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Excessively Good


Brainless Void
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Knowledge is knowledge. Power is power. They can be used for good or for evil. But the quantities don't matter. A little knowledge can be used for evil too. On it's own Knowledge isnt bad in excess.

 

Thats exactly the point. It can be used for evil. You are also right in saying little knowledge can be used to do evil. So, we can say that a lot more knowledge can be used to do a lot more evil. Yes knowledge can be used for the good but the possibility that it can be used for bad purposes make it really bad in excess.

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Exercise? And I second Owenrus. (Sadly I have liked too many posts so I couldn't like any more posts in this thread. It makes a bit sad.)

 

Oh and happiness! Smiling!

 

Too much exercise can injure you. Happiness and smiling? Hmm, I think there are certain times when smiling will be an inappropriate reaction, so too much smiling will get you there.

 

As for happiness, you can get to the point when you are too happy so you already neglect your problems or maybe even your job. I think that would be a mental problem too.

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Ah yes, I forgot about the part where it needs to be excessive. I was a in bit of a hurry when replying to the thread earlier. Well, I'm not sure if being excessively happy can cause one to neglect one's job. It can certainly cause irritation in others who are having a bad day but as for the subject itself? I don't know.

 

Then again, being excessively happy "contaminates" others, in a good way. I went to the grocery store the other day and there was this angelic girl as the cashier. She smiled at every customer and she practically radiated with genuine positivity. I consider myself very, very extremely cynical person but I couldn't but feel "tainted" with that light and positivity. After sharing a small bit of chatter with the cashier I left the shop, still grinning like an idiot even when reaching my car at the parking lot.

 

EDIT:

I wonder if there is something that you can increase infinitely, be absurdly in excess, but is still good.

 

I'm not sure if there is anything that can be taken to the extreme and still maintaining an ethical value of being "good". (This would make for a really good philosophical discussion.)

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Excess food crop production.

 

Excess money after a purchase.

 

Excess time after running errands.

 

Excess space in your backpack.

 

Excess delegates in the presidential nomination.

 

Excess letters after making your favourite swear word out of magnetic letters on the fridge.

 

Excess payment given as a tip.

 

Excess examples of times when excess was not really all that excessive but was pretty much done just for the fun of saying excess an excessive number of times.

 

Excessively using words in that last sentence. Or alternatively, using words in that last sentence to excess.

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Excess food crop production.

 

Excess money after a purchase.

 

Excess time after running errands.

 

Excess space in your backpack.

 

Excess delegates in the presidential nomination.

 

Excess letters after making your favourite swear word out of magnetic letters on the fridge.

 

Excess payment given as a tip.

 

Excess examples of times when excess was not really all that excessive but was pretty much done just for the fun of saying excess an excessive number of times.

 

Excessively using words in that last sentence. Or alternatively, using words in that last sentence to excess.

 

Well I think everything excess that you mentioned is either a waste of resources and/or energy and/or be used for evil purposes.

 

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Well I think everything excess that you mentioned is either a waste of resources and/or energy and/or be used for evil purposes.

 

I disagree.

 

Excess food production is good because it can be given or sold to feed hungry mouths.

 

Excess money after a purchase implies that the item was cheaper than you thought it was. A distinct lack of waste here.

 

Excess time is borderline but can mean either free time to do something optional or too much free time in which one must wait around. As I said, borderline.

 

Excess space in the backpack implies that it meets the requirements. This is good.

 

Excess delegates is a good thing as if you are running in the election (or if someone you support is running) then more is always better. If the person you dislike wins then that is not excess, that is insufficient. Hence...always good. (from a 1st person point of view)

 

Excess letters. Again a borderline case but excess is more likely to mean a couple spare than it is to mean metric tonnes of the stuff raining down and killing people. I assume we are being at least partially realistic in which case; excess - not bad.

 

Excess payment as a tip. Freely given and pleasantly unexpected. Nothing extra required from the person receiving and hence no reason to do anything they were unprepared to do. Not bad.

