The Geneforge series: Psychopaths Vs Psychopaths

[Ohsky]

This has been probably discussed earlier but anyway.

 

Drakons vs Shapers. Either deserve to dissapear. So i had seen, that you can always, at least, in the first two games, avoid taking any side, get out to the end of the game and see how a*holish the char is returning back to council to be stupidly killed by shapers judging his morals.

 

In the third game you don´t have that option: i felt like a monster if i wanted to end it.

 

The same in the fourth: i felt like a monster.

 

Im playing the fifth game now and wow, im under death threat of another disposable diaper err i mean, shaper. Another psychopath. I hope i can end the game without taking sides that encumbers me with the huge responsability of the death of thousands of people, like earlier games. I don´t want to be responsible of how mad people are. Let them destroy themselves if they want to, i bring peace, love and light to the harsh lands of Terrestia. Obviously, that is a joke if you are playing any Rpg.

 

But, i felt better killing mindless monsters, demons, and undeads in other Rpgs. The huge moral charge these games brings, and maybe more Spiderweb ones from what i ´ve heard, is sometimes quite an annoyance if you want to feel good about yourself. I started with Avadon and since the beginning i felt i was being seen as an a*hole by everyone: nobody loved me. This can sound stupid but what i like in rpgs is to sympathise with Npcs rather than being hated and prejudged automatically for being part of an order, sect, police, etc.

 

 

Nevertheless, the Spiderweb games i have played are addicting as they have a rather decent gameplay and story for me, besides what i have said here. It doesn´t matter at all that graphics and sounds are simple, but everything else does it an entertaining and fun experience overall.

[Randomizer]

Some players try to find which faction gives the best moral ending since joining a faction usually results in major deaths. In the first two games, doing nothing but try to report back as quickly as possible is one of the worse endings, since by the time the Shapers decided on a plan it's too late. Not using the Geneforge and/or canisters gives you a better ending since you don't get shunned for glowing in the dark. Otherwise I find they all have flaws, but you want a side that doesn't destroy the world.

 

Avadon explains at the end why you get stuck feeling lousy about your assignments.

 

Avernum is the only one where you get a chance to usually feel good about what you are doing. Fighting the evil Empire and helping out the down trodden masses.

[Sudanna]

The moral questions of Geneforge are kind of the centerpiece of the entire series. The world isn't supposed to have a perfect option, because there's no such thing. The problems in Terrestria are complicated and neither side is perfect. Some are better than others (and opinions on which will vary), and making that choice is really what the games are about. It's something to think about and something to play your character towards.

 

Also, if you refuse to side with any faction, you're still responsible for everything that happens for failing to do anything about it, so it's not like that's a way out either.

[Ohsky]

No, you are not responsible for the madness of others. But the game blames you on that, quite ridiculously if you ask me, as you are not the center of the universe... it illusory forces you to see yourself as that, exaggerating your self-importance.

 

And, yes, there IS, a perfect option, if you want peace be peace. But few want that. How a simple videogame can bring such debate forcing you to experience imperfect options, forcing you to feel bad about yourself to just see an unhappy ending.... is the peculiar thing about it that brought these games to another level in my mind.

[Lilith]

For what it's worth, Geneforge 5 does offer options other than siding uncritically with the Shapers or joining the rebels to overthrow them. (Geneforge 4 sort of does as well, but the third ending branch is semi-hidden and doesn't exactly leave you with clean hands.)

[Sudanna]

You're responsible for your own actions, and your actions in Geneforge can bring about a number of possible endings. You're responsible for which one it is, and if you choose a subpar unaligned ending in the hopes of not having blood on your hands you're as responsible for it as those that side with a particular faction are for their ending. I wouldn't say the game blames you for it, anyways - events play out how they play out, and your actions are what they are. If it's not perfect, it's not saying that those imperfections are what you intended, it's just what happens as a result of your actions. And since your character is the one that brings about an ending and most of the plot, you kind of are really important in Geneforge.

 

That's the interesting part! The factions and their leaders are ideologically opposed to such a degree that they see violent conflict as their only recourse. Your character has to decide what to do with several factions that want to destroy each other and don't see peaceful reconciliation as an option. Some things clearly aren't possible for your character - brokering peace between factions is never an option, since they don't want it. You can either feel bad that the outcome isn't perfect or feel good knowing you did the best you could with a bad situation. And while most of the endings are bittersweet, only a few of them are outright unhappy.

