Easygoing Eyebeast Triumph Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Spells change as one raises them from level 1 to level 3. What are the differences? Are there spells that are really worth upgrading and some that aren't worth upgrading? Mage Spells: Bolt of Fire 1: fire damage to one enemy 2: chance to also damage a foe adjacent to target 3: “15% bonus” to damage Call Beast 1: summon weak ally 10 turns 2: pet gets 7 turns of War Chant 3: pet gets Hasted 5 turns Cloak of Curses 1: gives party’s attacks chance of putting a curse on target 2: increases the chance of an attack giving a status effect 3: increases the chance of an attack giving a status effect Daze 1: daze area of enemies 3 turns (unable to move or attack) 2: also Ensnares enemies 3 turns 3: also stuns for 1 turn Haste 1: hastes party for 3 turns 2: adds “20% bonus” to how it lasts 3: 30% chance of getting Battle Frenzy for 2 rounds Slow 1: slow nearby foes for 3 turns 2: little or no effect 3: little or no effect Icy Rain 1: cold damage to area 2: “15% bonus” to damage 3: get 40% chance of immobilizing enemies for 3 turns Spray Acid 1: three turns of acid damage to one enemy 2: chance to also affect a foe adjacent to target 3: also inflicts Lightning status for 3 turns Cloak of Bolts 1: party’s missile weapons do more damage 2: increases the damage bonus 3: increases the damage bonus Minor Summon 1: summons stronger creature than Call Beast for 10 turns 2: pet gets War Chant 7 turns 3: pets gets Hasted for 5 turns Lightning Spray 1: energy damage cone attack 2: “20% bonus” to damage 3: 40% chance of also inflicting Weakness for 3 rounds Blink 1: ensnare nearby foes 2 turns, teleports caster to new location 2: adds War Curse for 3 turns 3: also Dazes nearby foes 2 turns Capture Soul 1: makes copy of target in a spirit prism to use for Simulacrum 2: increases the level of monsters you are able to capture 3: increases the level of monsters you are able to capture Simulacrum 1: summon copy stored via Capture Soul 2: pet gets War Chant 9 turns 3: pet gets Shield Chant for 5 turns Cloak of Blades 1: party’s melee attacks do more damage 2: increases damage bonus 3: increases damage bonus Dispel Barrier 1: dispels magic barriers 2: dispels more barriers 3: dispel even more barriers Summon Aid 1: summons more powerful creature than Minor Summon for 10 turns 2: pet gets War Chant 9 turns 3: pet Hasted for 7 turns Howl of Terror 1: nearby foes get Terrified for 3 turns 2: adds War Curse for 4 turns 3: also inflicts Slow for 4 turns Fire Blast 1: fire damage cone attack 2: “20% bonus” to damage 3: another 20% bonus to damage Arcane Summon 1: summon powerful creature for 10 turns 2: pet gets War Chant for 10 turns 3: pet gets Hasted for 7 turns Cloak of the Arcane 1: party’s spells are more effective 2: increases the damage bonus 3: increases the damage bonus Arcane Blow 1: energy damage cone attack 2: adds War Curse for 3 turns 3: adds Daze for 2 turns Priest Spells: Minor Heal 1: heal one character 2: “10% bonus” to healing 3: give Regenerate for 3 turns Curing 1: cure one non-mental hostile effect 2: cures 2 effects instead of 1 3: cures 3 effects instead of 2 Smite 1: energy damage to one enemy 2: “20% bonus” to damage 3: 30% chance of inflict War Curse for 2 turns Protection 1: shields party for 4 turns (less likely to get hit, takes less damage if hit) 2: “20% bonus” (to what?) 3:50% chance of giving Regeneration for 2 turns War Blessing 1: makes party more likely to hit, do more damage when they hit, for 4 turns 2: “20% bonus” to ??? 3: 50% chance of giving Regeneration for 2 turns Call the Storm 1: cold damage cone attack, pushes back enemies, & has chance of inflicting 3-turn Weakness curse 2: no special bonus 3: 20% damage bonus Summon Shade 1: summons Greater Shade for 10 turns 2: pet gets Shield Chant 9 turns 3: pet gets Spine Shield for 5 turns Ward of Thoughts 1: improves chance of resisting mental attacks 2: Ward at level 2 3: Ward at level 3 Move Mountains 1: in town mode, destroy fragiles walls / rocks; in combat, does physical damage area attack (based on Dexterity, not Int like all other spells) 2: in town mode, destroys more rocks; in combat, does more damage 3: in town mode, destroy even MORE rocks; in combat, ??? Unshackle Mind 1: cures 1 mental effect on an ally 2: cures 2 mental effects 3: cures 3 mental effects Heal 1: heals more damage than Minor Heal on one character 2: “10% bonus” to healing 3: gives Regeneration for 3 turns Mass Healing 1: same as Heal, but affects whole party 2: “10% bonus” to healing 3: 50% chance of giving someone Regeneration for 2 turns Mass Curing 1: same as Curing but affects whole party 2: curse 2 hostile effects 3: cures 3 hostile