Cannon endings

[Scourge of the Rebellion]

I have played through every geneforge game and I came to the conclusion that each game continues on from the previous game(s) but only from a certain ending (canon) . Also do you think that the chacter you play as in geneforge 5 is the same person as you play as in geneforge 3.

[alhoon]

If you play a Rebel-class character, obviously not.

[Scourge of the Rebellion]

Are you commenting on my name or are u trying to tell me something

[alhoon]

I mean: geneforge 3 you're shaper, agent or guardian. In GF5, you may be say, a servile. If you're a servile or Sorceress or Shocktrooper, you're obviously NOT the GF3 character.

[Scourge of the Rebellion]

Good point although I've come to the conclusion that in every gene forge game the "canon" class is specifcly a shaper we know this for:

 

Gene forge one: reference to class in gene forge 2 and 4 ( history of sucia island)

 

Gene forge 2: the Zachary barazel history talk in future games states "a young shaper" not to mention the pictures at the start and end of the game ( note clothing)

 

Gene forge 3: alwan + greta tell the protagonist that they traveled as a : guardian, agent and a shaper, 3 man group. (Geneforge 4)

 

Geneforge 4: everyone calls you "life crafter" not to mention references to the main character you play as in gene forge 4 (in gene forge 5)

 

Gene forge 5: dosnt matter as it is the last of the series

 

 

You may have to read over that multiply times for it to make sense but I have done my research;)

 

[Scourge of the Rebellion]

Good point although I've come to the conclusion that in every gene forge game the "canon" class is specifcly a shaper we know this for:

 

Gene forge one: reference to class in gene forge 2 and 4 ( history of sucia island)

 

Gene forge 2: the Zachary barazel history talk in future games states "a young shaper" not to mention the pictures at the start and end of the game ( note clothing)

 

Gene forge 3: alwan + greta tell the protagonist that they traveled as a : guardian, agent and a shaper, 3 man group. (Geneforge 4)

 

Geneforge 4: everyone calls you "life crafter" not to mention references to the main character you play as in gene forge 4 (in gene forge 5)

 

Gene forge 5: dosnt matter as it is the last of the series

 

 

You may have to read over that multiply times for it to make sense but I have done my research;)

by the way gene forge = Geneforge ( sorry auto spell)

[Scourge of the Rebellion]

Personally I think each Geneforge game continues on from the one before it but only from a certain ending and class

What do you think of that?

[questionmarket superscrip]

For the servile, sure. For the others, given the amount of reshaping the G5 character has had, I don't think it's out of the question they could have ended up with a different set of strengths and weaknesses for learning.

 

EDIT: Also, remember you can edit a post to add something rather than making 3 in a row... this is not a chat room

[Scourge of the Rebellion]

Yeah sorry lol

But what exactly do you mean?

I think that Geneforge 4 continues on from Geneforge 3, but only if the character in Geneforge 3 was:

A: a rebel+

B: a canister addict

That would also mean that the character u play as in number 3 could easily be the same as the person u play as in number 5

Heavily warped

Recignised by alwan and greta and litilia ( all Geneforge 3 characters)

[Unbound Servile]

Hey Scourge of the Rebellion,

 

I have read alot of topics on this forum regarding the Geneforge 5 protagonist's past,

and I suspect too that the G5 protagonist is probably the G3 protagonist, for a number of reasons.

 

1. Multiple important characters from the latter Geneforge games seem to recognize you, inculding Alwan, Greta and Litalia. Their reaction upon encounter in G5 makes me believe you were once important to them in the past and that they personally knew you.

 

2. The game states that the G5 protagonist has undergone alot of alteration in his/her past. Since the alterations seem to be numerous and powerful, it makes me believe that the G5 protagonist was a person of power and influence who had acces to valuable resources, and not a random general, Pol, or Augmented Russian Sholai.

 

3. Lara in the Dera Reaches leads me to confirm my speculations that the G5 protagonist was a protagonist from a previous game.

