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Which Options Matter (super-spoilerific)


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Inspired by Lillith's general description of what matters in the game, I did an extensive check of which conversation options set flags that matter for endgame (or other) purposes.

 

I can't immediately see which flags are needed to give different text endings at the very end of the game, or else I'd report that, too. Anyone know how to tell this?

 

The following is what I found (and, interestingly, it is true that pretty much nothing else has consequences down the line — notably, I think that this means that you can report on everyone to Callan):

 

AVADON’S STRENGTH

The game counts how many of the following 9 things you’ve done:

 

 

Saved Fort Foresight — associated with flag (16,66) >= 3

If you send at least 3 of your companion hands upstairs for the endgame, instead of bringing them with you to Redbeard, then you save Fort Foresight.

 

Killed at least 2 of 3 optional enemies — flags (12,13), (13,12), and (20,23)

Kill at least two of the following: Krymhylas, Wind Lord, in Monitor Base D; Vardegras in Stagnant Waters; Gryfyn in Fort Rockfall.

 

Recovered at least two honor tokens — (0,40) >= 2

The honor tokens are located in (according to Randomizer):

Avadon's Tower of Trials, if you complete them in time allowed; otherwise the chest is empty

Ogre's Thicket on the west side, after Hundred Claws is dead

Stagnant Waters, after seeing Vardegras

Rockfall Canyon, after talking to Hand

 

Dealt with Chabon — (1,23)

You have to get all the way to the bottom of the dungeons and defeat Chabon.

 

Done both Callan quests — (0,29) >= 4

Do a favor for Councilor Tan, and talk with Councilor Philana (even though Philana refuses to advocate for Avadon). Report back in both cases, including the failure with Philana.

 

Done both Laria quests — (0,47) >= 4

Get volunteers from the dungeons to test the defenses, and get the satchel of tools from Fort Foresight. Report back to Laria in both cases.

 

Complete the Eye Dymas quest — (4,22) >= 6

Either kill Eye Dymas or save her. Report back to Esmee, either way.

 

Returned enough Jazlyn papers — (16,29) >= 10

Give Eye Jazlyn (in Fort Foresight) at least 10 total Pact Papers and/or arcane notes (in whatever combination, e.g., 4 Pact Papers and 6 arcane notes).

 

Done Yatsua, Deniz, and Monitor Sabre quests — (4,21) >= 6 and (4,29) >= 6 and (10,27) >= 6)

For Yatsua, follow the quest line until you drive off Drake Khremess. For Deniz, follow the quest line until you kill the mercenaries in the Riverlands. (Both Yatsua and Deniz are in Rockridge Keep, and you must report back to them for completion.) For Monitor Sabre, follow the quest line until you kill horrors to the west of Monitor Base C, and report back to him.

 

These are summed in flag (100,24).

 

 

If you’ve done at least 2 of the 9, you can become an Eye. If you’ve done at least 5 of the 9, you can become a Heart. These are the only things that influence this.

 

[EDIT: With two exceptions! Apparently — "in main code," according to script comments — you lose a point for betraying Odil in the Titan Lands (for Silke or otherwise) and you lose a point for bringing enough arcane notes and Pact records (12 total, of either) to Cybele to get a halberd from her, if you actually ask her for the extra reward and get the halberd. (That is, it's getting the halberd, not bringing the notes and records that gives you the demerit.)]

 

SILKE/RAINER

The flag (100,18) tracks your relationship with the scout, and it must be less than 3 (heh, <3) to reach a successful culmination. The counter tracks how many times (and how badly) you’ve upset the scout.

 

As far as I can tell, nothing before the Ogre Thicket matters for the counter. You can be as friendly or as rude as you want in the early game and none of it matters. The following options in the Ogre Thicket matter:

 

 

When you encounter the scout and have established that you’re from Avadon: “How did you come to be here? Alone in enemy lands, and not at Rockridge Keep?” (Increases the counter by 1. There’s a less skeptical option.)

 

When the scout admits to deserting: “It was wrong to desert, but I respect your reasons.” (Increases the counter by 1.) Also, “Return to duty. Until you do, I will have nothing to do with you.” (This specific option kills the romance instantly and permanently by raising the flag to 10.)

 

When the scout asks for the satchel: “If I find the satchel, I will consider giving it to you.” (Increases the counter by 1.) Also, “I make no promises, about anything. Now tell me what you know. Now.” (Increases the counter by 2.)

 

After the scout has told you about Hundred Claws: “It was good to see you, though I am disappointed in you.” (Increases the counter by 1.) Also, “I have nothing else to say to you, deserter.” (Increases the counter by 2.)

 

When you have the satchel: "I want to know how my trainer turned out to be a dirty traitor." (Increases the counter by 1.)

