OBoE Suggestion List

[Crynsos]

Is there actually something like a list of Suggestions/Error Corrections/Plans by the Coders which should be added/changed in OBoE? If not, it would be nice if something like this could be compiled and shown publically...

 

Here would be a nice idea:

If possible, raise the maximum HP/MP and the HP gain rate per Level. (If raised too much, Spell costs should be raised a bit as well) This would make make the game maybe a bit more interesting, and we wouldn't get nearly nothing for each level and the many XP Points we need...

 

Raising the maximums for Character/Monster Stat Points could be also raised, especially if the above will be done, so the balance of damage/HP is a bit better...

[*i]

Suggestions are more than welcome, of course. To be implementable in OBoE, things must not break BoE scenarios in the way of actual errors or game balance. In other words, a scenario should created in BoE (theoretically) behave exactly the same when loaded in OBoE.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

What about items that give or remove Sanctuary? Many scenarios include the Dust of Hiding like it's a good thing, even though it doesn't work. No matter whether you set it to be helpful or harmful, it takes away Sanctuary status. Fixing this would change the way scenarios behave, but I can't imagine that any designer intended their scenarios to behave the way they do with regards to this item ability anyway.

[*i]

That could probably be easily fixed.

[Milla]

Fix the acid weaspon doubles as living saving charm deal.

[Crynsos]

Another minor "bug", which is actually more an optical correction:

Create an option in the item editing menu (Scenario Editor) to choose from shooting animations for throwing/shooting weapons.

Currently a few pre-set items have a fixed animation, but once you change anything about these items, a standard animation appears when using the item. (Can't remember which though)

 

It would be interesting to be able to change these animations or maybe even make custom ones! (Bullet/Lasers etc., which could enhance some existing scenarios as well)

[*i]

It would be nice. Right now the one thing stopping me from doing the whole missile animation field is the fact that there is no space for it. Editing the resource file is difficult with the tools available in OS X, in other words I don't know how yet. If someone could figure this out, it would be great.

 

Custom ones will be more difficult. However, again, we need the first before we can do this.

[Duskwolf]

I've got a Python script that'll "explode" a resource file into a directory full of data files. I don't have one that'll do the reverse yet, but I could probably make it if it'd be sufficiently useful. Interested?

[*i]

Possibly. I've been playing around with ResFool a bit and I've been making a little bit of progress on this front. Whether I can do this and preserve reverse compatability remains to be seen.

[Prince of Kitties]

The mindduel code appears to check for items that grant magic resistance (ability 75) instead of will (ability 53). If I'm reading this right it should be easy to fix.

[Crynsos]

Here are a few more suggestions to make OBoE better:

(If it's possible to add these features)

 

Add a possibility to create "Friendly" Wandering Monsters, like the Soldier Patrols in E1/2/3 but make it also possible to attack the wandering monsters. (And they should be maybe able to attack normally with a short dialog window as well, if not possible already, can't remember if possible yet)

 

Some people may like to use Skribbane Herb or similar drugs, but then a new item ability would be needed of course. (Possibly with an option in the Character Editor to counteract or let the time heal the effect)

 

Make it possible to hide any item ability with the ??? sign, like it was possible in the older Exile games, could make certain items more interesting.

 

Make it possible to make an item call a scenario special when used. (The item should be removed once the scenario is left of course)

 

Sounds good or not? At least I think these (Except the last one) additions would bring back some interesting parts of the original Exile Trilogy, which were sadly not carried over to BoE...

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

You can already make friendly wandering monsters with dialogs and optional attacking and whatnot.

 

Skribbane could probably be done well enough with the items-calling-specials suggestion, if that gets implemented. At any rate, there's always Soporific Herbs if that doesn't happen and you really want canonical drugs.

 

Hidden abilities are supposed to be possible, but it's broken and doesn't work, so maybe it could be fixed.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Add a possibility to create "Friendly" Wandering Monsters, like the Soldier Patrols in E1/2/3 but make it also possible to attack the wandering monsters. (And they should be maybe able to attack normally with a short dialog window as well, if not possible already, can't remember if possible yet)

This can already be done in regular BoE. Check out the Wandering Will Fight node.

Quote:

Some people may like to use Skribbane Herb or similar drugs, but then a new item ability would be needed of course. (Possibly with an option in the Character Editor to counteract or let the time heal the effect)

This can be done already with special items, but I think that having regular items which could be used to call special nodes is a good idea if it can be implemented.