[Ohsky]

Funny to read i was assasinated by Trajkov when he found me on a cell the Shapers put me into, in the first Geneforge. It should have given two options when ending: return to the Council, or exile, as other shapers did. I would have choosen exile. And [censored] the world if it burns to ashes, it will rebirth over time. And i would feel fine with myself as i hadn´t contributed to the carnage, that´s some example of an option. No ending has been happy or comforting for me in the first four Geneforges, and on Avadon. Bleh, i used all canisters i got my vicious hands on, without caring for that rage thing wich was funny to certain point. That cut some options but not using them would cut gameplay fun as well.

 

Well if there´s no drama there´s no point in such a game without violence. I personally, in real life im true neutral (like druidic of some sort) and trying to bring that into some Rpgs doesn´t work out as intended as there are no options to make it 100% real in game.

[Catoblepas]

I wouldn't say that the game can necessarily be boiled down to psycopaths vs psycopaths. Both sides have their merits and demerits and msot peopel who play the game will trend towards one side or a another. Personally I tend to side with the shapers in most things, particularly in G2-G4, because I despise the hypocricy and destructive nature of the rebels, but I know there are pleanty of folks on the forums for whom the ends justify the means and the rebels are an acceptable option. What I love about geneforge is that it encourages you to think about where you would put your chips down in a scenario with no perfect option like in geneforge.

 

I will say that I do wish there were more options to be a moderate shaper, however. Even if the ending wasn't as good (such as with Randomizer's example with the short endings in G1 and G2) as you could get otherwise. I would appreciate more grades of shaper philosophy to choose from-sometimes it seems like the rebels come in all the colors of the rainbow, while shaper factions invariably get coralled into one or two options at best.

 

For what it's worth, Geneforge 5 does offer options other than siding uncritically with the Shapers or joining the rebels to overthrow them. (Geneforge 4 sort of does as well, but the third ending branch is semi-hidden and doesn't exactly leave you with clean hands.)

 

Geneforge 5 factions are strictly split into rebel and shaper factions thoguh, I'm not sure if that really counts as giving you extra options, and it's fairly easy to get locked out of many of them fairly quickly. Three of them are rebel, and two of them are shaper, and IMO the game really tries to nudge you toward rebels in that game, which i did not really appreciate. rebels get a 'moderate' solution, but the closest shapers get to one is Alwan, with their only other option being a genocidal nazi nutcase. A great game to play if you want to play a 'good' rebel, but ultimately a rather disappointing one if you want to be a moderate shaper.

[Ohsky]

No the game shouldn´t be "boiled down" to psychopats vs psychopaths, but them hold the main protagonism. It´s comforting to find some Npcs with wich i feel more in line. But they tend to be hermits, isolated persons, above conflicts. There are always a few in each game and are all unaligned. So there is where i stand. I consider an obscenity to think the end justify the means. Such moral questions are well put on the series. Lol, Geneforge is like some philosophy class sometimes.

[Alorael at Large]

The point of Geneforge is that there are not good options. There is a war, and it's bloody and it's messy, and someone will win. You can help the side you think is best, but there aren't perfect solutions, and sometimes there aren't even good ones. You just pick the least bad.

 

Avadon's different in that the fact that you feel terrible isn't an accident of circumstances, it's justified by the plot. You are the evil empire and everyone fears you. Again, it's not a feel-good game, but your response to being seen as the bad guy when trying to be good is intentional. You're seeing the problem of the Black Fortress.

 

And Avernum mostly lets you be the hero and people love you for it. Not always very much, because bureaucrats will be bureaucrats, but you get to undertake heroics uncomplicated by moral quandaries for the most part.

 

—Alorael, who considers the most moderate rebel ending of G5 to be a Shaper ending. You're working with a member of the Shaper council, after all, even if you're required to take pro-rebel and pro-creation stances. That's the nuance: the Shapers are too hard-line to be good. You have to be willing to take a stand against their tenets even when working with them to get the moderate solution.