scaled with stat boosts from my other gear and my skill points. I think it did do about 100 damage a turn even in the early storm plains when I first had it, but because I had to wade into packs of enemies and still didn't have super high armor or resistances there was a very real risk of me dying even if I could two-shot most average foes. Having a ranged attack that does that much that early is definitely op. I remember that how effective the energy dot was is highly dependent on the kind of creations you're fighting. the magic creations all have really high energy resistance and in storm plains there's a lot of Glaakhs and they are tough melee tank-ish on top of that. they barely took anything from it. Then the battle creations that you're fighting all have higher health so they can soak up more damage before croaking even though it hurts them more. Things like Cryoas and Roamers and other kinda mid-tier creations without high energy resistances or super high health were the only foes that it really wrecked.

 

I like making the different special weapons all have situational uses where they confer a distinct advantage, are modestly effective against most average foes, and then are severely ineffective in others, gives the player more reason to keep them all around instead of selling them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I entered the storm plains. Without creations, I could beat a War trall in one-v-one with the baton drinking just 1-2 pods. With the sword, which does more DoT I would have probably not need the 2 pods.

 

But more or less we say the same: You didn't have a reason to change your sword most of the time. Till the end of the game.

That in my opinion, invalidates future weapons if you have your finale weapon by early game.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

Development of a new zone didn't prove to be as hard as I anticipated. If it takes time is because I do other things. So, if you know what you're doing and what you want to do with a zone, its purpose, its basic decisions etc it's not hard to make the descriptions and idle dialogue. For the few NPCs that count... that's the same as with any other change you put in the game.

 

All in all, developing a new zone once you have a plan for it is not that time consuming although it's not very rewarding.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Being able to make a new zone is still amazing though. Just saying. :)

 

Question, has anyone ever tried giving the player characters bonus stats? It can be done; I've actually tested it, and you can actually give the player characters stat boosts. Basically put cr_statistic (stat number; for example, 4 is Melee Weapons, 5 is missile weapons) = (number you want) into one of the player character entries in the script. So something like this:

Spoiler

begindefinecreature 44;
    import = 9;
    cr_name = "Warrior";
    cr_graphic_template = 145;
    cr_max_health = 28;
    cr_max_energy = 20;
    cr_max_essence = 10;
    cr_regen_rate = 2;
    cr_energy_regen_rate = 2;
    cr_base_level = 1;
    cr_sound_when_slain = 127;

    cr_statistic 4 = 10; (+10 to Melee Weapons)
    cr_statistic 5 = 10; (+10 to Missile Weapons)
    cr_statistic 6 = 6; (+6 to Quick Action)
    cr_statistic 7 = 6; (+6 to Parry)
    
    // These are all of the main character's combat abils.
    // Abilities used in town are handled in hardcode
    cr_abil_num 0 = 0; // punch
    //cr_abil_level 0 = 1;
    cr_abil_step_of_launch 0 = 8;
    cr_abil_anim_in_reverse 0 = 1;

I was pretty happy when I figured out this worked; ended up giving the Guardian, Shock Trooper, and Warrior massive bonuses to combat stats (cuz they're really underpowered). Also, another tidbit I should point out: you can actually give player characters extra AP right off the bat. Basically put this:

 cr_bonus_aps = (how many more action points you want);

into the player character entry of your choice in the script, and you will be given extra AP. For example: cr_bonus_aps = 4; means that the creation in question gets +4 AP in battle. Ended up giving the Shock Trooper +4 AP; it was pretty awesome, and it definitely helped make her stronger (maybe too strong).

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some other notes on modding character base statistics:

You can also increase player walking speed. This will usually result in creations being left in the dust, and it also increases movement speed in battle. However, it seems as though it may drain AP more rapidly when moving during combat. Testing to check that point is probably necessary.

 

Another note to make about AP is that if you have too much (somewhere in the realm of ~50?), you will no longer be able to move in combat. I'm guessing that it wraps around to a negative value or something and just cancels your turn. Although you probably shouldn't be giving people that much AP in the first place, it's a good thing to consider. Furthermore, if you're in G1-G4, speed (i.e. the 'not stupidly bad' version of speed) can also break you if you have just as much AP, or a couple points less, than the game can handle.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, TheKian said:

Some other notes on modding character base statistics:

You can also increase player walking speed. This will usually result in creations being left in the dust, and it also increases movement speed in battle. However, it seems as though it may drain AP more rapidly when moving during combat. Testing to check that point is probably necessary.