EDIT: Well, fine, ADoS. Go ahead and get in while I'm writing my post.

[Crynsos]

Quote:

This can already be done in regular BoE. Check out the Wandering Will Fight node.

Sorry, but haven't used it often, so I wasn't sure if it's possible yet...

Quote:

This can be done already with special items, but I think that having regular items which could be used to call special nodes is a good idea if it can be implemented.

Yes, because normal items can be used quite a bit easier in battle and can help quite well... if you ever used Skribbane in battle, you know that for sure...

[*i]

Quote:

Add a possibility to create "Friendly" Wandering Monsters, like the Soldier Patrols in E1/2/3 but make it also possible to attack the wandering monsters. (And they should be maybe able to attack normally with a short dialog window as well, if not possible already, can't remember if possible yet)

This is already possible and not too difficult to do.

Quote:

Some people may like to use Skribbane Herb or similar drugs, but then a new item ability would be needed of course. (Possibly with an option in the Character Editor to counteract or let the time heal the effect)

I don't think implementing Skribbane as a default item ability would be desirable. See my comment below on calling specials.

Quote:

Make it possible to hide any item ability with the ??? sign, like it was possible in the older Exile games, could make certain items more interesting.

It should theoretically be possible to hide an ability. Unfortunately, this is broken. I'll look into it.

Quote:

Make it possible to make an item call a scenario special when used. (The item should be removed once the scenario is left of course)

This should be possible. I'll try and implement it.

[*i]

Quote:

Originally written by Miramor:
The mindduel code appears to check for items that grant magic resistance (ability 75) instead of will (ability 53). If I'm reading this right it should be easy to fix.

Hmmm...I'm looking at the OS X code and see ability 53 here. Are you looking at the Windows source? If so, could someone verify?

[John S]

There was a thread in the Lyceum about it. I think the poster was on Windows. And the final conclusion was

Quote:

Items that activate for magic resistance appear to tilt mindduels strongly in the player's favor.

[*i]

I know this already, but I need to verify if this is a Windows only problem or something deeper.

[emulrooney]

Suggestion/Requests:

- A special node to check the level in a certain skill. I know theres a way of checking for Mage Lore… shouldn't be too hard to change this special to check other skills. It would also be nice if you could check either one PC or the entire party.

 

- The Edit Statistics node lets you edit any stat except HP or SP. You should be allowed to edit both.

[*i]

I have plans for the checking of stats, it's on my list of things to do. My plan is as follows: edit the "Has Enough Mage Lore?" node to be "Has Enough of Statistic?". The fields will be as follows:

 

ex1a: how much of skill

ex2a: special to call if enough

ex1b: skill index (-1 defaults to mage lore to preserve compatability)

ex2b: 0, -1 - cumulative, 1 - highest, 2 - average, 3 - lowest, 10 + x - that PC.

 

Comments on this? I may just code this up right now.

 

We have an affect statistics, but not set them directly. I think this node and the one above used in conjunction can mimic a Set Statistic node.

[Prince of Kitties]

Here's a small nuisance I almost forgot about... Kill Party/Stone Party nodes kill PCs that don't exist, turning them into corpses that do. Subsequent Resurrect Party nodes will then inflate the party to the full 6 PCs. To avoid inconveniencing people using smaller parties, the game should probably check to make sure that a character exists before killing it.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Miramor:
Here's a small nuisance I almost forgot about... Kill Party/Stone Party nodes kill PCs that don't exist, turning them into corpses that do. Subsequent Resurrect Party nodes will then inflate the party to the full 6 PCs. To avoid inconveniencing people using smaller parties, the game should probably check to make sure that a character exists before killing it.

Some scenarios with premade parties actually use this functionality to give the player little bonus messages in the names of the nonexistent characters when the party is killed. Changing the Kill Party node to work more "correctly" does seem worthwhile, but I'd recommend retaining the old functionality by default for the sake of backwards compatibility.

[Crynsos]

Quote:

Originally written by *i:

Quote:

Originally written by Miramor:
The mindduel code appears to check for items that grant magic resistance (ability 75) instead of will (ability 53). If I'm reading this right it should be easy to fix.

Hmmm...I'm looking at the OS X code and see ability 53 here. Are you looking at the Windows source? If so, could someone verify?