effects Ward of Steel 1: boosts party’s resistance to physical attacks and acid 20% 2: further reduces damage taken 25% 3: further reduces damage taken 30% Divine Fire 1: fire damage area attack 2: “20% bonus” to damage 3: additional 20% bonus to damage Domination 1: charm target 3 turns 2: “20% bonus” 3: additional 20% bonus (perhaps to duration? Uncertain.) Sanctification Ritual 1: in town mode, destroys dark altars; in combat, heals and cures party 2: in combat, also cures 1 mental effect and gives 2 turns of War Chant 3: in combat, heals more and adds Haste for 2 turns Ward of Elements 1: boosts party’s magic / cold / fire resistance 20% 2: further reduces damage taken 25% 3: further reduces damage taken 30% Return Life 1: revives unconscious party member 2: same 3: same Divine Retribution 1: energy damage to nearby enemies 2: Slows nearby enemies 3 turns 3: also Stuns for 1 turn Divine Restoration 1: heals party a lot 2: also cures 1 hostile 3: 15% bonus to healing Divine Host 1: summon Vengeful Shade for 10 turns (this the same creature Summon Shade makes, just at a higher level) 2: pet gets Hasted 9 turns 3: pet gets Spine Shield for 5 turns Tyranicus, TrueAlcove, Callie and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mechalibur Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Cloak of Curses - Each level supposedly increases the chance of an attack giving a status effect Daze 3 - Stun for one turn Haste 3 - 30% chance of Battle Frenzy (2 rounds). Also as an aside, 20% bonus refers to how long it lasts, which isn't really clear to new players. Slow 3 - No idea Icy Rain 3 - Immobilize for 3 turns (40% chance) Acid Splash 3 - Lightning for 3 turns Cloak of Bolts - Each level increases the ranged damage bonus Minor Summon 3 - Hasted for 5 rounds Lightning Spray 3 - Weakness Curse for 3 rounds (40% chance) Blink 3 - Daze nearby foes for 2 turns Capture Soul - Each level increases which monsters you're able to capture Simulacrum 3 - Shield Chant for 5 turns Cloak of Blades - Each level increases melee damage further Dispel Barrier 3 - You can dispel sparkling barriers (not the red ones, but the blue ones that sparkle) Summon Aid 3 - Hasted for 7 turns Howl of Terror 3 - Slow for 4 turns Fireblast 3 - Add further 20% bonus Arcane Summon 3 - Haste for 7 turns Cloak of the Arcane - Each level increases the spell damage bonus Arcane Blow 3 - Daze for 2 turns Minor Heal 3 - Gives regenerate for 3 turns Curing 3 - Cures 3 effects Smite 3 - 30% chance of War Curse for 2 turns Protection 3- 50% chance of regeneration for 2 turns War Blessing 3 - 50% chance of spine shield for 2 turns Call the Storm 3 - 40% chance of Weakness curse for 3 turns Summon Shade 3 - Spine Shield for 5 turns Ward of Thoughts - Each level increases mental resist bonus Move mountains - Not stated, but some rocks require higher levels of this spell to be broken Heal 3 - Regeneration for 3 turns Mass Healing 3 - Regeneration for 2 turns (50% chance) Mass Curing 3 - Cures 3 Effects Ward of Steel - Each level further reduces physical and acid damage taken Divine Fire 3 - Adds further 20% bonus Domination 3 - Adds further 20% bonus (presumably to duration) Ward of Elements - Each level further reduces magic/fire/cold damage taken Return Life - Not stated, but I think each level increases the number of people revived (1, 2, or 3) Divine Retribution 3 - Stun for 1 turn Divine Restoration 3 - 15% bonus Divine Host - Never got enough priest points for this. I'm assuming Spine shield for 7 turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mechalibur Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Okay, just got a bunch of wisdom crystals from Patrick's Tower and leveled my priest to 35 so he could get Divine Host. It's actually Spine Shield for 5 turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish Hawat Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Does anyone know whether Vengeful Shade differs from Greater Shade in any way other than creature level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Davies Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Return Life - Not stated, but I think each level increases the number of people revived (1, 2, or 3) I have just now confirmed this to be untrue. Each casting revives one and only one party member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 "More damage" is not actually a spell level difference per se. The change you see is simply due to the fact that the damage formula for all attacks takes skill level for that attack into account (as 1 level of damage each, aka 1 die of damage). The actual damage differences are always displayed as "20% more damage" line (or whatever phrasing it uses)*. *It's