 

 

No it does not, you spend less AP to move the same distance in combat. I've incorporated that in the Warrior mod for some time; one of the changes the character may get (after witnessing an NPC get it) is that. It results in the player moving faster than creations which means that you may hit enemies alone first.

However, for a melee warrior it is good overall since with the +50% speed I give, you can throw a crystal or use a pod and close in to enemies faster.

It is efficient enough that I consider doing that for all melee creations I have in GF2 and GF3 since in those games you need 5AP to attack, not 1.

 

Speed in GF5 is awesome since it affects everyone. I prefer it from GF1-4 speed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Being able to make yourself faster and thus move further in combat is awesome for characters in general. +50% speed boost though? Gotta go fast, I guess. XD 

 

Speed in GF5 gives you a chance to act twice, whereas Speed in GF1-4 always gave you extra AP. I'll let you decide which one works better. :p Also, what do you mean it affects everyone? Doesn't the GF1-4 versions do that already? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yeah, now I remember. Yeah, it used to be individual characters only. GF5 made it AoE instead. Okay. Still think they could've kept the extra AP instead of a chance to attack twice; maybe Jeff thought it would be OP to have an AoE +AP spell relatively early on?

Link to post
Share on other sites

G5 speed is still a great buff, it's not 'stupidly bad.'  G1-4 speed is a stupidly overpowered effect, though.  Even though the Speed spell is ST, you get the MT effects from spells like Mass Energize and Battle Roar.

 

This change from "haste doubles your AP" to "haste gives you a chance of getting enough bonus AP for a second action" was a global chance across Spiderweb games; it fell in the middle of the Second Avernum Trilogy, too.  Old haste/speed was an OP spell with no drawbacks and almost no interactions with anything else in the game.  That's not interesting.

 

IIRC, one of the main reasons Jeff axed it was this: the more super-powered abilities you have, the harder it is to balance the game so that it will be fun both for players who seek out and exploit the strongest abilities, and for players who have a more casual approach and may happen to not enjoy a particular OP ability.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, I'm not saying it's weak. I'm actually not terribly surprised that it's been changed, all things considered. An AoE spell that essentially gives +4 AP to the PC and every friendly unit nearby, including NPCs? I can already see the balance problems that would occur. The fact that it's AoE already makes it much easier to use, even though it's been nerfed to only give a chance of attacking twice. I don't have to go around individually buffing each friendly near my character, and because I can get multiple friendlies with one use of the Speed spell, it saves me a lot of spell energy and essence. Though I am curious about the probability of getting a second attack; is it a 50% chance? Or is it less than that?

 

One thing I will tell everyone; there are actually quite a few spells from previous games in GF5 that aren't used. For example, Aura of Flames is still in the GF5 files, but it's an NPC exclusive spell now (Likely to make way for Purifying Rain). Mass Energize, a GF3-4 AoE Blessing spell that puts Speed, War Blessing, and Regeneration (I think?) is also in GF5, but is unused. These spells can be reintroduced, if you move some values around.

 

For example, I actually replaced the effects for Battle Roar with the effects of Mass Energize, mainly because Battle Roar's effects turned out to be really crappy, especially considering its cost and when you get it. Also did some other stuff with it, like making it also give Essence Blade to every friendly in the AoE. (Is it really broken? Kinda is. But I can't add additional effects to the Battle Roar spell itself, so I had to improvise). Only strange thing about it is that the Regeneration status effect is applied to creations under your control regardless if they're in the AoE of the spell itself. Also, NPCs don't get Regeneration, but they get the other effects. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gameman112358 said:

For example, I actually replaced the effects for Battle Roar with the effects of Mass Energize, mainly because Battle Roar's effects turned out to be really crappy, especially considering its cost and when you get it. Also did some other stuff with it, like making it also give Essence Blade to every friendly in the AoE. (Is it really broken? Kinda is. But I can't add additional effects to the Battle Roar spell itself, so I had to improvise). Only strange thing about it is that the Regeneration status effect is applied to creations under your control regardless if they're in the AoE of the spell itself. Also, NPCs don't get Regeneration, but they get the other effects. 

The regeneration spell is an aura, which in my experience is applied to every party member regardless of distance, but only to party members (it will not affect nearby friendlies). Essence blade is an essence spell, which will overwrite any present essence spell (like G5's version of augmentation). For that matter, regeneration aura will also overwrite any other aura spells you already have active, like elemental aura.

 

Unless there is some way to alter how the spell itself works (I have never looked very closely at the blessing/mental/healing magic realm of spells in the scripts), I doubt you will be able to fix it to fit your purposes.