Well I looked a bit at the windows source and checked the item abilities as well. Ability 53 is
still Mind Resistance here as well, but oddly 73 seems to be a Temporary Speed Boost. (Found at speed potions etc., if of any relevance)

Maybe this code (Mindduel's Spell Code for Windows) helps...

case 52: // Mindduel!

store_m_type = -1;
if ((cur_monst->m_d.mu == 0) && (cur_monst->m_d.cl == 0))
add_string_to_buf(" Can't duel: no magic.");
else {
item = pc_has_abil(current_pc,159);
if (item >= 24)
add_string_to_buf(" You need a smoky crystal. ");
else {
remove_charge(current_pc,item);
do_mindduel(current_pc,cur_monst);
}
}
break;

[Prince of Kitties]

Hmm, I was looking in a different file I think (and it was in the Windows source). Just a second...

 

Here, it was in party.cpp:

 

Code:

void do_mindduel(short pc_num,creature_data_type *monst){        short i = 0,adjust,r1,r2,balance = 0;                adjust = (adven[pc_num].level + adven[pc_num].skills[2]) / 2 - monst->m_d.level * 2;        if (pc_has_abil_equip(pc_num,75) < 16)                adjust += 20;        if (monst->attitude % 2 != 1)                make_town_hostile();        monst->attitude = 1;

[*i]

I decided to fix the problem of killing things that are either non-existant or already dead. I decided that preserving backward compatability, in this case, really doesn't affect the overall functionality of the scenarios.

[Crynsos]

I just noticed that the Uncurse Items spell doesn't seem to work (after 2 uses) and I doubt that I need higher INT or something...

 

Don't know about the Mac Version, but I experienced this on Windows...

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

I don't know if any of these have been fixed already:

 

On the Windows version of the scenario editor and the main program (not sure about the Mac version), the smaller Alien Beast graphic does not appear when selecting graphics, when placing the monster in a town, or when seeing the monster in the main program (haven't tested outdoors, but presumably it would be no different). Rather, it is replaced by the Mind Crystal graphic.

 

The Strength Potion cannot be made via alchemy.

 

This may be more complicated to fix, but it would be useful. When a message during dialogue is called via a node, if the player Records the message, bugs occur in the Talking Journal. Not sure about the exact nature of the bugs, but the messages don't record properly.

[Crynsos]

About the alien beast thing, if its not clear already, there's some problem in the program itself, not with the graphics or the graphic selection in the editor, the number to find the mind crystal graphic is just set twice or something like that...

 

And here another thing, not a fix but useful if possible, especially for longer scenarios: Make the game save dialogs records in seperate files, so more/unlimited notes can be saved. If not possible, try to enlarge the dialog records, would be probably quite useful...

[*i]

Enlarging the size of the records is one thing that should be easier with the new file format. I do not support the use of separate files. BoE's biggest strength, in my mind, is its simplicity and keeping everything in two integrated files, a scenario file and a save file.

[Crynsos]

Yes, I have to agree clearly with you about it's simplicity, just thought that this would be another possibility if just enlarging won't work. Shouldn't be a problem with the file size anyway, most scenarios are < 1 MB anyway...

 

Good to hear that anyway...

[Robsta]

I have a number of ideas for the OBoE, both having played the Exiles, BoE and being a programmer and designer myself.

One thing I think Exile could use is less defined limits to advancement.

 

To this end I propose a the following limits:

- SP limit of 5 x Int - this would allow races with bonuses to intelegance a bonus to spell points as well

- Max HP limit of 300, with slowed advancement each level and no buyable(with Skill points) HP allowed after 240 depending on STR - STR 1-3 -> 0HP, STR 4-9 -> 1HP, STR 10-17 -> 2HP, STR 18-20 -> 3HP, STR >20 -> 4HP (The last is only possible with a race with str bonus, and really good str stat)

- Instead of having a maximum level of 50, have a maximum XP of 5500 (this should be level 50 for a PC with a 10% bonus) - could raise this max to 1100 for a 1 PC party, since more boneses are taken, and for the lack of the support of other PCs.

 

I also have a few ideas to increase the possibilities in the race/traits window.

- Return the disadvantage Passafist, a disadvantage from Exile II that I liked, but was removed from its sequals.