 

And words....ohh excessive words can be bad. But not when the excess is so excessively planned and timed so that there is no excess time before bed. In fact, an excess of time is most certainly what I do not have. Now is bed time for me. Excessive good nights.

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Despite the old saw about the root of all evil, I don't think you can really have too much money. You can misuse it, sure, or let it warp you, but it doesn't necessarily do that. You can use money for good, and you can always use more money for more good. Excessive pursuit of wealth to the exclusion of other considerations is bad; but having wealth is fine.

 

—Alorael, who can see an argument that money isn't particularly good in excess. That's fine and quite possible. That still doesn't make it bad in excess.

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Despite the old saw about the root of all evil, I don't think you can really have too much money. You can misuse it, sure, or let it warp you, but it doesn't necessarily do that. You can use money for good, and you can always use more money for more good. Excessive pursuit of wealth to the exclusion of other considerations is bad; but having wealth is fine.

 

Depends on who you ask. Voluntarily holding onto a ton of money, while other people are starving etc. for lack of it, IMO qualifies as a form of hording.

 

Also, I suppose this thread might be a bit less silly than it seemed to me at the outset...

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I'm so sure that in most cases here its not the excess of the thing that is bad. Just the humans that hold the thing in excess can be bad. In which case is as i said above. A bad person will still be bad if they're broke and dumb and starving and busy and stand alone etc... Its human. A computer with excess knowledge or the internet for that matter can't be evil. Its only people that can.

Also i really second almost everything blxz has said.

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I'm so sure that in most cases here its not the excess of the thing that is bad. Just the humans that hold the thing in excess can be bad. In which case is as i said above. A bad person will still be bad if they're broke and dumb and starving and busy and stand alone etc... Its human. A computer with excess knowledge or the internet for that matter can't be evil. Its only people that can.

Also i really second almost everything blxz has said.

 

Well some things can be bad too without humans in the picture. Take a volcano for example. Imagine it erupted so excessively strong it wiped out everything off the face of this planet. Well thats bad right?

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Good and bad are concepts created by a human mind to conceptualize the world around oneself. Animals, praise them with all due respect they deserve, alas do not have access to excess intelligence and cannot figure out the difference between right and wrong, good or bad. They only live based on what they need, be it food, sleep, other annual necessities or belonging to a pack, which may be strengthened by being playful with other members and bonding with them further.

 

The world in itself is neutral. If a volcano was to erupt in an excessive manner and destroyed the entirety of the earth, then it would be certainly very lamentable. But would it be bad or wrong? No. It just happened. Volcano, a bunch of atoms, has no consciousness and cannot perform ethical or moralistic choices. It simply follows the laws of physics that apply in our universe. The animals and plants would suffer, of course, but they would only know to run and/or hide from such a cataclysmic event. They do not have the concept of being wronged; their limited intelligence doesn't allow to carry grudges simply because from an animal's or a plant's point of view it would be a waste of resources that could be used on reaching some other excessively better destination, such as finding something to eat.

 

EDIT:

... ... A computer with excess knowledge or the internet for that matter can't be evil. Its only people that can. ... ...

 

It cannot be evil, so long as it doesn't have a consciousness and cannot perform a choice between what humanity defines as good and bad. If an excessively artificial intelligence was ever invented, it'd be another story.

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Excess happiness is bad, yes. There's a psychiatric symptom called "euphoria" which can be caused by psychosis (particularly mania), as well as heroin and other street and prescription drugs. In a state of euphoria, everything seems great and nothing seems bad. This can lead to risky or dangerous behavior, neglecting one's job and activities of daily living, etc.

 

Sadness, stress, anger, and anxiety, in moderation, are necessary to maintain motivation. The supreme happiness of euphoria overpowers those emotions and can lead to violent, gruesome death.

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Excess happiness is bad, yes. There's a psychiatric symptom called "euphoria" which can be caused by psychosis (particularly mania), as well as heroin and other street and prescription drugs. In a state of euphoria, everything seems great and nothing seems bad. This can lead to risky or dangerous behavior, neglecting one's job and activities of daily living, etc.