 

4. It was stated in previous Geneforge games that one can only benefit once from the effects of the Geneforge. When the user's genes are modified and realigned by the Geneforge, that person can swim freely into the pool (as stated in G1). The protagonist in G5 uses the Rawalforge which severely reduces the possibility that the G4 and G5 protagonists are the same person, since the G4 portagonist uses the Geneforge in Southforge Citadel.

 

5. Note that both the G3 and G5 slideshows feature a female protagonist.

 

6. Although Alwan, Greta, ... seem to recognize the G5 protagonist, their recognition is rather faint. Too faint to think the G5 protagonist is the G4 protagonist but strong enough to suspect he/she was the G3 protagonist.

[alhoon]

Actually #6 works for against the GF3 theory. Greta and Alwan's meetings with the GF3 Shaper were far deeper and personal than with the GF4 rebel. They travelled together at their formative years.

 

#4 is kinda more bogus than clear. GF5 makes clear that the Geneforge of Rawal "resets" the character although he or she have used a geneforge in the past.

 

 

My favorite theory? GF1 or (with a stretch cause of the time) GF2 protagonist turned to Monarch turned to GF5 character.

[Tacowarrior]

Actually #6 works for against the GF3 theory. Greta and Alwan's meetings with the GF3 Shaper were far deeper and personal than with the GF4 rebel. They travelled together at their formative years.

 

#4 is kinda more bogus than clear. GF5 makes clear that the Geneforge of Rawal "resets" the character although he or she have used a geneforge in the past.

 

 

My favorite theory? GF1 or (with a stretch cause of the time) GF2 protagonist turned to Monarch turned to GF5 character.

 

I can actually buy this.

[Unbound Servile]

Alhoon: Actually #6 works for against the GF3 theory. Greta and Alwan's meetings with the GF3 Shaper were far deeper and personal than with the GF4 rebel. They travelled together at their formative years.

 

#6 is not contradictory with my theory; the game states that the protagonist's exterior was heavily modified as well, which explains the faint recognition. Also, it's been some years (roughly 10 years) since Alwan and Greta have seen their old companion from back on the isles. In that time, lots of other people have come into Alwan and Greta's lives (e.g. Alwan & Miranda). Plus, there is a war going on out there.

Would you, in such circumstances, in split-second, remember a heavily modified, barely recognizable old companion of yours who just waltzed through your door?

Alwan, Greta, ... actually do remember you (albeit faintly), their reaction makes me strongly suspect that they had a personal relationship with the G5 protagonist, but a relationship from the past. Their behavior suggest that you remind them of someone they used to spend alot of time with.

 

Alhoon: #4 is kinda more bogus than clear. GF5 makes clear that the Geneforge of Rawal "resets" the character although he or she have used a geneforge in the past.

 

The Geneforge was designed to modify one individual only once. When the G5 protagonist uses the Rawalforge, it modifies him/her as intended and removes some of the fog that blurs his/her mind. I would say that the partial clearance of the protagonist's mind is that so-called "reset".

 

Alhoon: My favorite theory? GF1 or (with a stretch cause of the time) GF2 protagonist turned to Monarch turned to GF5 character.

 

G1 protagonist seems quite unlikely to me, but the Monarch theory is pretty cool and seems to be one of the most common (along with the G3 theory).

 

I still cling to the G3 protagonist theory (because of the multitude of pro-arguments for that theory), but it's interesting to hear (or read) what you think!

[ThricebornPhoenix]

I like the G1 -> G5 theory (Monarch optional) just because G5 was a return to G1 in so many other ways that it achieves a powerful degree of thematic resonance with a side of nostalgic fondness.

 

4. It was stated in previous Geneforge games that one can only benefit once from the effects of the Geneforge. When the user's genes are modified and realigned by the Geneforge, that person can swim freely into the pool (as stated in G1). The protagonist in G5 uses the Rawalforge which severely reduces the possibility that the G4 and G5 protagonists are the same person, since the G4 portagonist uses the Geneforge in Southforge Citadel.

