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Ending Query - Spoilers and Requesting Spoilers


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I finished the game and liked it overall. I'm not likely to play it all through again, at least not anytime soon, and I'm wondering if anyone knows some things I'm wondering about.

 

For most of the game, I had my character take up the view that Avadon and the Pact should be preserved, but that Avadon should be accountable to the civilian government (i.e., Hanvar's Council). After a certain point I started taking the basement councilwoman's quests...the last thing I did for her was to check out Redbeard's tower and tell her about the level with the magic pool. (I also told the other councilwoman about Redbeard's underground lair, though I suspected her of being a spy.)

 

What I'm wondering is - did this attitude make any difference towards the ending? I mean, I was glad to see that the Council made up its mind to insist on asserting its authority, even when I played the loyalist ending. (I dropped the difficulty to normal to kill Redbeard and see the "other" ending...and was disappointed to see that that ending assumed I would fight the Council once I was Keeper.) But if I hadn't spied for the Council, or had slowed it down the way Callan wanted, would they have let Redbeard reign unchecked?

 

I notice that I like the Spiderweb games best when they are "ideologically complex"...I mean like Geneforges 2 and 5, where you have several different factions to align yourself with. What I'm wondering is whether this game really had multiple options at the end...as opposed to the simple "pro- or anti- Redbeard."

 

In the same vein - does Redbeard always disappear when you take the loyal ending, or does it depend on your actions? (I gave him straight answers about how he should step down for the good of the Pact, even if it means his life; I would like to think he took it to heart and vanished to avoid assassins.)

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Hanvar's Council attempts to take over Avadon no matter what, but some of the decisions you make in-game determine whether it succeeds.

 

As far as I'm aware, every path ends in either Redbeard's death or his disappearance. It seems like Jeff has decided he's been overexposed and wants him out of the way for Avadon 3.

 

There are pretty much three main endings (the ending in which you side with Dheless is significantly different from the "pro-Avadon, kill Redbeard" ending). Within each of those endings, there are variations based on what you did during the course of the game.

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As Lilith said the decision to fight or join with Redbeard and whether you help Dheless make the main endings.

 

What happens to Fort Foresight depends upon how many Hands get sent upstairs to help in their defense. This will also decide the fate of those Hands that you send upstairs on whether they live or die.

 

Yoshiria will also live or die depending on what you do with the Gray Raptor in Blackwood. Also there is a bit with you if you destroyed them.

 

Heart Protus may be included on what you said to him during the game.

 

Then depending on how much you helped Avadon or the Rebels during the game there can be other differences.

 

 

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Thank you both! By the way, is there a dialogue file where I can read the different endings language? I looked through some of those for the different areas (including Fort Foresight, which has some near-the-end dialogue) but didn't find the one for the endings.

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Thank you. Interesting that there appears to be an interesting option where you become keeper, yet Hanvar's Council does take over, leaving you on as Keeper to fight for the pact, but not to stand above the law. (However, it apparently assumes that you wanted to resist this, and only submitted reluctantly when Avadon would not back you up. Maybe this is the option if you haven't reported enough stuff to Callan or something?)

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Thank you. Interesting that there appears to be an interesting option where you become keeper, yet Hanvar's Council does take over, leaving you on as Keeper to fight for the pact, but not to stand above the law. (However, it apparently assumes that you wanted to resist this, and only submitted reluctantly when Avadon would not back you up. Maybe this is the option if you haven't reported enough stuff to Callan or something?)

 

Sort of. The game keeps a hidden tally of Avadon's military and political strength based on your completion of major sidequest chains and your decisions at certain plot points. The higher it is, the more power Avadon will have at the end (unless you betray Avadon to help Dheless, in which case I don't think it matters.)

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Here is the all of the ending text:

 

 

80 = "At last, the portal is ready to carry you to safety.";

81 = "";

82 = "";

83 = "";

84 = "";

85 = "As you approach it, several Hands run up to the gate. They are bloody, exhausted, and overjoyed. They report victory. The huge Tawon attack was turned aside. The Hands you sent upstairs made the difference.";

86 = "Redbeard nods. _Well done, warriors. Hold the fort. We will not leave you alone._ Then you all pass through.";

87 = "You nod. _Well done, warriors. Hold the fort. We will not leave you alone._ They note the gory scene, and they immediately know what it means. _Yes, Keeper._ they say. Then you pass through.";

88 = "";

