kuo Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I'm kinda lost on how to do this. I'm trying to beat this game on Torment using a Blademaster PC along with Yoshiria and Alcander. The Strategy Central guide doesn't really tell me anything about class skill building. Characters are all Lv20. Tristram has every point pumped into Strength. (28) 2 Points in Middle Column 8 Melee Training, 6 Archery Training. 8, 6, and 1 in the center column, from bottom to top, not counting the 2 specialization points. 7 points in second wind. He can do some pretty big damage, but a lot of the bosses like to knock him back, immobilize him, and then two shot him. Yoshiria has everything in Dexterity (29) 2 Points in Middle Column, again. 7 in both Blade and Razordisk Training, 7, 3, 3 in Middle column without specialization bonus, and 3 points in Recovery and Shadowstep, 1 point in Shadowwalker Focus. Needless to say, she has less health and gets beat up even faster than Tristram. At least Alcander can summon his turrets and then get the hell out of there, assuming he isn't killed first either...I must have spent two hours on that Hundred Claws fight. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springacres Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I'm playing a BM on Normal atm, but for my magic type characters I try to balance out Str, Dex and End, with a bit of Int to ward off mental attacks. I also build up all base skills to level 7 or 8 before starting on any secondary skills. Magic classes I go more Int/End with a bit less Dex and just enough Str so they don't get too encumbered. After that, I usually build according to what skill set I find most useful most of the time. So for a blademaster PC I'd do a left/middle column build for him, probably left/middle for Yoshiria, and right or right/middle for everyone else. (For classes with the Lockpick skill, I also max that out very early on to minimize lockpick use.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 For a melee blademaster, probably the best build is to have an equal mix of Strength and Endurance, and beeline ASAP for the upgraded top-right column skill, Call of the Frenzy. It allows you to grant the Battle Frenzy status to all allies (including turrets!), letting them make two attacks per round -- it's an incredible force multiplier effect for your entire party. Yoshiria should actually do pretty well with that build as long as you keep her away from attackers. Keep in mind that Shadowwalkers can wear heavy armour, and by that level should have gained enough Strength from automatic levelup bonuses to wear it without much of a penalty (unequip your melee weapon if you need some extra weight capacity; it's not like it's much use on a Dex-based character anyway). Between that and plenty of ranks in Earth Discipline, she can have decent survivability even with minimal Endurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerakeen Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 (edited) On Torment you do have to put some stat points into endurance or you'll keep dying. For a melee Blademaster, I make a beeline for the top right - he has some of the best buffs in the game. Don't bother raising them above 6, though. Max out the center column, and you can pretty much ignore the left column except for melee. For a missile Shadowwalker, I raise shadowstep to level 3, max out the center column, and then concentrate on the left. ETA: A tinkermage's turrets are not dependent on any stat, so you can give Alcander lots of endurance. Kind of a good idea, since you want him to stay conscious. If you give him some strength, he can wear decent armor too. Edited December 30, 2013 by Jerakeen sniped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuo Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 Thanks for the great advice guys. I'm having a lot easier time now, looks like survivability is a lot better than damage output in Torment. Final stats for anyone that come across this thread. Tristram, Level 22 22 (+4), 9, 8, 18 Left - 6 Center - 6, 1, 1 Right - 6, 6, 6, 6 (Blademaster? More like Devilmaster huehuehue) Yoshiria, Level 22 10 (+1), 31 (+2), 9 (+1), 9 Left - 8 Center - 8, 8, 5 Right - 6, 3 Alcander, Level 22 9 (+1), 9 (+1), 9 (+1), 30 Left - 5, 1, 1 Middle - 4 (+2), 5 (+2), 5 Right - 5 (+2), 4 (+2), 2 (+2), 1 (+1) Stats are listed in Str, Dex, Int, End. Skills are in the format "Column - Bottom Skill, Higher Skill, etc." Boosted stats are formatted "Stat without Item Boost (+ Item Boost)". Middle column specializations all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomizer Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Raising an attacking skill from 6 to 8 significantly increases damage since starting at level 7 the skill does 4 levels of damage instead of 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerakeen Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I would probably give Yoshiria a bit more endurance, and Alcander a bit less, but otherwise that looks really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuo Posted December 31, 2013 Author Share Posted December 31, 2013 Aw. Then I can't do crazy damage when I give Yoshiria all of the cone attack scarabs. What should I put Alcander's extra points into? He has a lot of skill points that benefit melee, so I guess Strength - but I don't want him to die off in an important battle. Raising an attacking skill from 6 to 8 significantly increases damage since starting at level 7 the skill does 4 levels of damage instead of 1. Time to get those last two points for Tristram then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerakeen Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 A 1:1 ratio of endurance to strength or dex should be plenty, but whatever you're comfortable with. Alcander is decent in melee with enough strength, but he has good missile-based skills too, so dex is a reasonable option, especially since it helps with evasion. Of course, it's not possible to unlock Caustic Grenade without sacrificing some turret skill, and Charged Shot and Netshot are both kind of underwhelming. But the vanilla razordisk attack is pretty good on its own, plus it keeps him somewhat out of the scrum. And Yankshot can be pretty useful for dragging those pesky casters into range, whether you choose strength or dex, but I assume the accuracy would be better with the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomizer Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 The tinkermages's higher tier attacks are pretty poor even when you concentrate on dexterity. You are better off building up the center column to 8 to raise turret craft and the right column to get a range of turret types. Give Alcander the support