 

In response to “So what will you do now?”:

• “I am still on your side, [C], but I can’t let you have the satchel.” (Increases the counter by 2.)

• “In the name of Avadon and the Pact, [C], I sentence you to die.” (Increases the counter by 10.) Entertainingly, though, the preface to this — “You have betrayed the Pact. You need to die.” — doesn’t seem to have any impact whatsoever if you back off.

• “I'm keeping the satchel. I am going to let you run, but if I see you again, you will die.” (Increases the counter by 10.)

• “I will help you however I can. (Give [C] the satchel.)” (Decreases the counter by 1.)

 

At the end of this conversation, if you tell the scout to wait and ask, “Will I see you again?”, you can verify that you’re still below 3. The scout will reply, “And, to be honest, I hope we do meet again,” if the counter is below 3. Otherwise, the scout will reply, “Yet, to be honest, I hope we do not.”

 

The next time you see the scout is in the Titan Lands. I think — although I can’t find this easily in the scripts — that if you get the counter to 10 (e.g., by threatening to kill the scout in the Ogre Thicket), there is no additional dialogue in Titan Lands. The scout simply does not appear. Otherwise, though, you get one more chance to influence the counter:

 

In Titan Lands, when you encounter the scout and are told that the scout has joined the rebels: “So now you are fully a traitor.” (Increases the counter by 1.)

 

In addition to keeping the counter below 3, you must also follow a specific path in the Titan Lands.

 

 

You must tell the scout that you agree to help the rebels (doesn’t matter why — tracked by flag (9,21), where 1 means loyal and 2 means rebel), and you must actually help the rebels (turning traitor in front of Odil, tracked by flag (9,24), same values as (9,21)).

 

Then, after you’ve succeeded, you must go to the scout. Any of the following conversation options will preclude the kiss:

“It is what you deserve for being a traitor.”

“Well, I wish you luck finding someone.”

“Me too. I need a friend. A good friend.”

“(Back away.)”

 

Anything else allows you to get a kiss. The core flag appears to be (9,38), which you want to avoid getting to 1 (no kiss) or 4 (kiss, but then you tell the scout you regret it). You want it to go to 2 and then 3.

 

 

There are frankly quite a lot of other flags involved in certain options in the final dialogue, and I can’t tell what all of them are doing. Nothing of significance, I think, but there may be something else going on here.

 

DHELESS

If you helped Konstina against Odil, you can also side with Dheless in Fort Rockfall. The following describes the exact steps:

 

 

When you first approach Dheless, you cannot say, “I have come to kill you.”

 

Then, when Dheless asks whether what he wants (freedom for Farlanders) is possible, you must answer: “It is possible, and I would help to bring it about.”

 

Next, when he asks how sincere you are, you must say: “I will do what I can to help you.”

 

Finally, when he asks whether you will oppose the Keeper, you must say EITHER: “Redbeard terrifies me, but I will oppose him if I need to.” OR: “Redbeard needs to be replaced. I want to be the one to do it.” (At this point, you have set flag (100,22) to 1, which tells the game that you’re part of the rebellion.)

 

When you confront Dheless again in the Temple of Nolus, and Dheless asks you what you will do, right after you say, “I have made my decision,” you must say: “I will kill Redbeard.” Then you must say, “I so swear.” The hero or villain question doesn’t matter, and you get special item 6 as a reward for swearing to Dheless.

 

 

PROTUS

Protus also works on a counter, which you have to get to at least 3 in order to get his help to defeat Redbeard. It’s (0,16). The following options change the counter:

 

 

When you first meet Protus, say, “A Heart? How interesting! What is that?” (Increases the counter by 1.)

 

Later in the same conversation, saying, “You are definitely important enough to hear what I have to say. (Give report.)” (Increases the counter by 1.)

 

After a few missions, ask what the papers are for, and when Protus talks about Redbeard’s disorganized tendencies, say, “So without you, Redbeard would be lost and Avadon in chaos.” (Increases the counter by 1.)

 

When you return from working for Redbeard early in the game and Protus asks you about him, “He seems alert, engaged, and a model Keeper.” (Decreases the counter by 1.)

Alternatively, “He is increasingly tired and confused.” (Increases the counter by 2.)

 

Helping Odil against Konstina. (Increases the counter by 1.)

Betraying Odil. (Decreases the counter by 1.)

 

When you return from working for Redbeard in Tawon and are about to be sent into the Corruption Core, and Protus asks you about Redbeard, “Redbeard is as competent as could be desired, and I would never question him.” (Decrease counter by 1.)

Alternatively, “Redbeard seems more exhausted and erratic every time I see him.” (Increases counter by 2.)

 

Give Protus the traitorous papers you found in his office. (Increases the counter by 2.)