Actually, the G5 protagonist had previously suffered unspecified damage, which was the cause of their amnesia. It could be due to severe canister abuse, a bad canister, some slight defect in the rebels' Geneforge, or something else entirely. I'm pretty sure some kind of self-Shaping is either heavily implied or outright stated... which, if anything, makes the G2 and G3 protagonists the least likely candidates, since those are the only games that discourage that sort of thing in all forms. One could, conceivably, play G1 without using canisters, but you're very much expected to use them. G4 still penalizes using too many canisters, but requires using the rebel Geneforge to progress.

[Lilith]

Yeah, my read on what happened when using the Geneforge in G5 was that the protagonist had used a Geneforge before and using it again basically reset their genes to the state they were in when they first used it, undoing all the damage that had been done since, like reimaging a hard drive.

[Unbound Servile]

Yeah, my read on what happened when using the Geneforge in G5 was that the protagonist had used a Geneforge before and using it again basically reset their genes to the state they were in when they first used it, undoing all the damage that had been done since, like reimaging a hard drive.

 

Hey Lilith,

I have to give you this one, I searched the G5 scripts, and I found evidence that the G5 protagonist has used the Geneforge before.

 

begintalknode 74;

state = 71;

nextstate = 72;

condition = 1;

question = "(Start screaming.)";

text1 = "Another fragment of memory. A scream. From the first time you touched the Geneforge. It matches exactly the scream you are letting out right now.";

 

Perhaps the G3 protagonist theory is less plausible than I first thought. Yet, there are still plenty of pro-arguments, too much to just abandon the theory.

[questionmarket superscrip]

If the G3 went canister crazy and also sided with the Rebels for a bit, it doesn't seem too unlikely that they'd end up using a Geneforge, given how freely that's being handed out by the time G4 starts.

[alhoon]

Speaking of that, I expected to see way more lifecrafters in GF5. Fighting a war against Shapers could have ended more quickly if after gaining so much land, the Rebels rounded up everyone interested in half of Terrestia and turn (those that survive the ordeal) to lifecrafters. A Shaper takes years of training. A Lifecrafter a month or two... when there's no pressure. If there's pressure they can throw whatever caution they have in the wind and introduce every willing servile, drakon or human to the geneforge as they do with the protagonist in GF4.

[Sudanna]

Aren't the Geneforges widely used in G4 just for giving people with no Shaping ability a little bit of seed Shaping ability, though? The G3 protagonist wouldn't need that.

[Unbound Servile]

If the G3 went canister crazy and also sided with the Rebels for a bit, it doesn't seem too unlikely that they'd end up using a Geneforge, given how freely that's being handed out by the time G4 starts.

 

True, also notice that our beloved Rawal found the G5 protagonist near the Drypeak mountains, the center of Rebel power. If the G5 protagonist wanted to, he/she could have easily gained acces to a Geneforge from there.

[Scourge of the Rebellion]

You all have very interesting points but here is what annoys me no matter what you do in geneforge 5 in the end it never Tells you who you where

 

Hopefully Jeff can enlighten us on this in the geneforge remakes

[Scourge of the Rebellion]

And I quite literally played every different way possible and always got at the end

 

"One thing bothered you though you never found out who you where before..."

[Blxz]

Probably by design. I doubt Jeff would reveal where he envisions the protagonist coming from. Leaves the game more open and up to the interpretation of the player which seems to be a common theme in many of Jeff's games.

 

Although to be fair, perhaps he meant to write it in somewhere and just got bored and wrapped the series up? We will likely never know.

[alhoon]

I doubt Jeff even KNOWS who the protagonist is, since you can be rebel-shaper-servile.

 

 

Of course, non-canonically us modders can provide an answer in our mods

[Blxz]

Of course, non-canonically us modders can provide an answer in our mods

 

I vote for Attack Helicopter.

 

Bonus points of course if you even understand the reference.

[Unbound Servile]

I doubt Jeff even KNOWS who the protagonist is, since you can be rebel-shaper-servile.

