Kyshakk Koan Valdain the King Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I cant figure out how you possibly can beat one of these games. I am referring to first person perspective, turnbased rpg games with you and a party of 4-6. I have only beaten 1 of them and that is because I know the rules and am a junkie for those rules. Otherwise I will say I have had more success with turnbased tactical rpgs, roguelikes and regular rpgs. Regular rpgs would fall into top down rpgs like planescape, Icewind dale and Avernum. I dont consider 1st person games like dungeon crawlers to be rpgs. I consider them to be adventure games where you have to place more emphasis on finding openings/doors. I have played the following and they are just horrendously impossible to beat- Eye of the Beholder (2nd Edition-Stuck on Third level) Warriors of the Eternal Sun Gateway to the Savage Frontier (That and sequel are impossible and frustrating) Paper Sorcerer Swords and Sorcery Underworld Etrian Odyssey1-4 (All of them) Heroes of a broken land (This isnt rpg more strategy game) Elminage (This game claims to be 2ndedition but it gives no info on any of the stats) Thunderscape (Cant get past 1st area) Devil Whiskey (Same as Underworld) The ones I have played and had some success with were- Original Pool of Radiance (I am getting this soon on Nintendo WII) I beat Eye of the Beholder (Gbadvance-The 3rd edition game) Otherwise I have less luck than with games that are supposedly more difficult like Roguelikes and Tactical Rpgs. Is it because these games are harder by nature because If I am playing on easy with all of them maybe the developers didnt make their games right or rushed them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 What exactly do you normally have difficulty with? Is it the combat? Finding necessary locations or items? Resource management? Something else? I've played and enjoyed a number of the games on the list and didn't find them impossibly difficult: what is it about games like this in particular that's throwing you off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I dont consider 1st person games like dungeon crawlers to be rpgs. I consider them to be adventure games where you have to place more emphasis on finding openings/doors. I think that's a very strange statement. But your original edition EOB/original edition POOLRAD comparison makes it a little clearer. Those are two games with very similar mechanics, but a few key differences: - Pool lets you explore at your own pace. You can pretty much always leave to rest, buy more supplies, or go somewhere with weaker enemies. EOB does not give you those options. - While both games are turn-based, EOB does involve turns taken in real time. - Positional tactics in Pool are pretty obvious (characters on a grid) while in EOB it can be helpful to use the arrow keys not just for walkabout movement, but also to quickly dodge missiles and spells. - I don't think EOB has more secret doors than Pool does, but Pool has an overhead map that you can always access, which makes the doors less secret in many cases. - Pool also gives you pretty clear suggestions on where to go and what to do, while in EOB it's often something you have to figure out through exploration. Anyway, while I hear your frustration, it probably won't help anything for you to just decide you're going to use words differently than everyone else. Some of the games on your list are not only computer RPGs, they are classics of the genre! If I am playing on easy with all of them maybe the developers didnt make their games right or rushed them? Yes, if a game is not perfectly suited to your play preferences, it means the developers made the game wrong and/or rushed the game. There's definitely no possibility that either (1) it's just not up your alley, or (2) you aren't using the best tactics for that game. Clearly, an entire genre of game has been made wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Clearly, an entire genre of game has been made wrong... QFTClearly any game designer that doesn't think like I do in a game must be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Valdain the King Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 What exactly do you normally have difficulty with? Is it the combat? Finding necessary locations or items? Resource management? Something else? I've played and enjoyed a number of the games on the list and didn't find them impossibly difficult: what is it about games like this in particular that's throwing you off? The thing I have difficulty with is how I determine the threat of each enemy in the group. With Paper Sorcerer being most recent one, I am confused because I was fighting a lot of mages which normally at least usually are a large threat to a party with AOEs. In this game they became known to me where I figured OK, mages are to be taken care of ASAP. Then I got a bit further in the game and this one fighter in a group of 3 regular enemies kills 1 of my party members. I got confused as to how that happened when before the mage was the threat but now a regular soldier is? I dont know maybe the games are just not for me as you can see in the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 The thing I have difficulty with is how I determine the threat of each enemy in the group. With Paper Sorcerer being most recent one, I am confused because I was fighting a lot of mages which normally at least usually are a large threat to a party with AOEs. In this game they became known to me where I figured OK, mages are to be taken care of ASAP. Then I got a bit further in the game and this one fighter in a group of 3 regular enemies kills 1 of my party members. I got confused as to how that happened when before the mage was the threat but now a regular soldier is? I dont know maybe the games are just not for me as you can see in the list. While there are general patterns as to what potential threats to look out for, there's always going to be an element of trial and error involved when exploring new areas and encountering new enemies. And yes, that means sometimes you're going to get beaten up and have to either run home with your tail between your legs or reload a saved game until you feel out what's dangerous and what resources you have available to deal with those dangers. Sometimes you have to learn through failure and go back and try again with the new information you've gained -- they're not so different from roguelikes in that way. But if you've played a dozen different dungeon crawlers and either still can't get the hang of the style of play they require or don't find it fun then yeah, maybe they aren't for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Edgwyn Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 The ones that i have played are older than Valdain's list and I agree with Lilith's statement about trial and error. There are plenty of times that I retreated with only one or two out of six characters still alive because a rouge was much stronger than a thief or some other similar change because I was onto a new level with different enemies. It took my teenage self a much longer time to beat the games that I played back then versus my adult self playing Jeff's games. There are some that I never did finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Swimmin' Salmon Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 QFT Clearly any game designer that doesn't think like I do in a game must be wrong. And letting them know is the reason for internet. ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε and Sudanna 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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