possible to do this differently -- I used different ranges for different levels in my AEFTP remix -- but Jeff avoids it, which is good, because you can see the difference clearly from the spell description. Hawat and TrueAlcove 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Does anyone know whether Vengeful Shade differs from Greater Shade in any way other than creature level? It is identical, except for the level. (And the name and its tinting.) Hawat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Triumph Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Much thanks! I have updated the list! Please let me know if there's something I missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mechalibur Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Protection is still unlisted for level 3 (50% chance of Regeneration for 2 turns). Just to be specific, I would also recommend updating the description of ward of elements to magic, fire, and cold resist, instead of just magic. Anyone have any idea about what changes for Slow/Return Life, if anything? Triumph 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Slow appears to have a very minor invisible bonus to either its success rate or duration (not sure which) per spell level (maybe not worth putting that on the chart, some other spells have the same invisible minor bonus). At level 3 it looks like it should have a small chance of stunning (exact same effect as Divine Retribution level 3). It doesn't have a real "upgrade" at level 2 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Return Life looks like it may have been meant to have the same upgrades as Divine Restoration, but they don't apply to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mechalibur Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The editor doesn't seem to be able to change spell levels, so I can't really do much testing, but I think it's likely one of the slow levels increases duration. The description says 3 rounds, but my mage was always getting 6-7 rounds of it, which my blessings equipment could not solely account for. Level 3 doesn't seem to have any stun added. I cast it around 20 times, with no stuns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The editor can toggle purchased spell levels, just not spellbook ones. That's not evidence for a duration increase, unfortunately; there is a large random factor if you have bonuses to duration, so between Spellcraft and blessings equipment, those high levels are not unlikely. See for yourself -- compare its typical duration with that of other buffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mechalibur Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The duration is always within a certain boundary though (6-7 turns in my case). If that boundary changes after purchasing a new spell level, then it would be evidence of a duration increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 If you test enough you'll see there's more variation than that. (Alternately, supply all relevant stats, traits, and equipment and let's check it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Soul of Wit Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I always thought that higher levels of Return Life gave the revived character more health. Can anyone confirm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mechalibur Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 If you test enough you'll see there's more variation than that. (Alternately, supply all relevant stats, traits, and equipment and let's check it.) I did it 20 times against 5-6 enemies each time (so over 100 individual slowed enemies). All of them were 6-7 rounds, so if changing the spell level increases that, then it should be safe to say there's a duration increase. I think I'll use the editor to give one of my characters mage spells and see if changing levels of slow has any effect on the maximum rounds of slow from levels 1-3. I'll post my finding tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Juan Carlo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 My level 2 slow seems to occasionally curse enemies if it doesn't slow them (I think war curse if I remember correctly). Maybe that's not a level 2 perk, though. I think I bought 2 levels at once, so I have no experience with level 1. Maybe it's in my head, but it seems to mostly happen with boss fights (Which is the only time I use it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mechalibur Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 My level 2 slow seems to occasionally curse enemies if it doesn't slow them (I think war curse if I remember correctly). Maybe that's not a level 2 perk, though. I