 

Sadness, stress, anger, and anxiety, in moderation, are necessary to maintain motivation. The supreme happiness of euphoria overpowers those emotions and can lead to violent, gruesome death.

 

Honestly idk about that. Seems legit. But even if not so. If you have a too happy life(not to the point of being outward unhealthy) you won't be ready to face a lot of situations. Sadness anger etc.. are emotions everyone should have just because as social beings it is important to learn how to deal with these feelings and situations.

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Also i remember saying most cases here. Lots of stuff are bad in excess. But some are only bad if the being that has them is bad. In their own they are just a tool. I can use a spoon to it i can eat a spoon to rob a bank. The spoon isnt bad(although excess spoons are to be avoided) the spoon is just a means to an end. The end is dictated by an array of things including your personality, upbringing, creativity, morals etc... for instance the glofish. Using our knowledge of genetics we created this perfectly useless being. Not a good or bad thing in terms of well mostly usefullness. But they are neat. With genetics we also created some usefull stuff like production of insulin using microbes. Using genetics we also have the bad sides such as proponents of eugenics. The knowledge of genetics didnt create any of those. We did.

Also see zaego. Give computer excess storage space and excess information. The computer will do nothing with it. It lacks a conscience.

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I feel like this is tautological; excess strongly implies (or denotes, but I don't want to double check the dictionary) too much of something, something to the point that it's bad.

 

In general, there are diminishing marginal returns. I would like to drink a latte. If I drank another latte, I'd probably still enjoy it. If you made me drink twenty lattes, whew, I'd be suffering. This is simply considered a law in economics.

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Also i remember saying most cases here. Lots of stuff are bad in excess. But some are only bad if the being that has them is bad. In their own they are just a tool. I can use a spoon to it i can eat a spoon to rob a bank. The spoon isnt bad(although excess spoons are to be avoided) the spoon is just a means to an end. The end is dictated by an array of things including your personality, upbringing, creativity, morals etc... for instance the glofish. Using our knowledge of genetics we created this perfectly useless being. Not a good or bad thing in terms of well mostly usefullness. But they are neat. With genetics we also created some usefull stuff like production of insulin using microbes. Using genetics we also have the bad sides such as proponents of eugenics. The knowledge of genetics didnt create any of those. We did.

Also see zaego. Give computer excess storage space and excess information. The computer will do nothing with it. It lacks a conscience.

 

Well humans are the ones responsible for the creation of the concept of good or bad, so I think anything that we label as good or bad is valid.

 

I feel like this is tautological; excess strongly implies (or denotes, but I don't want to double check the dictionary) too much of something, something to the point that it's bad.

 

In general, there are diminishing marginal returns. I would like to drink a latte. If I drank another latte, I'd probably still enjoy it. If you made me drink twenty lattes, whew, I'd be suffering. This is simply considered a law in economics.

 

I have to disagree that this is simply just a problem in economics because of the fact that not everything excessive is quantifiable and can be measured with numbers.

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The basic question here, I think, is whether there is anything that is not necessarily bad as the quantity approaches infinity. I think money fits here. Sure, infinite money can conceivably be bad, but I don't think it is necessarily, inherently bad in the way many things are. I'd say the same is true of knowledge or experiences. Sure, you can know or experience things that are distressing and negative, but you can also accumulate a vast understanding of interesting stuff. There's nothing inherently wrong with it.

 

 

Drinking lattes in an example where excess is bad. A latte is good. A couple of lattes is probably fine. Four hundred lattes in an hour will kill you, by sheer volume of fluid to be consumed if nothing else.

 

 

 

There's the economic idea of marginal utility, where (roughly) the value of n+1 compared to n of whatever goes down as n increases. This doesn't necessarily make more bad, just less good. The difference between zero dollars and ten dollars is, in practical terms, huge. The difference between $1,000,000 and 1,000,010 is negligible to the millionaire. Money classically fits that pattern, as do most goods and services; that's why it's an important economic concept.

