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A5: Dorikas you IDIOT!! :)


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Guys did u guys notice that when u do the ending of dorikas that he send u to avernum (well that okay for me i like avernum but not the food nor the ale)he doesn't send an army in avernum to take it over. I think that he didn't want to make really any change to avernum only the empire, now i rott there and die for later melanchion (sorry if the name wrong) to come and take the outpost over :mad: . well what ever. what do you guys think of Emperor Dorikas. :sick:

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If you had a choice between taking over the Empire or Avernum where would you go? Besides consolidating control of the larger Empire is more important than revenge on the worms that are trapped below. It's also a good established way of getting rid of rivals by exiling them to Avernum under the pretense that they are monitoring the area ahead of an invasion.

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well i would take over avernum too only for their useful things like crystal

hehehe i could gain alot of money through avernum. :)

but seeing Dorikas intentions is that, i was useful now i'm no longer and i did all the dirty job he didn't so i think i was the one that has should become the emperor but well i'm mererly a soldier so i don't know what i was thinking about ( i don't have my sanity :( ) i like emperor redmark endings quite somewhat more then Dorikas but still they keep me in that cave with the worms :mad:

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Avernum never beat the Empire. It managed to not lose to the Empire, but it fought on its own territory the entire time. The closest thing to victory over the Empire belongs to Rentar-Ihrno and the vahnatai.

 

—Alorael, who doesn't think Avernum has at any point possessed the manpower or resources to take on the bulk of the Empire's forces. It just had the ability to cause enough of a bottleneck to fight off the fraction that was sent against it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

That's true about Avernum. Avernum was at best fighting to a stalemate in some places, but lost a lot of ground. It was only due to the Empire's slow trickle of soldiers that Avernum didn't get completely overun. Mahdavi and a few others even say that if the Empire had a way to transport more soldiers down Avernum would fall. It was only due to the efforts of the Vahnatai and the Empire War Heroes that The Empire withdrew. In a sense it was a victory for Avernum. But only because The Empire gave up. They had the resources and the manpower to keep going.

 

During the Plague Wars, the Vahnatai attacked a newly settled backwater. If they had attacked the heart of the Empire, it wouldn't have caused even 20% of the devastation. Maybe some of the golems and half of the Alien Beasts, but they would've been under control.

 

Post #689 :cool:

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Sorry for the delay.

The Empire do have a behind by killing the Emperor ( or Empress ) and teaming up with avernum allies the empire will fall. ( maybe if we can get the vanathai as our allies me might win)

Don't think that the empire is invulnerable because it still have it's weak points and Avernum magic is very strong. The Empire have great limits on that.

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1.Well killing the emperor will make many politics unbalance on the surface that's an advange that avernum can use.

2. the empire have a lots of limits in magic avernum doesn't it's clearly that avernum is more then an expert in magic then the empire does.

3. Avernum have allies like melanchion (and maybe melanchion can call his brother and sisters to help too. Of course with treasure behind it). A5 melanchion says he have brother and sisters.

4. I'm not very sure of this but maybe the vanathai can help too but I don't really see the reason why ( maybe they think that the humans will leave the caves then).

 

With all these things Avernum have a great chance of winning and maybe at the same time take control of the empire.

I always thought that Avernum is more stronger than you think.

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In terms if sheer numbers, however, Avernum doesn't stand a chance. The only reason the Empire War was won was because the Empire couldn't send down as many men as it wanted to. Assuming that wasn't an option, the quarter-or-so million Avernites (getting my figure from the Fort Avernum pillar) would be fairly easily dispatched.

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The Empire's mages are powerful enough. Erika is likely the most powerful mage to appear in the series, and even she lost and got kicked down to Avernum. It's clear that while Avernum does not restrict magic the way the Empire does, the Empire has no shortage of official mages and they have much easier access to centuries of accumulated research and artifacts. Just look at the toys the First Expedition got to play with. Look at Garzahd.

 

Killing the Emperor? All it accomplished in A1 was getting the Empire to invade, more or less without an Emperor as Garzahd ran roughshod over the new and inexperienced Prazac. The Empire appears to run mostly on a competent bureaurcracy and military, not aristocracy, anyway. Loss of the head of state wouldn't be crippling.

 

Avernum has allies, but keep in mind that most of them have already lost to the Empire. The dragons live in Avernum because they were banished from the surface. The nephils were exiled like the humans. Only the vahnatai are a new threat. They're a serious one, as even a portion of one clan following Rentar-Ihrno could lay waste to a swath of the Empire. If the vahnatai united, maybe they could topple the Empire. But if the Empire united and seriously fought the threat, it would not be easy.

 

—Alorael, who suspects the best way to break the Empire would be to foment rebellion. It's clearly common enough that rebels form a significant portion of Avernum's population. There's A Small Rebellion. If the rebels were organized and backed by Avernum, they could cause enough unrest to use the Empire's own size, population, and resources against it.

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Like Alorael said, the only faction who could go toe-to-toe against the Empire would be the vahnatai. However, there is no good justification for the Empire to attack the vahnatai, or vice versa. The Empire has no interest in taking the deep caverns, and the vahnatai have no interested in conquest on the surface. Furthermore, there is no way to fight a conventional war between the two, since they are separated by a massive system of descending tunnels.

 

In Avernum 6's ending, it's mentioned that the Empire fragments due to civil war.

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