Tenderfoot Thahd militantm1nd Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 So I need to get to Solberg's tower from Ft. Draco. In theory this sounds simple; buy a boat from Brandon and sail on by. Except for s-m-r-t me: I stole Draco's supplies and had to kill Brandon ending his longstanding marine engineering career. Now is there anyway to steal those nice boats in behind poor Brandon's shop? Thanks, militantm1nd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk adc. Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Hmmmm... Ask SuperBa, he's around here somewhere... Oh and yes, Welcome to Spiderweb Software, please emancipate/leave any remaining sanity at the door. You are welcome to take it back if there is any remaining... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Superba Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 There might be a way but I don't know it. You can always try the Orb to fly there across the river, but it seems too far. You can replace boats with a cheat code, but it wouldn' help if there's no one to buy them from. You can also load a previusly saved game, and this seems to me the only chance to get to Solberg. But I might miss some other ways, so you better wait for Randomizer ultimate help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Kreador Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 It is not possible to get to Solberg with the Orb. Only by boat. How to get a boat if you've killed the only guy on the river who sells them, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 You would have to modify the zone script for Fort Draco to replace Brandon so you could buy a boat or copy the transaction part of the .dlg script so when you click on a sign in town you could get a boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Actaeon Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Does pleaselikeme work in Escape from the Pit? That way you'd only have to find a save from before you killed Brandon (not from before you stole). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I think the code you need is this: Code: code = (set_boat_range_property(8,12); break; A slight problem is that there are no clickable signs in A:EftP, so you'd have to attach it to a dialogue node. Presumably there's no-one left in Ft. Draco to talk to. Not having done anything with boat scripting before, I'm not sure if it would work from another town, but I think it should. It's worth a try. Edit: You could add it to the lizard dialogue in Formello. Right-click on the Avernum icon and select "Show Package Contents". Open the Contents folder, then the Resources folder. Locate the file called 't8Formellodlg.txt' and make a back-up copy just to be safe. Open it up and search for 'lizard'; you will find this: Code: begintalknode; // lizard tag = 4; state = -1; nextstate = -1; condition = 1; text1 = "This fanged reptile looks up at you, depthless hatred and murder in its eyes."; Add the extra code at the end, like so: Code: begintalknode; // lizard tag = 4; state = -1; nextstate = -1; condition = 1; text1 = "This fanged reptile looks up at you, depthless hatred and murder in its eyes."; code = (set_boat_range_property(8,12); break; And save, obviously. Then take your party to Formello and chat up a lizard. Hopefully it will give you a boat. You'll have to go back to Ft. Draco to find out. Probably be a good idea to change the script back afterward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk adc. Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 It is a good idea, but I still don't know if Jeff actually made this as a puzzle or it was just a glitch. So, better make a backup file, maybe it might have a corrupted outcome... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 It's neither a puzzle nor a glitch. Turning a town hostile has consequences, as it should. This is a cheat to try to sidestep those consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 On the other hand, it is sort of funny that you're not allowed to steal the boats even after killing everyone who might stop you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 That's not funny, that's stupid. I will never understand why you are allowed to attack friendly characters at all. There are no circumstances where you need to; there are no circumstances where you can get a meaningful prize for doing so (particularly since in AEFTP the herb/wisdom circuit will get you more XP at high levels than slaughtering townsfolk); and there are circumstances where this can lead to unexpected things happening and games getting permanently stuck. Witness the "Fort Avernum attacks me" bug Jeff posted about, and this one. Whereas any time you have a serious reason to attack a friendly, like a quest, there is a dialogue option to initiate combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Originally Posted By: Lilith On the other hand, it is sort of funny that you're not allowed to steal the boats even after killing everyone who might stop you. True, but that's one of the little quirks we've always had in Avernum. Maybe they're LoJacked. Edit @ Slarty: And Jeff seems to agree with you on that; witness Avadon. Presumably he left it in A:EftP in deference to previous versions. I know some people would have complained if it had been changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S That's not funny, that's stupid. I will never understand why you are allowed to attack friendly characters at all. There are no circumstances where you need to; there are no circumstances where you can get a meaningful prize for doing so (particularly since in AEFTP the herb/wisdom circuit will get you more XP at high levels than slaughtering townsfolk); and there are circumstances