 

I have some problems with the idea of excess happiness. As an extreme, euphoria is very pleasant. It's an emotional state, not necessarily a symptom. It can be due to mania or intoxication, both of which have problems of their own, but there's non-pathologic reasons to be euphoric too. Permanent, baseless euphoria is probably a problem, but it's a problem because all the reasons you'd feel like that are bad and come with other severe issues. But even mania, the classic state leading to euphoria, isn't really dangerous because of the euphoria. It's dangerous because of impaired judgment, potentially delusions, and often bizarre or dangerous behavior. Drugs that induce euphoria have risks of overdose, risks of withdrawal, health consequences, and costs. If someone made a pill that caused a euphoric state for a few hours without other problems, without tolerance or withdrawal, it would make for a very interesting day for the FDA and legal system.

 

—Alorael, who writes this within earshot of a man yelling about how he is the president of the hospital and will sue everyone. That's not good mania. To be fair, he's also not euphoric.

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The question in the first post could be rephrased as asking whether there's such a thing as an excess for everything. Otherwise yes, the question's basically tautological.

 

—Alorael, who agrees that there's an obvious excess of food and drink. And most activities. Size. Number of limbs, eyes, or kidneys. All kinds of things!

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Im sorry if the question in the first post maybe too vague. It could be rephrased more accurately as: Is there anything, be it matter, energy or abstract, that can be increased infinitely and still has 0% chance to affect anything in any negative way?

 

If there is something that could qualify this then it can be debunk the saying that anything in excess is bad. Otherwise, the statement remains true.

 

Edit

I forgot to state that it must be in excess too. There are some things that you can increase infinitely but still not be in excess (like numbers).

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"0% chance to affect anything in any negative way" is a pretty stringent standard for anything. Under that definition, you might well prove not just that excess is always 'bad,' but in fact that any quanity (zero or nonzero!) is always 'bad.'

 

AFAIK there is no statement that says just the right amount is always good, so there is no point discussing things not in the excess.

 

If we are to prove that something is right, then there must not exist any exemption, and any small chance is an exemption. So I think that it is still a good definition.

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Is there anything that can never be bad in any quantity? I'm drawing a blank. I can always concoct a scenario in which a given amount of anything is pretty much catastrophic. So... I guess the answer to your question is no, but it seems like a rather meaningless question.

 

—Alorael, who could go deep into abstractions to answer this. An infinite amount of zero is at least no more likely to be bad than no zero at all, and for the same reason. Goodness as a quality definitionally only gives you more good as it increases.

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Is there anything that can never be bad in any quantity? I'm drawing a blank. I can always concoct a scenario in which a given amount of anything is pretty much catastrophic. So... I guess the answer to your question is no, but it seems like a rather meaningless question.

 

—Alorael, who could go deep into abstractions to answer this. An infinite amount of zero is at least no more likely to be bad than no zero at all, and for the same reason. Goodness as a quality definitionally only gives you more good as it increases.

 

I posted this topic here because I had this heated argument with my friends 2 days ago about this. Im on the side of disproving the statement so I had to come up with something but like you, Im also drawing a blank so I came and posted here, maybe to find so fresh ideas.

 

As for goodness, I think that goodness in anything can be abused so thats negative.

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I think the issue of "excess good" isn't in and of itself a thing, but due to the raw nature of reality, there's simply a hard and fast limit to everything where unwanted side effects kick in, or the nature of the thing fundamentally changes.

 

"Happiness" is something you think you can never have enough of, but after a certain point it devolves into the aforementioned mania, which comes with a severe uncoupling from reality. Your brain can only process so much pleasure (or anything, really) before overloading.

 

"Tick! No! Don't! If you go in there we'll lapse into a coma of pure ecstasy from which we'll never awaken!" ~ The Tick's Mind

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It could be rephrased more accurately as: Is there anything, be it matter, energy or abstract, that can be increased infinitely and still has 0% chance to affect anything in any negative way?

 

 

Ohh, well if you can just rephrase the question then that sort of makes the entire discussion a moot point.