89 = "As you approach it, you hear mad shouting to the south. Tawon warriors are approaching the gate. They are carrying a log, ready to bash their way in.";

90 = "Redbeard mutters, _We will never erase this shame._ You all step through. Eventually you learn that the Tawon took poor, underdefended Fort Foresight easily. There were no survivors.";

91 = "You step through. Eventually you learn that the Tawon took poor, underdefended Fort Foresight easily. There were no survivors.";

92 = "";

93 = "";

94 = "When you return to Avadon, you immediately set to work. Redbeard heads to his tower. You travel to your post.";

95 = "";

96 = "As a Hand of Avadon, you wait for your next set of orders. You don't have to wait long. Soon you are sent to the Khemerian border. Then the rebel lands again. Then to fight Svorgald landing parties.";

97 = "As an Eye of Avadon, you go to the library, where you divulge everything you have learned about Dheless and the rebels. You then head out again, traveling from outpost to outpost and gathering reports. It is dangerous work, but you are extremely well-suited for it.";

98 = "As a Heart of Avadon, Redbeard gives you a high honor. You replace Heart Protus as the main commander for the Hands, and Protus receives a long-desired post in the Keeper's tower. The Hands get orders and aid from you, and they soon come to honor and rely upon you.";

99 = "";

100 = "";

101 = "In the passing weeks, you find that Heart Protus no longer plots against Redbeard. You and he see each other often, but you never discuss your brief flirtation with treason. Ever.";

102 = "";

103 = "";

104 = "You are very busy, rarely finding a moment to sleep. Redbeard stays in his tower. Nobody sees him. Not even the Hearts. Shades and imps carry his orders from his tower.";

105 = "He sends all of you out to learn and fight, and as you explore and receive reports, you learn the true scale of the disaster that has befallen the Pact.";

106 = "";

107 = "";

108 = "";

109 = "When you return to Avadon, Heart Protus greets you and asks what happened to Redbeard. One look at your face gives him his answer.";

110 = "Word gets around fast. Avadon has a new Keeper, chosen the way all of its Keepers have been chosen. You are escorted to your tower. As much as you would like time to settle in, you have to get to work.";

111 = "After all, if you are not both skilled and careful, you will soon suffer the violent fate of your predecessor.";

112 = "";

113 = "You have to labor tirelessly. You have much to learn and no time to learn it. You have to learn all of the secrets of Avadon, who does what and how, where the levers of power are, and how hard you should push them.";

114 = "And, of course, you have to meet Hanvar's Council and a countless array of lesser officials. It would be a horrible trial even in the most peaceful of times.";

115 = "";

116 = "Happily, Heart Protus is there. You promised him a position of influence, and you meant it. He becomes your closest advisor and a powerful aid in learning everything you need to. You are true to your word, though you never forget how little he can be trusted.";

117 = "Heart Protus would have been a powerful aid in learning everything you need to. However, when he betrayed Redbeard, you decided to never trust him, and you meant it. He ends up in a cell in the deep dungeons, pale and forgotten. Nobody questions the order. You are Keeper.";

118 = "";

119 = "Sleep soon becomes a distant memory. You send out scouts. You receive reports.";

120 = "You never lose sight of one fact: If you are to hold your post, you will need to take control quickly and start to show real, tangible results for the Pact.";

121 = "You never lose sight of one fact: If you are to simultaneously hold your post and aid Dheless, you will need to take control quickly and act with great skill and care.";

122 = "You read reports. You learn. Soon, you are subjected to the true scale of the disaster that has befallen the Pact.";

123 = "";

124 = "";

125 = "";

126 = "Dheless didn't lie. His agents were everywhere in the Farlands, carrying treaties, satchels of gold, and promises of a future free of the Pact.";

127 = "The Farlands aren't allies. Each has its own plans, its own agendas. However, they all unite in one thing: Attacking the Pact, as hard and fast as they could.";

128 = "";

129 = "";

130 = "In better times, the Pact could have turned this disorganized assault aside easily. However, it was weak.";

131 = "Years of forgetting they had a common cause took its toll. The Pact forgot it had to work together, and its mutual distrust kept it from being able to properly dismiss the threat.";

132 = "";

133 = "";

134 = "You followed Redbeard's orders and did what you could to turn aside the hordes. Yet, Avadon was only one fortress. The five states of the Pact couldn't work together, and the carnage continued.";