- How about an advantage speedy - like sluggish, but the opposite, the PC gains 1 action point! This is powerful, so how about + 20 - 25% XP per level

- More races, I agree with Vogel, alowing scenario designers to create new races would be next to impossible, but the three races presented allow few options (3), thus I propose this be raised to 6 for more options.

Some races I'd suggest -

Goblin - -1 Dex, -1 Int, -15 % XP per level

Vahnatai - +1 Dex, +2 Int, +1 Mage Lore + 25% Xp per level

Orc - +2 Str, -1 Int, Hit bonus with close combat weapons(all three, look at the code for Sliths and pole weapons), damage bonus with close combat weapons (by about 4) + 25% XP per level

Ogre - +3 Str, -1 dex, -1 Int, Damage bonus with close combat weapons (by about 4) + 20% XP per level

 

It would be nice if I had an orc PC, that called itself an orc, not a Slith. For the races, you could let players supply their own graphics for the race they like.

[Crynsos]

Erm, Orcs?

The Exile Universe is made to be different from others, or did you often see Nephs or Sliths in other games/books?

 

There are enough other games with orcs, and few scenarios with orcs... (< 5 if any at all)

Ogres are brute and dumb enough...

 

The rest doesn't sound too bad...

[Robsta]

Yeah, orcs, I'm much too obsessed with them. In the scenario I'm designing (The Quest of the Missing Quill), I have a lengthy explanation on how orcs figure into the Exile world. I can just hope Vogel is fine with it.

[Lilith]

Well, the first rule Jeff set for himself when making fantasy RPGs was "no elves", and orcs are basically evil mutant elves, so Jeff isn't ever likely to include orcs in his own games. But there are plenty of other scenarios that conflict with Exile canon, so it's not as if Jeff is going to violently object to you doing what you like with your own scenarios.

[*i]

Quote:

Originally written by Robsta:
I have a number of ideas for the OBoE, both having played the Exiles, BoE and being a programmer and designer myself.
One thing I think Exile could use is less defined limits to advancement.

While tempting now we have the source, I'm leary of changing the limits of PC advancement. One of the major tentents of this project is to ensure backward compatability in both functionality and balance. The problem is large scenarios that assume a level 50 party throughout might become too easy near the end.

Adding new traits, while possible, again starts to affect game balance. This one is far less "offensive" than the others because it could be possible theoretically to enforce a ban on the new skills.

As for more races, that can be a bit more difficult than you think and has the same reason as above. Orcs, definitely not. Only races that are part of traditional Exile canon should be allowed. While I could see the option of defining custom races for premade partys in specific scenarios, trying to coordinate all of the different races between them would be too difficult.

[Ishad Nha]

The PC Character Editor only uses the default list of items, bad news if the scenario has a lot of custom items. By contrast, in Blades of Avernum the Character Editor reflects the list of items actually used by the scenario concerned.

 

Another improvement would be to enable customization of the shortcut buttons used by the editing buttons in the Scenario Editor.

[CommonGenius.com]

The ability to target spells using letter designators (like Avernum) would be really nice. Right now I have to switch to the mouse when targeting npcs. I had forgotten how much of a pain that is. Not a simple change I know...

[Robsta]

Quote:

Originally written by *i:
While tempting now we have the source, I'm leary of changing the limits of PC advancement. One of the major tentents of this project is to ensure backward compatability in both functionality and balance. The problem is large scenarios that assume a level 50 party throughout might become too easy near the end.

While most of my suggestions of limits pushed the limits a bit.

Quote:

Origionally written by Robsta:
To this end I propose a the following limits:
- SP limit of 5 x Int - this would allow races with bonuses to intelegance a bonus to spell points as well
- Max HP limit of 300, with slowed advancement each level and no buyable(with Skill points) HP allowed after 240 depending on STR - STR 1-3 -> 0HP, STR 4-9 -> 1HP, STR 10-17 -> 2HP, STR 18-20 -> 3HP, STR >20 -> 4HP (The last is only possible with a race with str bonus, and really good str stat)
- Instead of having a maximum level of 50, have a maximum XP of 5500 (this should be level 50 for a PC with a 10% bonus) - could raise this max to 1100 for a 1 PC party, since more boneses are taken, and for the lack of the support of other PCs.

