Aydin Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 #1: As said in my previous topic, the buildings are all unnecessarily huge and never match up with their outside / inside dimensions. Avernum's buildings felt realistic in their size and the things filling them. #2: Secret panels are practically impossible to find for anyone not playing in the largest resolution, leaning forward and squinting at the screen at all times. In Avernum: Escape I could at least see secret panels with a quick glance around as I moved through dungeons. #3: Animal skins are worth money. Iron bars are worthless and useless. This makes no sense. In fact, that the game even offers to let me pick up things that are worthless to begin with is perplexing. Why give me the option to load up on heaps of trash and bars / blocks of junk? #4: Extremely limited loot selection. One of the most enjoyable parts of RPGs is the loot. I can't count how many daggers I've encountered thus far, or how many copies of the same exact weapons I'm already using. Looting after battles just gets tedious instead of exciting. #5: "You're too weak, come back later." - This is not something you ever want to tell your player. It diminishes what accomplishments they have and shines a spotlight on the fact that you're railroading them. Quests, no matter how difficult, should be available if the player wants to attempt them suicidally. Besides that, these people are telling Hands of Avadon that they're weak when normally they're peeing themselves at the sight of me. Who is going to insult Avadon's henchmen and get away with it, honestly? #6: When dealing with baddies, they always offer me a bribe to get me to let them go. Curious, I save beforehand and accept the bribe. Then I reload, deciding "No, I'll take the bribe and kill you" and... mysteriously whatever they were going to bribe me with isn't there. This doesn't really make sense. Where did Neray's 300 gold go, exactly? #7: The enemy selection is extremely limited. I can only fight so many generic groups of 3-4 spiders, rats, wolves or wretches before I get bored. The existence of fatigue means you won't be using your flashy abilities against them either, unless you want to trek all the way back to the pylon and waste a few minutes of your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosquito---Slayer Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I totally agree with point 5 , the rest while annoying seem to be necessary for various reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aydin Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 And now I talk to Natalie in her room and she has a fit with me for not taking her out with me more often. Despite the fact that she literally hasn't left my side outside of Avadon since I first brought her in the dungeons with me. That was an odd conversation to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikki. Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Maybe she wants you to take her out for things other than life-threatening missions. Coffee, for example, or a movie. A lot of these are fair enough, though, I think. The relatively low amount of loot and reducded monster roster could be because Vogel spent more time writing the engine than filling it with game for Avadon - I'd expect more gear, more monsters, and more plot in Avadon 2. Also, you're deliberately being sent to areas where Avadon's control might be slipping, or where people aren't too fond of it, or whatever - I'm honestly surprised more people didn't insult me by saying I was too weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I'm surprised you felt limited by fatigue; most players' experience is that cooldowns are more of a limit on ability use than fatigue consumption until you start unlocking top-tier abilities near the end of the game. In fact, one of the common complaints is that fatigue doesn't really matter. The secret switch thing was changed for a reason, yeah; you can probably expect to see the bigger switches in future games. People complained about those too, on the basis that they made finding secret passages too easy. I don't envy Jeff Vogel -- he's trying to please a lot of people with very different tastes, even within the same subgenre. Limited variety in monster types has been an ongoing problem ever since Spiderweb Software switched to isometric graphics, more or less. SW has a pretty limited budget for art assets, so tends to reuse them as much as possible. Possibly things will improve as a result of the fat stacks of cash made by Avadon and A:EftP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmisary of Immanence Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Originally Posted By: Aydin #6: When dealing with baddies, they always offer me a bribe to get me to let them go. Curious, I save beforehand and accept the bribe. Then I reload, deciding "No, I'll take the bribe and kill you" and... mysteriously whatever they were going to bribe me with isn't there. This doesn't really make sense. Where did Neray's 300 gold go, exactly? The game balance goblins ate it. Honestly, players are so mayhem-happy that any little thing that can provide even momentary incentive not to reach for swords at the first opportunity is a good thing. —Alorael, who likes to not feel like he's getting completely taken advantage of whenever he goes for an option that isn't wholesale slaughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomizer Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 #3 The early betas had more items that were sellable for loot, then Jeff saw how much money was accumulating because beta testers loot everything and hold off on buying. It's easier to change item definitions for value than remove them or make it rational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parakeet Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 #1 I agree with the criticism of the building shapes not matching the above ground interior thereof. It's annoying. #2 I also agree with the Requires more resolution than my computer & eyes have critique. I commend to your attention the Little Addons listed in the strategy central area here that make switches & lockpicks more visible. Without the Switch addon, I would never have found a single switch. #5 I agree that our Author might choose to have the characters tell you that their regulations require them to have a Hand with X amount of experience instead of saying you're too weak. Some genuine hot heads in an adventure might have removed the You Are Too Weak speaker's head given the back drop story. #6 Maybe they had the loot hidden in a secret panel which they hadn't unlocked when you knocked them off. If I were facing folks with the reputation Avadon Hands possess, I'd make sure I was out the exit with the door slammed behind me before they could reach their bribe. Parakeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomizer Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 #6 My gripe with bribes is there are very few instances when you can demand more for the bribe or even to get paid. I hate that the Hand reputation is that your services can be acquired so cheaply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aydin Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 This isn't really a problem, but it doesn't seem to be worth making a topic about it. Can I just keep Lockpicking at 0, ignore every locked door I come across, then retrain and max it out to go on a lockpicking spree? And is there any downside to doing so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomizer Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 You miss a little XP and a nice healing scarab early in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 There are also some areas in the late game where you won't have access to the retrainer, so you may want to keep your lockpicking high for the endgame sequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMA Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 #6: What's offered in the dialogue & what you get in battle never do match up, it's the way the game is made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indignus Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Originally Posted By: Aydin #6: When dealing with baddies, they always offer me a bribe to get me to let them go. Curious, I save beforehand and accept the bribe. Then I reload, deciding "No, I'll take the bribe and kill you" and... mysteriously whatever they were going to bribe me with isn't there. This doesn't really make sense. Where did Neray's 300 gold go, exactly? Always remember this. If you spot an enemy (without him/her spotting you first), quickly save the game (much better if organized). You may want to try out other choices, so you wouldn't have to start another game if you want to pick that choice. --------- -A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aydin Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 Well, that was a fun hour of my life wasted. I saw the troops in the hill giant area and decided to clear out all the outposts first, to ensure they had minimal casualties before following me in to hold the fort. But, oops. It looks like if you kill all the giants and then go back, the soldiers have mysteriously vanished. Now I need to redo the entire area all over again to get the events with the soldiers properly. Ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerakeen Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 They shouldn't disappear unless you left the zone. But if you've already killed all the giants, what do you need the soldiers for? You're not missing anything crucial, since they don't actually stay to hold the fort, or help you once you go inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomizer Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 The troop leader gets insulted for calling them cowards for not following you inside. Also you get an easier fight, but less experience for using them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aydin Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 I didn't leave the zone. I went through, killed the giants, walked inside the fort, talked to the goblins, then left the fort and walked all the way back to the soldiers who had vanished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerakeen Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Hm, well they normally leave after you clear the approach to the fort, but there's a dialog when that happens. I guess if the soldiers are not in range they leave anyway, just without the dialog. It's really not a big deal and has no effect on the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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