think I bought 2 levels at once, so I have no experience with level 1. Maybe it's in my head, but it seems to mostly happen with boss fights (Which is the only time I use it). If an enemy is immune to a debuff, then the game gives them an alternate debuff. For example, if an enemy immune to daze if affected by a daze ability, they're poisoned instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mechalibur Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Okay, I did some testing with slow. Results were interesting, but not entirely conclusive. Method: Used the editor to give my warrior 10 points in mage spells, then unequipped all of her gear. Unfortunately, she has 1 rank in spellcraft from the drake which the editor cannot remove. Because I got the slow spellbook, she started with 1 rank in slow. I then went outside the Tower of Magi, and would enter and re-exit until there was a group of ogres to the NW. The group contained 5-7 ogres and an ogre mage. To make sure the testing was only against one enemy type, the ogre mage was killed off right away. I got a bit over 100 slows, and recording how many turns they lasted. Then I went back to the Tower, bought a level in slow, and repeated the process for levels 2 and 3 of slow. In addition, I decided to test haste at levels 1 and 2 with the same character since it has the same number of turns listed (3) and would show the results of a 20% bonus from the level 2 increase. Results: Level 1 Slow: 0 turns ("Ogre resists the attempt to slow it): 1 1 turns: 5 2 turns: 29 3 turns: 53 4 turns: 18 5 turns: 0 Total slows: 106 Average: 2.77 turns Level 2 Slow 0 turns: 0 1 turn: 1 2 turns: 12 3 turns: 55 4 turns: 34 5 turns: 3 Total slows:105 Average turns: 3.25 Level 3 slow 0 turns: 1 1 turn: 1 2 turns: 20 3 turns: 54 4 turns: 31 5 turns: 4 Total slows: 111 Average turns: 3.12 Haste level 1: 3 turns: 48 4 turns: 51 5 turns: 1 Average: 3.53 turns Haste level 2 3 turns: 18 4 turns: 29 5 turns: 22 6 turns: 11 7 turns: 2 8 turns: 2 Average: 4.47 turns Analysis: Results weren't thorough enough for any definite conclusions, but the data suggest that enemies roll to resist each turn of slow individually (that's why in over 300 attempts, there were only 2 ogres that resisted the slow). It would also account for why sometimes slow lasts a shorter amount of time than the listed duration (3 turns). It's possible that slow has a duration increase at level 2 (I would imagine 20% to match haste), but absolutely no further effects were observed at level 3. This could probably use more testing, though, to make sure, with more data collected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The fact that level 3 slow on average lasted less time than level 2 slow suggests pretty strongly that, if a difference exists (and I agree there may be one), it is too subtle for 100 tests to demonstrate effectively. That contradiction also means that the data above, in total, do not support a hypothesis of +20% bonus at level 2. They do though suggest a relatively straightforward interpretation of the scripts: that slow and haste (among other spells) are set up so that each point *in the spell itself* adds 5% to duration. (Note: not the BF part of haste lv 3.) Since duration doesn't vary individually at level 1 with no bonuses I suspect this is points beyond 1. I would guess this works parallel to damage % bonuses and stacks additively with others. Thus, level 3 haste with +10% from items and traits and +20% from spellcraft, plus that extra 20% bonus (which is separate from what we're talking about above) would last for 160% the standard haste duration on average, or 4.8 turns. (And yeah, that 1 pt of Spellcraft is enough to add a whole extra die roll to the equation, so if you do any further tests I recommend using Edit Party to get a cleaner test candidate. Actually you might need a new game -- there are a few Special Items that have Spellcraft-like effects, too, and those track for the party!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mechalibur Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It doesn't contradict my hypothesis either. It's just not enough data to support the claim. But yeah, this was largely just to see if there were any evident abnormalities. It did help me get an idea of how enemy resistance works. I would need an entirely new game for extensive testing (and maybe more free time ), because I can't get rid of that pesky level of spellcraft. It is also possible that the duration is affected by ranks in mage skills, which could further throw things off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It doesn't disprove your hypothesis, but the data doesn't fit your hypothesis well, so it isn't neutral towards it either. (Unless your suggestion was that level 2 and 3 get the same 20% bonus, but that isn't borne out by the scripts.) Sorry to argue; but glad you are testing and asking questions (and arguing!