My idea of changing the level limit to an XP limit was not one that should make parties stronger than expected, at any point in a scenario. The main reason for this suggestion was actually the opposite - so that parties will be at the same level of ability in higher level scenarios. Currently a party with every Pc either Neph or Slith and with all the good traits and none of the bad traits will have an easy time at a long 50th level scenario while a party of all humans, none of the good traits and all the bad traits, would have a nearly impossible time of beating.
Thus this suggestion is not so a high level party can slowly become too powerful for such scenarios, but to turn good/bad traits from a decider of how powerful a party is when their levels are maxed out, into what they were meant to be (I hope), distinctive traits to make each character unique, without changing their power too much.
If you feel the extra levels will unbalance the abilities of the traits, it’s easy to fix, combine the max of levels and XP.
e.g. (in pseudo code) if(Character.XP + 5*Character.Level > 6000) {GiveNoXP = true;}

[*Milu*]

(If this wasn't known already...)

 

Quote:

The Strength Potion cannot be made via alchemy.

This seems to depend on version. I just made a strong strength potion. (Using the original Mac version 1.0.2 of the game.)

[Lilith]

It works fine for me too; I think it's a Windows-only bug. Still, as long as the bug exists for anyone, scenario designers have to design around it.

[Crynsos]

Another minor improvemet: Make it possible to use custom scenario icons. Currently you can only use the pre-made ones (and a few buggy item ones, see Echoes: Black Horse), and this is probably the only graphic, which can't be changed through a custom graphics file...

[Robsta]

Here's another suggestion, this time about modifying the stairway node - make it that if extra 1a and 1b are set to -1, than place the party in the new town with the same x and y coordinates(it currently puts them at (-1,-1)). This could be useful in 2 cases I can think of; if there are 2(or more) levels in a town/dungeon one on top of the other with staircases connecting them, or if a scenario has day/night versions of towns, it can switch between them when the party is in town.

[Kelandon]

I've made this suggestion elsewhere to no response, as far as I can tell, so here it is again: make the Windows and Mac dialogue font size the same, so that scenarios that were made on Windows with two full text boxes of dialogue in a node will display correctly on Macs, too. (See The Election for an example.)

[Crynsos]

Good idea, which lets another idea pop up in my mind. As far as I've seen (and can remember from the Mac version, the BoE font "MaidenWork" isn't used anywhere in BoE itself. (At least I didn't see it, maybe something is wrong?)

 

If it's really nowhere yet, use it in all/most texts, would probably look great...

[Sullust]

This is probably extremely wishful thinking, but a port to DS via 'homebrew' would be nice...

[RogueThunder]

I have what could be a very big or very small request.

 

An extended graphics mode.

 

Sush sush, nothing huge per say, just, the ability to make the view area actually take up say, a XGA screen? in format. Perhaps configurable as an option?

 

I could actually see this not being game breaking, or even significantly altering, to at least... most current scenarios. But at the same time for those of us who... would like to.

 

Knowing the little I do... This could be as simple as setting an X/Y value as configurable. Or horribly terrifyingly complex...

 

Anyway, thats my suggestion... *vanishes again*

[Robsta]

Another bug I found. In the original BoE, custom item graphics have transparent backgrounds when on the ground and in the get items screen, but not when it is in your inventory. It should be transparent all the time.

[Ishad Nha]

In the Scenario Editor the "zoom - out" part of Change View uses icons from Mixed.bmp. Thus there is no provision for terrain with custom graphics to have icons when the view is zoomed out. So custom graphics are then replaced by black squares.

 

Ditto when you look at an Edit Terrain Type screen the custom graphics are replaced by black squares once again.

 

Then when view is zoomed in, the roads are not shown clearly, whereas they are shown in the zoom out view.

[Prince of Kitties]

If it hasn't been implemented already, and isn't too nasty... Checks for RoS casting on a space should be made into a check for a spell cast on a space, defaulting to RoS. There are ways around the lack of a spell-on-space check but they're kind of ugly, and don't really allow for requiring specific spells.

 

(Spell-effect-on-space would be even better, but I think it could be extremely nasty to implement.)

[Prince of Kitties]

Another suggestion, which may be difficult to implement but could make a lot of scenarios (e.g. At the Gallows) work better - time passage could do with some fixing. It's been known for a while that a "day" spent in the overland map (or in bed at an inn) is not counted as a day, or at least not as a full day, for all purposes. Making time spent in bed or outdoors count properly would make certain scenarios less annoying to players.

 

(It might also make some scenarios a bit more difficult, but I highly doubt it would do so to the point of making them unplayable.)