135 = "You gave your orders and did what you could to turn aside the hordes. Yet, Avadon was only one fortress. The five states of the Pact couldn't work together, and the carnage continued.";

136 = "As Keeper, your job was easy. Be ineffective. Keep the Black Fortress from interfering with the good work of Dheless. Without your influence, the five states of the Pact couldn't work together, and the carnage continued.";

137 = "";

138 = "";

139 = "";

140 = "No matter what, the forces of Avadon had to emerge. The Black Fortress was still recovering from Miranda's betrayal. It had few warriors to send out.";

141 = "You might have done far better, but what was done was done. Avadon was far from having the forces necessary to make a real difference. Those who served under you thought you a weak and ineffectual Keeper.";

142 = "Since you wanted to help Dheless, you didn't mind the lack of power for Avadon. However, those who served under you thought you a weak and ineffectual Keeper.";

143 = "";

144 = "As time passed, however, the benefits of your tireless work to help the Black Fortress were clear. Your victories freed up Hands and Eyes, enabling more warriors and agents to be sent out.";

145 = "You could have done more, of course, but your accomplishments did much to win the approval of those serving under you.";

146 = "";

147 = "";

148 = "And still more. The extent of your victories, big and small, resulted in a powerful, confident Avadon. Early victories led to better recruiting, and soon the barracks of the Black Fortress swelled with excellent recruits.";

149 = "Of course, you made sure that the Hands and Eyes were never quite where they needed to be. They made a small difference, but you always made sure they could never score a decisive blow against Dheless. It was easy.";

150 = "As a result, you were hailed as a Keeper of unusual cunning and competence.";

151 = "";

152 = "";

153 = "With these feeble forces, the Black Fortress attempted to stem the tide. Losses were constant. Every day meant another funeral. And yet, the warriors of the Black Fortress followed their oath and did their duty.";

154 = "With these forces, the Black Fortress attempted to stem the tide. Losses were many and funerals were frequent. And yet, the warriors of the Black Fortress followed their oath and did their duty.";

155 = "With these powerful forces, the Black Fortress stemmed the tide. Losses happened and funerals were frequent. And yet, the warriors of the Black Fortress followed their oath and did their duty.";

156 = "";

157 = "";

158 = "It was at this point that you realized that someone was making a concerted effort to kill you.";

159 = "The Gray Raptors found out what you did to their outpost, and your position in the Black Fortress was not enough to turn aside their rage.";

160 = "";

161 = "Their assassins began to hunt you in earnest. You were competent, but not even you could stay away forever. You had to rely on the protection of the Black Fortress.";

162 = "";

163 = "Then the nightmares started. The illness. The patches of scaly skin. The odd growths.";

164 = "You didn't need to speak with a healer. You knew what happened. You could feel it. You drank of the waters of the Corruption. You took that sickness within you. Now it is warping you.";

165 = "";

166 = "Fortunately, you didn't drink too much. You were able to keep the advance of the sickness under control. The warriors of the Black Fortress knew something was off, but they decided to ignore it.";

167 = "Eventually, not even the warriors of the Black Fortress could ignore the illness. You were forced to accept a hard truth: The quality of your service had to be high enough to convince them to overlook your condition.";

168 = "";

169 = "Even with your responsibilities, you were able to occasionally slip away to spend time with [C]. The scout waited for you in the Titan Peaks. Your time together was infrequent, but all the more precious for it.";

170 = "";

171 = "In the end, your flaws were forgiven. Your service to the Black Fortress was valuable enough to make up for any flaws. You continued in your service.";

172 = "The filth of the Corruption always lies within you, but you find ways to control it. And even, in difficult times, draw from it.";

173 = "As for the Gray Raptors, they eventually tire of having their assassins killed. They send an envoy and you arrange payment of a blood price from the Avadon treasury. Problem solved.";

174 = "";

175 = "In the end, the drawbacks of having you around are too great.";

176 = "The Black Fortress decides that these hard times require a much more powerful Keeper. In the end, it's Eye Mamora that kills you during a visit to the dungeons. Sort of a surprise. You'd thought it would be Callan.";

177 = "The Black Fortress decides that these hard times require much more reliable servants. You are confined to a cell in the dungeons while they decide what to do with you. Alone and unprotected, you are easy prey.";

178 = "";

179 = "During your service to the Black Fortress, nobody finds out about your treason. Or maybe Redbeard knows, and he's only waiting until he doesn't need you. Then to the dungeons you go.";