Tell him you will hang onto the papers. (Decreases the counter by 1.)

Tell him that you’ll give them to Redbeard. (Decreases the counter by 6. This immediately and permanently ends your chances of getting Protus’s help.)

 

 

You can verify the value of the counter by asking Protus, “And what do you think of Redbeard?” If he says Redbeard is the best, then the counter is less than 4. Otherwise, he’ll say something critical. Also, there are a bunch of other places throughout the dialogues where you get different responses (and occasionally greater cash rewards) if Protus likes you, too.

 

Ultimately, the payoff is right before the endgame, when Protus asks you what you think of Redbeard being outside of Avadon. You have to say, “I think that he should be removed from power, and this is the time to do it.” Then you have to say, “I think you would stay in your current position, but well rewarded.” (Either truth or lie — tracked by flag (0,23), where 1 is truth and 2 is lie. You get special item 4.)

Edited by Kelandon
Why does one game have both Rockfall Canyon and Rockridge Keep?
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From what I've seen and heard, this is correct, except for one thing:

[spoileralt=Fixed location typo.]Done Yatsua, Deniz, and Monitor Sabre quests — (4,21) >= 6 and (4,29) >= 6 and (10,27) >= 6)

For Yutsua, follow the quest line until you drive off Drake Khremess. For Deniz, follow the quest line until you kill the mercenaries in the Riverlands. (Both Yutsua and Deniz are in Rockridge Keep, and you must report back to them for completion.)[/spoileralt]

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Right. Fixed. By the way, the spoiler tags were just for length; I assume the title suffices for spoiler tags for the whole thread.

 

I'll add that the part of this that I found surprising is that you don't have to give the satchel to the scout in order to get a kiss. As long as you tell Silke that you're going to give her the satchel, but then you don't do it, and you otherwise are nice to her, you can still get a kiss.

 

I also found a little surprising how easy it was to get on Protus's good side, but then, I ended up doing that completely by accident in my first game.

 

Then, too, you don't have to do a lot to get up to 5 of the 9 sidequests completed. Some of those quests (kill two of the optional super-enemies) are much harder than others (do the Callan quests).

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Right. Fixed. By the way, the spoiler tags were just for length; I assume the title suffices for spoiler tags for the whole thread.

...and if I hadn't been so brain-dead from studying, I probably would have thought of that too :p

 

I'll add that the part of this that I found surprising is that you don't have to give the satchel to the scout in order to get a kiss. As long as you tell Silke that you're going to give her the satchel, but then you don't do it, and you otherwise are nice to her, you can still get a kiss.

 

I also found a little surprising how easy it was to get on Protus's good side, but then, I ended up doing that completely by accident in my first game.

 

Then, too, you don't have to do a lot to get up to 5 of the 9 sidequests completed. Some of those quests (kill two of the optional super-enemies) are much harder than others (do the Callan quests).

 

Yeah, it is quite surprising how easy some of those are. Especially flattering Protus; you'd think a Dharamite judge and Heart of Avadon would be a bit jaded and tired of flattery by now. I was expecting my superior for this game to be a bit more like Miranda in Ava1, or even Callan. Not an open, friendly type like Protus.

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  • 3 months later...

Thanks for this thread! Is it specifically 10 Pact Papers you have to bring to Jazlyn or do arcane scrolls also count?

 

(I want the Eye medal but now I realize I may have done too many side quests already... however if only Pact Papers count for Jazlyn, then I still have a chance of getting that medal without backtracking a lot).

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Oh! I figured it was finishing the game by becoming an Eye rather than a Heart. Thanks!

 

So, does completing the game on hard mean playing on hard all the way through or just the final fight? I defeated Krymhylas on Hard 2 times but the Full of Hot Air medal did not unlock... is it because I played most of the game on Normal??

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That is my understanding, yes. You need to play the whole way through on hard to win the medal for hard and all the way through on torment to win the medal for torment (The "secret" medals). For the Full of Hot Air medal, it might be possible to turn onto hard before entering the map, fight and win and then turn back to normal later, but I am not sure.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Is it important that you give the Arcane Scrolls to Jazlyn instead of the Avadon Librarian?

 

Not really. The librarian pays better, so just give enough scrolls and/or papers to Jazlyn to get all her item rewards (this will also be enough to count toward Avadon's strength in the ending).

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Well I understood that Cybele hurts Avadon and Jazlyn helps it. But irrespective of the reward items would ones given to the Avadon Librarian instead of to Jazlyn also count toward the counter in favor of Avadon's ending.

 

edit: thanks for responses :)

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Well I understood that Cybele hurts Avadon and Jazlyn helps it. But irrespective of the reward items would ones given to the Avadon Librarian instead of to Jazlyn also count toward the counter in favor of Avadon's ending.