 

I mean, I can say "would you like me to give you a million dollars and be held to that with this legally binding contract here?"

 

But then I can subtly change it (rephrase, if you will) so that it becomes "Would you like to give me a million dollars and be held to that with this legally binding document here?"

 

Sure, the whole thing is totally different but if you've already come along and said yes and then I changed the wording, even slightly, because I didn't like the original result then I can hardly blame you for being a bit disappointed.

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...

Edit

I forgot to state that it must be in excess too. There are some things that you can increase infinitely but still not be in excess (like numbers).

 

D'oh, I was just thinking of numbers.

 

But to answer the question whether there's anything at all, be it abstract or real, that can't be used for evil, I'd have to with Alorael.

 

Hmm. Well, philosophical discussion in excess? It propably couldn't be used for evil? When a philosophical discussion is taken to an excess, all we reach is a nihilistic point where we can be certain only of the fact that the subject itself who thinks, exists. Cogito ergo sum. But everything else outside the said subject is not quaranteed to exist. Therefore only the subject is the only one that exists for sure, and the only ethics that apply are those invented by the subject; which means that there can be no evil or bad so long as the subject doesn't perform any such deeds.

 

Therefore, philosophical discussion in itself can not result in bad or evil; the humaine component is responsible for the evil, should (s)he choose to do so.

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Ohh, well if you can just rephrase the question then that sort of makes the entire discussion a moot point.

 

I mean, I can say "would you like me to give you a million dollars and be held to that with this legally binding contract here?"

 

But then I can subtly change it (rephrase, if you will) so that it becomes "Would you like to give me a million dollars and be held to that with this legally binding document here?"

 

Sure, the whole thing is totally different but if you've already come along and said yes and then I changed the wording, even slightly, because I didn't like the original result then I can hardly blame you for being a bit disappointed.

 

Thats why I put an apology there for not being very specific in stating the question. And I assure you that it wont be changed anymore because what I said when I rephrased it is what exactly Im thinking to begin with.

 

 

 

D'oh, I was just thinking of numbers.

 

But to answer the question whether there's anything at all, be it abstract or real, that can't be used for evil, I'd have to with Alorael.

 

Hmm. Well, philosophical discussion in excess? It propably couldn't be used for evil? When a philosophical discussion is taken to an excess, all we reach is a nihilistic point where we can be certain only of the fact that the subject itself who thinks, exists. Cogito ergo sum. But everything else outside the said subject is not quaranteed to exist. Therefore only the subject is the only one that exists for sure, and the only ethics that apply are those invented by the subject; which means that there can be no evil or bad so long as the subject doesn't perform any such deeds.

 

Therefore, philosophical discussion in itself can not result in bad or evil; the humaine component is responsible for the evil, should (s)he choose to do so.

 

I will just mention one of the many possible bad effect of excessive philosophical discussion. It will consume massive amounts of time tn the point the participants neglect to do other things.

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  • 4 weeks later...

It would consume massive amounts of time, yes, but it would be bad only in the case that something existed outside the aforementioned subject. If the world comprises of a person, whose existence is 100% certain, but nothing more, then everything, including the values of good and bad are dependable only on that existing person because nothing more can be, theoretically, proven to exist.

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I've worked in a restaurant for years and, let me assure you, it is indeed possible for an excess of ranch dressing to become a thing of nightmares. This video makes me want to crawl into the Mariana Trench and never rejoin ranch-loving human society

 

And so it came to pass that Galactic Maiden escaped the clutches of putrid mayonnaise, only to be greeted by an even greater horror: an orgy of foot-long shrimp.

 

_79828483_79828482.jpg

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And so it came to pass that Galactic Maiden escaped the clutches of putrid mayonnaise, only to be greeted by an even greater horror: an orgy of foot-long shrimp.

 

_79828483_79828482.jpg

 

Now thats something that cannot happen in excess. Orgies of feet long shrimp. Means more shrimp and they are a foot long. The perfect size! Unlike lobsters they taste good and are easier to season. i mean ecosystem balance fades in comparisson to the overly delicious shrimp only sometimes dwarved by the equally delicious squid.