scarabs like healing and curing since he won't hit much with his current stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerakeen Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 The tinkermages's higher tier attacks are pretty poor even when you concentrate on dexterity. I dispute this. Caustic Grenade damage can range above 400, plus corruption. It's just that with a 13-turn cooldown, it doesn't compete with the damage output of an offensive turret. You are better off building up the center column to 8 to raise turret craft and the right column to get a range of turret types. Can't dispute this, just don't bother raising any turret skills above 6. Higher levels don't have any effect on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomizer Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 While Caustic Grenade can do over 400 damage, the amount that penetrates into monsters is 50-60 at that point in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerakeen Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Hm, I did better than that, but it was on Normal. I haven't unlocked it on Torment yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuo Posted December 31, 2013 Author Share Posted December 31, 2013 While I'm leaning more towards Strength at the moment (so I can put heavier armor on Alcander), it it possible to raise the armor stat (or any stat for that matter) over 100%? I think with a combination of the center column and heavy armor, it would add up to be more. Although I'm neglecting Dexterity, I can't live without Yankshot. Lets me get in so many more attacks with melee NPCs and pets. Decisions decisions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 While I'm leaning more towards Strength at the moment (so I can put heavier armor on Alcander), it it possible to raise the armor stat (or any stat for that matter) over 100%? I think with a combination of the center column and heavy armor, it would add up to be more. Nope. Armour is multiplicative, not additive: for example, if you wear two pieces of armour with 50% protection each, then your total armour will be 75% (because each one blocks half the damage you take). Also, there's a hard cap of 90% on all resistances, so you can't go higher than that in any case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuo Posted December 31, 2013 Author Share Posted December 31, 2013 Does the character stats page reflect the true damage reduction then, incorporating all skills and armor combined? I've also noticed that weapons/armor bonuses that give "X% extra melee/ranged damage" don't get reflected in the weapon tool tip. Or is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerakeen Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Not sure about your first question, but to your second, that's correct. Damage bonuses don't show up in the damage range tool-tip, but they definitely do apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomizer Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 The stat page shows the maximum true damage reduction since Jeff does a calculation to see if each 1% damage reduction occurs. But the actual damage reduction is close to that value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punctuation rains from the heavens Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Actually the calculation is a little different than that; the maximum damage reduction in a single instance can go significantly above the listed number and even reach 100% in some cases. I would think of the number listed as your average or typical damage reduction, not your maximum. Re the "is the list number accurate question", it is in Avadon 2 and in all SW games since (I *think*) A5. Previous to that it just added up all damage reduction components, even though the actual mechanics still used multiplication, so it displayed a greatly inflated number most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuo Posted January 1, 2014 Author Share Posted January 1, 2014 On another question regarding percentages, when I have damage, dodge, or some other boost, are the percentages added up and then multiplied with damage, or are they compounded? Or is it that each percentage is tested or something complicated like that? Like lets say I have a +10% and a +5% melee damage. I do 100 base. If it was just +15%, I would do 115, but it it was compounded I would do 115.5. (110*1.05) Just wondering if it's more worthwhile to pile all boosts on one character, or if they start becoming obsolete at some point. This is because Yoshiria already has 37 dexterity at this point, as well as... Spidersilk Tunic (25% dodge) Sheltering Buckler (25% dodge, 5% enchantment, wonder if these are added up as well?) Smoky Greaves (20% dodge, 5% enchantment) Shadow Mask (20% dodge) I could also give her a 20% dodge cloak and sacrifice her Sharpshooter's Mantle (+10% missile dmg), but I'm wondering if it's worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springacres Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I spread them out, just so that if one character gets knocked out in a fight, there are others in my party still carrying boosts. Besides, with the runestones that give boosts, you can only apply one per piece of armor/equipment, and one character can only wear so many pieces of armor or equipment. Plus, you probably don't want to give a magic damage boost to a shadowwalker or blademaster, just like a melee damage boost would be useless to a sorcerer or shaman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 On another question regarding percentages, when I have damage, dodge, or some other boost, are the percentages added up and then multiplied with damage, or are they compounded? Or is it that each percentage is tested or something complicated like that? Like lets say I have a +10% and a +5% melee damage. I do 100 base. If it was just +15%, I would do 115, but it it was compounded I would do 115.5. (110*1.05) I don't know if this has been 100% confirmed, but the consensus on damage bonuses is that they're probably all added together first and then multiplied with damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punctuation rains from the heavens Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Regular damage bonuses (and penalties) are all added together first. Jeff confirmed this. You can see this most clearly in AEFTP, where the Dual Wielding damage penalty makes it easy to compare. Note: I believe critical hit damage is dealt with after regular damage is calculated, and is therefore a separate multiplication. Evasion bonuses (and to-hit bonuses) are all added together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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