 

No. Only the papers you give to Jazlyn count for that (and the ones you give to Cybele, in the opposite direction). But once you've given her enough papers to count for the ending, giving her more won't make a difference.

 

Giving scrolls to the librarian in Avadon doesn't affect the ending at all, one way or the other. You can hand in zero scrolls or a million scrolls and it won't matter. Only the exact things mentioned in the first post of this thread affect the ending.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Apparently I wasn't nice enough to the scout earlier, and now that I'm in the Ogre Thicket, the only way for me to get the "And, to be honest, I hope we do meet again" in response to "Will I see you again", is to hand over the satchel. Is the payoff from the romance good enough to offset the reward I can get from Odil for giving him the satchel (i.e. the really nice charm)? A kiss alone doesn't seem worth it. ;)

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Apparently I wasn't nice enough to the scout earlier, and now that I'm in the Ogre Thicket, the only way for me to get the "And, to be honest, I hope we do meet again" in response to "Will I see you again", is to hand over the satchel. Is the payoff from the romance good enough to offset the reward I can get from Odil for giving him the satchel (i.e. the really nice charm)? A kiss alone doesn't seem worth it. ;)

 

Nah, it's kinda perfunctory.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Okay, this answers the question of 'how strong do you have to be for the loyalist endings'. How strong does Avadon have to be for the best traitor endings (i.e. not getting assassinated). I'm building up my nerve for a second attempt on killing Redbeard and I'm wondering if I really need to save the fort or whether it's better to have all five Hands working that fight. (My count without saving the fort will be 6, incidentally.)

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If you are playing on normal difficulty or with 2 tinkermages at the end, then you can probably win the fight with just 2 Hands helping you so you can save the Fort too. Otherwise it's probably better to be able to win versus Redbeard and just forget about upstairs.

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If you are playing on normal difficulty or with 2 tinkermages at the end, then you can probably win the fight with just 2 Hands helping you so you can save the Fort too. Otherwise it's probably better to be able to win versus Redbeard and just forget about upstairs.

 

That's not really what I was asking. If I have a score of 6, don't bother to save the Fort and manage to kill Redbeard, am I going to get the ending where I don't get assassinated? (I don't have two tinkermages, and even on Casual he's killing me.)

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That's not really what I was asking. If I have a score of 7, don't bother to save the Fort and manage to kill Redbeard, am I going to get the ending where I don't get assassinated?

This is in hard code, not in script, so I can't check this easily for you. (As noted in the original post, the one thing I can't see is what affects endgame text.)

 

However, my best guess is that if you have enough points to become a Heart, you're going to get the best possible kill-Redbeard ending, too.

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This is in hard code, not in script, so I can't check this easily for you. (As noted in the original post, the one thing I can't see is what affects endgame text.)

 

However, my best guess is that if you have enough points to become a Heart, you're going to get the best possible kill-Redbeard ending, too.

 

... okay, so be it. If I manage it, I'll confirm it here sometime tomorrow.

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  • 7 months later...

Not that I'm aware of, but almost nothing matters in Avadon 1 until the very end of the endgame. The way you handle Gryfyn and the words you say to Redbeard right at the very end are the main things affecting the ending, in addition to whether you kill the monsters that get you medals (Beloch, Zephyrine).

 

As far as titles you can claim, you can stay a Hand regardless (and challenge him to become Keeper regardless). You can become an Eye based solely on your dialogue with Redbeard at the end. Don't insult him to his face, and you can become an Eye. Becoming a Heart requires not insulting him to his face and saying the right things earlier in the game when he asks you about things. Don't tell him you want to be Keeper. Don't say that Avadon is corrupt, and its influence is entirely for sale. Don't tell him that Avadon is doomed. (You can check this when he gives you his powerful scarab; if he says he forgives you for foolish words in the past, you've screwed it up.) You also have to learn Dheless's name (and, in order not to insult him to his face, tell him).

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  • 1 month later...

I always had that feeling. I did nothing against or for pact in Avadon 1 on 3rd try. I however never was mean to redbeard and thus that char was a heart. In Avadon 2 I dont think its possible to be keeper after that long annoying engagement that took forever outside. If you brought like 30-40 potions I guess it would work. I just had little energy left to fight him.

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I always had that feeling. I did nothing against or for pact in Avadon 1 on 3rd try. I however never was mean to redbeard and thus that char was a heart. In Avadon 2 I dont think its possible to be keeper after that long annoying engagement that took forever outside. If you brought like 30-40 potions I guess it would work. I just had little energy left to fight him.

 

You're not supposed to fight them. The enemies in that sequence will keep respawning forever -- run away from the ones behind you and avoid the ones ahead of you whenever possible. Don't try to fight except where you absolutely have to.

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