Burgeoning Battle Gamma SapientCrow Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 SO I just played through on hard mode and was extraordinarily frustrated at times. I like the challenge but is torment mode just some obscene damage reduction for enemies with no real exp bonuses or item improvements? I could not play normal mode because it was just easy mode but at times hard was just annoying since it was merely a hefty across the board damage reduction with no real bonuses to exp or items or coin drop to compensate or balance. So my question is on torment mode will I need to run around a great deal just fighting random enemies and getting 4 exp points just to get high enough to defeat some areas? I can not help to feel that the difficulty modes were not tested or balanced but perhaps because I am very new to the game I am incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Zummi Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Pretty much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 The games is balanced for normal difficulty. Playing a singleton on torment difficulty during beta testing is for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Originally Posted By: SapientCrow So my question is on torment mode will I need to run around a great deal just fighting random enemies and getting 4 exp points just to get high enough to defeat some areas? Fighting random encounters to level up doesn't really help very much. The important things on Torment are to put stat and skill points in the right places, use correct tactics and carefully choose what order to do various areas in. Even then, of course, it's not going to be easy. Strategy Central contains various useful resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Originally Posted By: SapientCrow SO I just played through on hard mode and was extraordinarily frustrated at times. I like the challenge but is torment mode just some obscene damage reduction for enemies with no real exp bonuses or item improvements? I could not play normal mode because it was just easy mode but at times hard was just annoying since it was merely a hefty across the board damage reduction with no real bonuses to exp or items or coin drop to compensate or balance. They're not supposed to be balanced against each other. If you crank up the difficulty, the game gets harder. There's no reward for it; that would undermine the difficulty! —Alorael, will point out that you're in no way obligated to play on hard mode if you find it difficult. He doesn't. He happily sticks to normal most of the time and enjoys it very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma SapientCrow Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 I will try it out. Not sure it undermines the difficulty adding in bonus exp or even a few bonus skill points to even out the harsher fights. The fight with the emperor on hard was simply stacking invulnerability elixirs otherwise 4 aoe casts was bye bye. that's basically god mode how do the other avernums do difficulty? do they all have these settings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug AaronC Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 If I'm remembering correctly the older games increased exp for higher difficulties..exile I think? I could very well be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Being rewarded with more experience or items wouldn't be making the game more difficult though, it'd just be making the numbers higher. For instance, on Normal you might be level 30 when taking on Hawthorne. If you got more experience for playing on Torment, you might be as high as level 40 or 50, which would make it seem like you were tougher, but in real terms, considering monster's power increases at higher difficulties, there'd be the same gap between party and enemies as there is on Normal. Edit: Aaron, I'm pretty sure they didn't. It's been a while since I've played Exile, but as I've pointed out about, it makes no sense for that to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Originally Posted By: SapientCrow ...to even out the harsher fights. That's just it. "Evening out" harsher fights means you're toning down the difficulty. There's already a way to do that: turn down the difficulty! High difficulty is for people who want their games to be, to my tastes, punishingly hard. I don't, so I don't play on those settings. No Spiderweb game has given any extra items, gold, experience, or other reward for difficulty. You get tougher fights, and that's it. Realmz gave sharply increasing experience, to the point where it was often more profitable to grind easy fights on the highest difficulty than to fight reasonable foes on normal difficulty. —Alorael, who wonders is the psychology of game difficulty and that of addition of capsaicin-containing condiments to food are similar. Capsaicin might be more physiological, but people share a weird desire to make things hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Torment? I happen to think that hard is just the right amount of difficulty. Normal is fairly simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Sterno Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Torment is definitely all about picking and choosing your battles. You'll likely spend a lot of time half-completing a dungeon, having to run away from the final fight, and then coming back in a few levels to finish it off. Also, I don't think I'd even try Torment if I was going into the game blind. That worked on Avadon because the game was so linear, but for Avernum you really need to have a good idea of where some of the spells, trainers, etc are, because you really have to make the most of every single thing you are given, and take advantage of things as soon as you can feasibly get them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma SapientCrow Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 out of curiosity do difficulty settings work when the editor is activated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Juan Carlo Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I played through on torment. You don't really have to grind at all, but you do very much have to do things in a particular order. You will always have some quest that is within your reach, but sometimes finding out where exactly you are supposed to go early game can be frustrating. I often found that I'd start quests before having to abandon them because I wasn't strong enough yet. Word of advice: Do all the early quests in your immediate area, culminating in retrieving the mayor's necklace. Then get to the great cave and do all the available delivery quests to get some experience. Most great cave combat will still be out of your league, though, so at that point go back and do all the Slith quests (which should be manageable by now). After that the game kind of opens up and you should be fine to take on most anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Originally Posted By: SapientCrow out of curiosity do difficulty settings work when the editor is activated? Sure. Why wouldn't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma SapientCrow Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 thanks for the info and advice. I am actually finding torment not too bad since it is my second playthrough and I know what stats do and where to go. I am also using the remix which of course nerfs magic but does help out with ranged weaponry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 @SapientCrow: You mean the character editor? The strength of your enemies should remain identical to what it is on any given difficulty; only your characters' attributes change when you use the editor. And yeah, grinding has never been all that helpful in Jeff's games, except inasmuch as you consider sidequests to be a form of grinding. In many recent games, you literally can't grind past a certain point, because there are a finite number of enemies. Even in games with infinite spawns (like AEftP or the early Averna), you get major reductions in experience rewards for fighting lower level enemies, and eventually all enemies are lower level than you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish Caribou16 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 It would be a neat mechanic if, as difficulty increased, the strategy if the monsters changed as well as just a health/damage increase. Maybe they would be less susceptible to the warrior trait that causes them to attack the tank, or they would know to gang up on a priest or mage to knock out the groups healer/main damage source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Originally Posted By: Caribou16 It would be a neat mechanic if, as difficulty increased, the strategy if the monsters changed as well as just a health/damage increase. This does happen to some extent. Some enemies will have access to extra abilities on higher difficulties. Don't expect very much more than that; Jeff's said that writing AI code is one of his least favourite things about making games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish Caribou16 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Yes, it would be very difficult to code, I'd imagine. I was just wondering out loud. Actually, since it's called "Torment" maybe every monster attack adds that damage over time lightning effect...THAT would be torment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Jeff stated in his blog that making too intelligent an AI that could make it much harder alienates his players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Quote: Maybe they would be less susceptible to the warrior trait that causes them to attack the tank, or they would know to gang up on a priest or mage to knock out the groups healer/main damage source. Has anyone seen that trait do anything, though? As far as I've been able to tell, the threat-reassignment skills in Avernum and Avadon just don't do much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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