Is this game fun like Avadon?

[NamelessOne]

I just got done with Avadon The Black Fortress and had a really good time playing that game. I put most if not all my points into dexterity and evaded most attacks. A while ago, I purchased all your games via Spiderweb Complete Saga and would like to get into one of the Geneforge Games. Someone mentioned in one of his posts that Geneforge 5 is the best game in the series so I would like to take their advice.

 

Is this game very much like Avadon where I can evade most of enemies through dexterity or other skills? I usually play all these games on normal so I am a light weight

 

If anyone knows of a skill build or class where I won't get hit a lot, I'd like to know as these games look interesting.

[Lilith]

If you want to avoid hits in the Geneforge series, Parry is generally a better investment than Dexterity for physical combat-based classes. Each point of Parry gives you a flat chance to block an attack, regardless of how high the enemy's stats are. It's incredibly overpowered in Geneforge 2, and pretty good in the other games.

 

Of course, the other way to not get hit is to make a huge army of creations to take hits on your behalf.

[Alorael at Large]

Except for Geneforge 2, where the guardian with Parry is king, you really can't go wrong with the shaping classes (shaper or, in later games, lifecrafter). You won't be unhittable, but you can give yourself plenty of meat shields, and seven attacks are much better than one.

 

—Alorael, who recommends starting the series at the beginning. Geneforge 1 is one of the most beloved of the series if the dated engine doesn't drive you away. Give it a try, and if you can't enjoy it move forward to the next game and see if it's better. You don't have to play the games in order but it's probably a little more fun, and you'll pick up on some plot details, if you do.

[Kelandon]

Second the advice on Parry, and second the advice to start with GF1. These are plot-heavy games, and the plot is better to watch as it develops.

 

At some point, I want to do a replay of GF where I play from 1 to 5 straight through. Maybe I'll have time this summer. But I feel as though the effect would be pretty powerful. I played most of the games years apart, so the building up of plot was a little diminished.

[Hawat]

I somewhat recently got all 5 also, and started with G5. It's possibly my favorite game I've ever played. I'm playing through G1 right now, and part of me wishes I'd done that first, because I wouldn't hold it up to the standard set by it's more refined descendant. G1 is all about the writing and world building. But both are excellent.

[Lauren CW]

I would suggest starting with the first one and moving on as well, largely due to the plot, but also because it's easier to start with a clunkier engine and have new features added that are very nice, as opposed to starting with more advanced engines and slowly losing the nice features as you go backwards.

 

I have played every single Spiderweb game, and the Geneforge series is my favourite by far.

[Learned Noremac]

You definitely want to start with the first one, both for plot reasons and because you'll learn the game more easily that way. Geneforge 1 knows that an RPG where you essentially create your party out of your MP stat is an unusual idea and works hard to ease you into it. The other games do have friendly tutorials, but demand that you figure out this whole creation business pretty fast.

 

#1 is actually less plot heavy than the rest of the series--the later series have more of an obvious attempt to craft a narrative with recurring villains, climactic boss battles, and so on--but if you don't start at the beginning, you won't fully enjoy the narrative in the later games. Also, G1's endings are a bit more fun. In the later games Jeff seemed to be more conscious of creating a series, so most of the endings are at least vaguely compatible with a sequel, but G1 has a number of really crazy endings that are quite a bit of fun.

 

Plus,

it's the only one where you get the opportunity to go into "God mode" without cheats and can essentially obliterate everything once you've finished.

 

[Upon Mars.]

I find the title of the topic a bit provocative mind you, but yes, being a die hard fan of G1 I did find it fun, because it really puts you in a narrative similar to Avernum´s ( a naturalist veiw point) with a hint of Plato's philosophical myths.

[Catoblepas]

You definitely want to start with the first one, both for plot reasons and because you'll learn the game more easily that way. Geneforge 1 knows that an RPG where you essentially create your party out of your MP stat is an unusual idea and works hard to ease you into it. The other games do have friendly tutorials, but demand that you figure out this whole creation business pretty fast.

 

#1 is actually less plot heavy than the rest of the series--the later series have more of an obvious attempt to craft a narrative with recurring villains, climactic boss battles, and so on--but if you don't start at the beginning, you won't fully enjoy the narrative in the later games. Also, G1's endings are a bit more fun. In the later games Jeff seemed to be more conscious of creating a series, so most of the endings are at least vaguely compatible with a sequel, but G1 has a number of really crazy endings that are quite a bit of fun.

 

Plus,

it's the only one where you get the opportunity to go into "God mode" without cheats and can essentially obliterate everything once you've finished.