You can RP to be Pol.

[alhoon]

BLXZ: I didn't get the reference.

Anyway, feel free to mod it. It is, theoretically, possible.

[Blxz]

BLXZ: I didn't get the reference.

Anyway, feel free to mod it. It is, theoretically, possible.

 

You can't be a true REBEL since you clearly don't follow their MEDIA.

 

Perhaps the capitalisation is too obvious? I guess it doesn't matter since it's hardly a funny reference.

[Scourge of the Rebellion]

what do you all think of the CANON class being shaper in all the games

 

i think this is the case because of references to the protagonists' of previous games, that we are told in latter games not to mention pictures of you in endings/cut-scenes

[Scourge of the Rebellion]

besides geneforge 5 which it is clear you are a sorceress class

 

also one of you mentioned genders: in geneforge 1 2 and 4 you are very clearly male (endings cut-scenes) while in genforge 3 and 5 you are very clearly female for the same reason

[Blxz]

Considering everyone are referred to as shapers I think the games are still left up to the individuals interpretation.

 

An Agent is a shaper. A Guardian is a shaper and a 'Shaper' is a shaper. So yes, all the previous protagonists were shapers.

[Unbound Servile]

It's mentioned a couple of times across the games that all Shaper classes (including Agent and Guardian) are generally referred to as "Shapers".

So when a character refers to a previous game's protagonist as "Shaper", we don't have to assume he or she to actually be a Shaper of class.

Indeed, sometimes the protagonist is shown in the slideshows, and there he/she incarnates as one of the Shaper (or Rebel) classes, but that's just a graphical "limitation".

If you have played Diablo III, you'll notice that the cinematics change according to the class you are playing. This hasn't been done for Geneforge, but that doesn't mean that the protagonist has to be that class that was used for him/her in the slideshows. On top of that, in those slideshows, there has never been given a mention of the visualised class' special traits; when a Guardian is portrayed, the text doesn't state the protagonist's physical prowess, the same goes for an Agent and her talents at espionage et cetera.

 

Scourge of the Rebellion: I came to the conclusion that each game continues on from the previous game(s) but only from a certain ending (canon).

 

That's, in fact, true. Some endings are indeed inconsistent with the start of the next game. A good example is the G2 Awakened ending. Without spoiling too much, the Awakened engineer a defense system to protect their home from the impending Shaper invasion. In the latter Geneforges, no trace is to be found of this defense system and no character in the games comments on its existance or destruction. Most endings, though, fit with the start of the next game.

[Blxz]

There pretty much is no actual canon ending anyway. Nothing perfectly matches up. Generally the next games start off in some sort of hybrid or modified versions of one of the endings.

[Scourge of the Rebellion]

I guess but Bliz there are so many variations to all endings that its wrong for you to say that

I've played through all games every way possible ( and I literally played through some of them clicking every single plant , crate ect)

And I've found that if you knew how it is possible to get a canon ending.

[Blxz]

its wrong for you to say that

 

I would disagree. However I do not have the energy to go through finding enough evidence of why no actual game ending exactly matches the next game start.

 

However since you are so clearly well informed about the game endings surely you notice that there are no exact matches between previous game endings and next game stories. Yes there is very clearly a 'dominant' ending such as rebels winning in G3. When you start G4 though you will notice a number of factual inconsistency's with the G3 ending story and what G4 has to say about what happened.

 

This is indeed the case for every other game where there is often a close match but no exact match. Again, the evidence is there somewhere but time, effort, and care factor prevent me from getting specific examples. You can either look them up yourself, take my word, or dismiss me out of hand; which ending you choose is entirely up to you the player.

[Lilith]

The example that comes to mind for me is that it's impossible to get the rebel ending in Geneforge 3 without killing Khyryk, and yet Khyryk is alive in Geneforge 4 despite the rest of the setup being consistent with a rebel victory in the previous game.

[Scourge of the Rebellion]

Fare enough

[Scourge of the Rebellion]

To be honest you are probably right although it's fun to wonder...