 

For reference, according to Matt P. (writer of... like, the only Geneforge walkthroughs), G5 speed has about the same effect as war blessing. From what I can tell, it seems that speed only gives you 25%-33% or so more attacks. And, of course, you no longer get any bonus to your combat movement (considering that speed was an important aspect of stealth in previous games, this is another issue with the new one). Also, in regards to Aura of Flames, what exactly is the difference between it and Purifying Rain? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, TheKian said:

For reference, according to Matt P. (writer of... like, the only Geneforge walkthroughs), G5 speed has about the same effect as war blessing. From what I can tell, it seems that speed only gives you 25%-33% or so more attacks. And, of course, you no longer get any bonus to your combat movement (considering that speed was an important aspect of stealth in previous games, this is another issue with the new one).

 

I believe it's a 33% chance, yes. Which still means your potential damage output in fights where you use it is increased by nearly one-third on average.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TheKian said:

The regeneration spell is an aura, which in my experience is applied to every party member regardless of distance, but only to party members (it will not affect nearby friendlies). Essence blade is an essence spell, which will overwrite any present essence spell (like G5's version of augmentation). For that matter, regeneration aura will also overwrite any other aura spells you already have active, like elemental aura.

 

Unless there is some way to alter how the spell itself works (I have never looked very closely at the blessing/mental/healing magic realm of spells in the scripts), I doubt you will be able to fix it to fit your purposes.

 

For reference, according to Matt P. (writer of... like, the only Geneforge walkthroughs), G5 speed has about the same effect as war blessing. From what I can tell, it seems that speed only gives you 25%-33% or so more attacks. And, of course, you no longer get any bonus to your combat movement (considering that speed was an important aspect of stealth in previous games, this is another issue with the new one). Also, in regards to Aura of Flames, what exactly is the difference between it and Purifying Rain? 

Meh. I personally like what I've done with it. Battle Roar to me was supposed to be this super strong buff that would make you and those fighting alongside you super strong. Instead, we got a very late game useless spell that's not worth the spell energy and essence to use. Most people I imagine would use Essence Blade over the other essence spells, since Essence Blade makes you do much more damage. Not mentioning that the changes make Battle Roar an AoE Essence Blade++; casting Essence Blade on every individual creation and friendly I want to buff is annoying, not mentioning draining on the essence.

 

Regeneration Aura isn't really the most impressive aura in the world; it's sorta just there to help. Slowly getting HP back isn't that useless IMO, but it could be better, I will admit. No way to boost the amount of regeneration you can get each turn though, at least not to my knowledge. But hey, in its current form, it's not that terrible.

 

My modified version of Battle Roar has a few strange quirks, but nothing that is crazy broken. I'm quite happy with what I've done with it. Do I wish I had the tools to modify Geneforge even more (like making the Vampiric Touch stat more useful for example)? Yes, I do. But is it completely impossible to improve some parts of the game? Nope, not even close. There are ways to improve the game, even with the limited tools we have in place.

 

Aura of Flames does fire damage on all enemies that are near you. Requires that you be close to the enemy for the attack to work, however. Purifying Rain is an AoE fire damage attack that can be done at a safe distance away from the enemy. It hits all enemies near the enemy that you target. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Regeneration Aura at the time you get it usually balances out damage you take most rounds. Later in the game it isn't as useful.

 

Jeff was in his transition period of eliminating multiple buff that make expert players too powerful.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

Jeff was in his transition period of eliminating multiple buff that make expert players too powerful.

Nerfing stuff in a single player game because it makes a tiny % of players too powerful sounds like a really bad idea. What about everyone who is not an expert ?

Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Nim said:

Nerfing stuff in a single player game because it makes a tiny % of players too powerful sounds like a really bad idea. What about everyone who is not an expert ?

That was the whole point of the nerf.  Expert players were getting dramatically more value out of OP skills and spells than casual players were, because they zeroed in on them and made them centerpieces of their builds & combat tactics.  Not having OP abilities means that the size of the gap between expert players and casual players actually shrinks.

 

This is obviously different if all you need to do to use the OP skill is "press A."  But when you have to build towards it or unlock it and it's expensive or might take multiple casts or etc... that puts up a wall that keeps casual players out.

 

The good news is, expert players are OK with this, because they will be perfectly happy doing the same amount of analysis and work to get to a skill that is only slightly better.  It's just as fun for them, but much easier* for the designer to balance the game in a way that works for everyone.

 

*Still hard, just not quite as hard.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...