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mechalibur Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Unless your suggestion was that level 2 and 3 get the same 20% bonus That's what I was thinking, yes. Either way, I think we can agree that levelling up slow really doesn't matter that much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 WARD OF STEEL Lv1 - 20% armor + acid resistance Lv2 - 25% Lv3 - WARD OF ELEMENTS Lv1 - 20% magic, fire + ice resistance Lv2 - 25% Lv3 - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I just tested level 3 Ward of Elements and it took a character from 60% cold resistance to 72%, so as you might expect it seems to be a 30% resistance bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Triumph Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Cool! I assume all the wards will work the same way, and have updated them accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I would *not* assume that Ward of Thoughts works the same way. It definitely does not increase displayed mental resistance. It's possible it increases your ability to dodge mental attacks, or it's possible that there is a separate check where it does something. But we don't know what, or at what rate. It might even be a higher rate. Triumph 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Waladil Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 From the text of Ward of Thoughts what I'd hypothesize it does is lets you roll to resist mental effects twice (with who knows what bonii at higher levels) and you only need to succeed once to resist the effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Call the Storm does not have an increased chance to inflict weakness at any level. Triumph 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Triumph Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Huh...you're right. And...it looks like level 3 gives a 20% damage bonus...but I can't tell that raising CtS to level makes any meaningful difference. Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Triumph Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Also, I tested Return Life at levels 1, 2, and 3, and confirmed that there's no apparent difference in the effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 There is no specific bonus attached to level 2, but again, all spells do receive a very small increase with each spell level. I would just say "no special bonus" for those levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Also, I tested Return Life at levels 1, 2, and 3, and confirmed that there's no apparent difference in the effect. Now that all the alternate forms of death have been eliminated there is really no more point in having three levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Also, level 1 of call the storm should probably mention its pushback effect, which is unique and probably the best and most abusable thing about the spell. 2 priests with 2 call the storms opens up all kinds of tactical options right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Also, level 1 of call the storm should probably mention its pushback effect, which is unique and probably the best and most abusable thing about the spell. 2 priests with 2 call the storms opens up all kinds of tactical options right away. It's one of the few absolutely reliable effects in the game, too: the knockback works even if the spell misses. Mea Tulpa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Xander77 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 There are certain comments made when destroying altars with the sanctification ritual that imply the level of the spell has to do with the success / failure versus particularly strong altars. True/false? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 There are certain comments made when destroying altars with the sanctification ritual that imply the level of the spell has to do with the success / failure versus particularly strong altars. True/false? I can't say for sure that there aren't any altars that require a specific level of Ritual of Sanctification above 1, but I can say I've played through the whole game and looked through the scripts a fair bit and haven't seen any evidence of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Sanctification is a pretty great combat spell in some circumstances, so you may as well upgrade it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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