 

 

I'm not quite sure why Jeff decided to tone down the endings in the later games so much, he only picks one ending to be the 'canon' one anyways, since Genefore is not a series with import data. Even if you base your allegiance off of the flip of a coin, odds are in favor of you being disappointed in the sequel when your faction loses out. So why not go all out and allow for some endings where you get to really stomp all over the Shapers/Rebels or usurp control for yourself etc?

 

As for the original topic, I like the geneforge series more than Avadon, but they are somewhat different games, with Avadon being a bit more forgiving in many areas with the exception of some truly bizarre difficulty spikes such as the ravine hellhounds in Shimas quest, the two battles with the illusionist drake, and the optional final battle which I reckon you are familiar with. Playing as an Agent, I found the best defense to avoid getting hit was to kill the enemy before they get the chance to attack you in force. Shapers seem to be a bit fragile, so it pays to find ways to avoid getting attacked in the first place, in my opinion. Using creations as a screen or using mind spells/damage spells to thin out the ranks can help a lot. I personally hardly ever used melee weapons over the course of the series, because that would involve getting closer to my opponents. Shapers/Guardians might play a bit differently though.

[Death Knight]

If you try and become unhittable it wont work for you, trust me. Parry and endurance wont help even the most burly of classes. Melee only really gets good once Geneforge 4 and the servile. Before that, Guardians are terrible and Agents are deadly, but glass cannons. Shapers, are really the best class to use if you want to just enjoy the game. I wouldnt recommend play any of the other classes until you understand the games more.

[Lilith]

If you try and become unhittable it wont work for you, trust me. Parry and endurance wont help even the most burly of classes. Melee only really gets good once Geneforge 4 and the servile.

 

This is kind of the opposite of the truth. Guardians are pretty unreasonably good in Geneforge 2 thanks to Parry, and they're pretty viable in Geneforge 1 just because of the very high damage output of melee weapons in that game. Melee was weakened a lot in later games; the only reason serviles are competitive is that they also have access to decent mental magic for crowd control.

[Kelandon]

I'm now convinced that becoming unhittable is the single most broadly viable strategy in all Spiderweb games. The method differs (Gymnastics in the early Avernums, Parry in most of the GFs, Dexterity in Avadon), but the strategy is almost always good.

[Randomizer]

Slarty tried to run an unhittable build in Geneforge 3 and Avernum 4. Geneforge failed with the worms below Fort K on the first island and Avernum had Nodicaus as the first place where it didn't work.

 

Jeff is getting rid of that idea with a minimum 5% chance to always hit. So facing enough foes at once will destroy you.

[Lilith]

Jeff is getting rid of that idea with a minimum 5% chance to always hit.

 

That's been the case in literally every game he's ever made, as far as I know. It's not a new development.

[Death Knight]

Slarty tried to run an unhittable build in Geneforge 3 and Avernum 4. Geneforge failed with the worms below Fort K on the first island and Avernum had Nodicaus as the first place where it didn't work.

 

Jeff is getting rid of that idea with a minimum 5% chance to always hit. So facing enough foes at once will destroy you.

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Some of the best games have had a minimum chance to get hit, and it usually is 5% or 10%. Im playing Fallout 1 right now and its the almost exact same thing. The highest chance to hit an enemy for my fighter is 95% and likely the lowest chance to get hit is 5% but its almost impossible to get there and unneeded. Jeff's games have taught me to abuse the hardy tank build which works in many rpgs

[Lauren CW]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Some of the best games have had a minimum chance to get hit, and it usually is 5% or 10%. Im playing Fallout 1 right now and its the almost exact same thing. The highest chance to hit an enemy for my fighter is 95% and likely the lowest chance to get hit is 5% but its almost impossible to get there and unneeded. Jeff's games have taught me to abuse the hardy tank build which works in many rpgs

 

It's actually really, really easy to get to 95% hit chance in Fallout, even at absurd ranges with targeted shots. Getting your dodge up isn't as easy, but with proper armor and a level of lifegiver early on, you should be able to tank everything except high damage crits, which can kill you no matter what you do or how prepared you are bar cheating.

[Death Knight]

Yeah getting a reasonable dodge rate in fallout series is usually kind of tough. The reason why is that some of the armors are only possible to get later in the game. I didnt mess up a character but I couldnt get past the 1st game for my 1st character just because I didnt have a good armor. I also could have used an extra 3 levels to boot but whatever. Its much harder to screw up a character in Fallout series, but much easier to quit out of frustration.

 

The best way to get through the game is to use the exploit of ranged combat. Forget about melee which is the reason I failed the 1st time. Next time I will complete the game for the 1st time, Im going ranged weapons like I did in Avadon. Getting a better armor than metal armor will be much needed as well.