180 = "It leads to many, many sleepless nights.";

181 = "";

182 = "";

183 = "And as for your companions.";

184 = "Khalida was slain while valiantly defending Fort Foresight.";

185 = "Khalida continued to loyally serve Avadon and live up to the ideals of the Pact and the Stone Code. However, her constant fugue states kept her from being given any but the simplest and least important of missions.";

186 = "Khalida continued to loyally serve Avadon and live up to the ideals of the Pact and the Stone Code. She mostly overcame her fugue states, and, as long as she stayed away from the Black Fortress itself, she was able to serve with great distinction.";

187 = "";

188 = "";

189 = "Yoshiria was slain by a barrage of spells while defending the gates of Fort Foresight.";

190 = "Yoshiria was never found again. Well, most of her. Once they saw that nobody was coming to her aid, the Gray Raptors delivered her head to her family in Holklanda.";

191 = "Yoshiria continued to serve the Black Fortress until the Gray Raptors caught up with her once again. Her death was quick and mostly painless. Alas, Avadon was too distracted to ever find the killers.";

192 = "Yoshiria continued to serve the Black Fortress. She earned a post defending Holklanda from foes within and without. At last, she could follow her oath without regret.";

193 = "";

194 = "";

195 = "Dedrik's command of nature was inadequate to save Fort Foresight. Happily, he was able to send the wolves he commanded to safety before the Tawon attackers brought him down.";

196 = "Dedrik served Avadon for a time. At last, his inability to ever see his family and help his homeland was too much for him. He deserted and fled west. So far, he has been able to avoid capture. When he is found, a death sentence is inevitable.";

197 = "Dedrik served Avadon as a loyal Hand, sustained by his ability to occasionally visit his tribe, see his family, and help the Wyldrylm.";

198 = "";

199 = "";

200 = "Yannick expended all his energy defending the Tawon attackers. He died happy, at last using the knowledge he gave up everything to obtain.";

201 = "Yannick left to explore the temples of the Tawon and was never seen again.";

202 = "Yannick tried to serve the Black Fortress, but his obsession with the secrets of the Tawon temples consumed him. In the end, he had to be confined in a cell for his own protection.";

203 = "Yannick tried to serve the Black Fortress, and his power was great enough to allow people to overlook his growing madness. His missions were always great successes, though they tended to leave a lot more scorched earth behind than they needed to.";

204 = "";

205 = "Alcander tried to sneak away from Fort Foresight. The Tawon attackers found and slew him.";

206 = "Alcander continued to serve the Black Fortress in his fashion: Doing the minimum possible and complaining bitterly to the increasingly small number of people who could tolerate his presence. He was never allowed to visit his clan, mainly out of spite.";

207 = "Alcander continued to serve the Black Fortress in his fashion: Complaining bitterly but solidly doing his duty. He was eventually allowed to visit his clan. With time and patience, he was even able to get them much of the treasure he obtained.";

208 = "";

209 = "";

210 = "And the war continued. There were many raids. Many battles. Hanvar's Council struggled to deal with the threat, quell the Wyldrylm rebellion, and end the disagreements of the Pact members.";

211 = "You watched this struggle from a distance, doing your best to aid Avadon. Every day, you hoped Redbeard would emerge from his tower and take a more active role in the defense. Every day, he remained unseen.";

212 = "You did everything you could as Keeper to fight for the Pact. It was a grim struggle. Unlike Redbeard, you were active. You went out into the field. Visited the troops. Saw the situation firsthand.";

213 = "You did everything you could as Keeper to help the Farlands, while making it seem like you supported the Pact. You appeared active, but aided the Farlands in a multitude of small, significant, nearly invisible ways.";

214 = "";

215 = "";

216 = "At last, Hanvar's Council was able to agree on something. When Redbeard ignored their fifth summons, they decided that they could tolerate his insolence no more.";

217 = "When they sent a force to enter Redbeard's Tower, they were allowed in. Redbeard had been unseen for too long. Nobody was willing to die for their absent leader.";

218 = "";

219 = "Redbeard's Tower was empty. The Keeper was gone.";

220 = "Avadon was stunned. Where did he go? Was he sending the orders? Was he dead? What happened?";

221 = "";

222 = "Hanvar's Council elevated Heart Callan to Keeper. Their troops stayed in Avadon, keeping a very close eye on events there. Soon, their influence started to grow. In Redbeard's absence, the council began to take control.";