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  • 3 weeks later...

 

 

Proverbs of Hell

In seed time learn, in harvest teach, in winter enjoy. 26 Drive your cart and your plough over the bones of the dead. 27 The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. 28 Prudence is a rich, ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. 29 He who desires but acts not, breeds pestilence. 30 The cut worm forgives the plough. 31 Dip him in the river who loves water. 32 A fool sees not the same tree that a wise man sees. 33 He whose face gives no light, shall never become a star. 34 Eternity is in love with the productions of time. 35 The busy bee has no time for sorrow. 36 The hours of folly are measur’d by the clock; but of wisdom, no clock can measure. 37 All wholesome food is caught without a net or a trap. 38 Bring out number, weight, and measure in a year of dearth. 39 No bird soars too high, if he soars with his own wings. 40 A dead body revenges not injuries. 41 The most sublime act is to set another before you. 42 If the fool would persist in his folly he would become wise. 43 Folly is the cloak of knavery. 44 Shame is Pride’s cloak. 45 Prisons are built with stones of Law, brothels with bricks of Religion. 46 The pride of the peacock is the glory of God. 47 The lust of the goat is the bounty of God. 48 The wrath of the lion is the wisdom of God. 49 The nakedness of woman is the work of God. 50 Excess of sorrow laughs. Excess of joy weeps. 51 The roaring of lions, the howling of wolves, the raging of the stormy sea, and the destructive sword are portions of eternity too great for the eye of man. 52 The fox condemns the trap, not himself. 53 Joys impregnate. Sorrows bring forth. 54 Let man wear the fell of the lion, woman the fleece of the sheep. 55 The bird a nest, the spider a web, man friendship. 56 The selfish, smiling fool, and the sullen, frowning fool shall be both thought wise, that they may be a rod. 57 What is now proved was once only imagin’d. 58 The rat, the mouse, the fox, the rabbit watch the roots; the lion, the tiger, the horse, the elephant watch the fruits. 59 The cistern contains: the fountain overflows. 60 One thought fills immensity. 61 Always be ready to speak your mind, and a base man will avoid you. 62 Everything possible to be believ’d is an image of truth. 63 The eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn of the crow. 64 The fox provides for himself; but God provides for the lion. 65 Think in the morning. Act in the noon. Eat in the evening. Sleep in the night. 66 He who has suffer’d you to impose on him, knows you. 67 As the plough follows words, so God rewards prayers. 68 The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction. 69 Expect poison from the standing water. 70 You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough. 71 Listen to the fool’s reproach! it is a kingly title! 72 The eyes of fire, the nostrils of air, the mouth of water, the beard of earth. 73 The weak in courage is strong in cunning. 74 The apple tree never asks the beech how he shall grow; nor the lion, the horse, how he shall take his prey. 75 The thankful receiver bears a plentiful harvest. 76 If others had not been foolish, we should be so. 77 The soul of sweet delight can never be defil’d. 78 When thou seest an eagle, thou seest a portion of Genius; lift up thy head! 79 As the caterpillar chooses the fairest leaves to lay her eggs on, so the priest lays his curse on the fairest joys. 80 To create a little flower is the labour of ages. 81 Damn braces. Bless relaxes. 82 The best wine is the oldest, the best water the newest. 83 Prayers plough not! Praises reap not! 84 Joys laugh not! Sorrows weep not! 85 The head Sublime, the heart Pathos, the genitals Beauty, the hands and feet Proportion. 86 As the air to a bird or the sea to a fish, so is contempt to the contemptible. 87 The crow wish’d everything was black, the owl that everything was white. 88 Exuberance is Beauty. 89 If the lion was advised by the fox, he would be cunning. 90 Improvement makes straight roads; but the crooked roads without improvement are roads of Genius. 91 Sooner murder an infant in its cradle than nurse unacted desires. 92 Where man is not, nature is barren. 93 Truth can never be told so as to be understood, and not be believ’d. 94 Enough! or Too much. 95

 

 

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