223 = "Heart Callan did her best to maintain the independence of the Black Fortress, but she was no politician.";

224 = "";

225 = "";

226 = "At last, Hanvar's Council was able to agree on something. They wanted to take their power back from Avadon at last. They sent a powerful force to the Black Fortress.";

227 = "Their goal: Your submission, or your departure. The Black Fortress was to abandon its state of being totally above the law. In return, you would be allowed to remain Keeper.";

228 = "";

229 = "You turned to Avadon, hoping that they would support and defend you. They did. The council's troops were turned away, and the power of the Black Fortress was only enhanced.";

230 = "Thus, you were able to continue to fight for the Pact.";

231 = "Thus, you were left to undermine the Pact in peace.";

232 = "";

233 = "You turned to Avadon, hoping that they would support and defend you. They did not. Avadon was forced to submit at last.";

234 = "You stayed on as Keeper. Your power was greatly limited, but your resources were still great. You were able to continue doing the only thing you ever wanted to: Fight for the Pact.";

235 = "You did not stay on as Keeper. Instead you slipped quietly away, using a portal to flee to the Tawon and a life of exile. You never saw Dheless again, but he made sure, from a distance, you were looked after. He pays his debts.";

236 = "";

237 = "";

238 = "";

239 = "And so the war continued. In time, it would be called The Great Unraveling. A thousand little battles, a thousand raids, a multitude of petty conflicts.";

240 = "The result: After centuries of peace, the Pact had allowed itself to be subjected to the greatest threat to its existence since the Black Age.";

241 = "Dheless was never seen, but his influence grew stronger every day.";

242 = "";

243 = "Years passed. Cities burned. Armies fell. No land was untouched by suffering.";

244 = "The mystery of Redbeard's absence continued.";

245 = "You endured.";

246 = "";

247 = "";

248 = "Every day, peace seemed farther away.";

249 = "In the end, the common people, Pact and Farlander alike, could only ask one thing: _How will this end? Who will come and save us from this torment?_";

250 = "Perhaps, one day, that hope will be answered.";

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Perhaps because he or she is therefore that much more loyal to you personally and thus has fewer issues accepting your decisions.

 

(On a semi-related note, I would really like to see an endgame option where you somehow make Alcander and Nicodemus work together for the rest of their lives, just because it amuses me. But that may be the sleep deprivation talking.)

Edited by springacres
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If you take more than 2 Hands to face Redbeard, then Fort Foresight falls. It is possible to get the better ending on torment difficulty if you use 2 tinkermages and another Hand.

 

More precisely, you need to have at least 3 Hands defending Fort Foresight. (If Yoshiria and/or Yannick are still missing, they won't count toward the defenders, and you obviously can't take them with you to face Redbeard either.)

 

Also, it's possible to get the best ending for Avadon even if Fort Foresight falls, as long as you did pretty much everything else right.

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I think this is the part of the code where it tallies up Avadon's military and political strength, based on what you have done:

 

sf(100,24,0);

if (gf(16,66) >= 3) // saved ft foresight

inc_flag(100,24,1);

if (gf(12,13) + gf(13,12) + gf(20,23) >= 2) // kill 2 biggies

inc_flag(100,24,1);

if (gf(0,40) >= 2) // honor tokens

inc_flag(100,24,1);

if (gf(1,23) > 0) // chabon

inc_flag(100,24,1);

if (gf(0,29) >= 4) // callan quests

inc_flag(100,24,1);

if (gf(0,47) >= 4) // laria quests

inc_flag(100,24,1);

if (gf(4,22) >= 6) // eye dymas quests

inc_flag(100,24,1);

if (gf(16,29) >= 10) // jazlyn papers

inc_flag(100,24,1);

// 3 quests yutsua deniz monitor sabre

if ((gf(4,21) >= 6) && (gf(4,29) >= 6) && (gf(10,27) >= 6))

inc_flag(100,24,1);

 

// this happens in main code now

//if (gf(9,12) == 2) // kill odil

// inc_flag(100,24,-1);

//if (gf(17,27) >= 10) // cybele papers

// inc_flag(100,24,-1);

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There may be other checks as well, that are hardcoded, and were added after those last two checks were transferred to hardcode. But that should be a good guide.

 

According to the list of things that affect the ending in the hintbook, those checks are the only ones.

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