where this can lead to unexpected things happening and games getting permanently stuck. Witness the "Fort Avernum attacks me" bug Jeff posted about, and this one. Whereas any time you have a serious reason to attack a friendly, like a quest, there is a dialogue option to initiate combat. i'd bet it's because a bunch of people complained about Avadon not having an option to attack friendly characters because it's ~~~unrealistic~~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt BMA Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I think it's nice to know that you can attack any person you want, if you feel like doing it. Someone said a while ago that you were capable of picking up useless things which is, well, a useless option. When I think about it, I feel sure that it's the same case. I mean, its always there, and doesn't hurt. When you dislike someone and want to whack him, you can imagine yourself to have 'spared' his life. That's better than knowing that you can't do anything about it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk adc. Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Right. I remembered that there was one boastful and arrogant drayk on Geneforge 4 (in derenton freehold), I wanted to give him a headshot even though he isn't real. So, instead, I killed him to make myself satisfied. The drayk was: Sakdoss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 The old Avernum games were beloved by many for the sense of freedom - which includes the freedom to do stupid things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Kreador Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I think in this case, Brandon should be one of those NPCs who never turns violent, like the ogres and the pit master in Spire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Superba Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Originally Posted By: Jerakeen The old Avernum games were beloved by many for the sense of freedom - which includes the freedom to do stupid things. I think I will write this quote on my super secret quotes copybook No, I mean, it is serious fun to me this subject as I don't attack any good ones, maybe this is mainly because I don't know how to do it... however, there's that Bela in Bargha that I really would kill. Do you think the gate will stay forever close if I do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 That's actually a really good question. Of course Bargha would turn hostile, but the question is whether Jeff considered that possibility in the town script. If I had to guess, I'd say no. The gate would probably stay shut. Personally, I almost never attack friendlies, because for some irrational reason it makes me feel bad. But I still like having the option. There's no virtue in sparing the innocent if you have no choice. And then there are always people who won't be satisfied unless they can kill Erika, Micah, Solberg, and the whole Tower of Magi. Which, by the way, has anyone done that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk adc. Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Yeah, when I the demo for AV6 was completed, I tried to kill them. But they were too powerful... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Erika has a autodeath node, but I haven't tried the rest. In Avernum 4, there were players that would see a mage isolated from everything else so they could kill him without making the area hostile only to find out later how the death would screw up the rest of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Originally Posted By: Randomizer Erika has a autodeath node, but I haven't tried the rest. She doesn't have one in this version of the game -- or if she does, it doesn't work properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Harehunter Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 It seems that even in Avernum, there are consequences for making bad choices. I, for one, have never given up the opportunity to try to kill Gladwell. There's something about that guy that drives me to it. But I still wait until I am certain I won't need him anymore. As another example, I remember that the topic of killing Motrax in Exile 1 had been problematic, if you hadn't already gotten the hint about the amulet. Ooops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Exile 1 doesn't have an amulet. I think you mean the information about the location of the stone key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 @Jerakeen: I'm all about freedom, but freedom ought to mean freedom to take actions that have meaningful consequences. If I murder a whole town or outpost for no good reason, people should react to my characters as if they're the sort of people who can and do murder whole towns: fear, hatred, disgust, and more than a little awe. Anything less just destroys verisimilitude and cheapens the experience. It reminds the player that the world doesn't behave the way an actual, internally consistent world would. This is something that gets on my nerves about both Jeff's earlier games, and some of his blog posts: he's always quick with the "you expected realism in a world full of Shapers, demons, magic, and all dat?" There are times when it feels like he doesn't grasp the difference between realism (i.e. following laws of physics, biology, psychology, etc. in the way the real world does) and internal consistency. Puce deer: I'm with Slarty on this. If attacking friendlies doesn't do anything meaningful, there's no point having it in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 People should also notice that all their stuff is missing after you wander through town, if you want realism. I understand the rationale for what you're saying, and I have no quarrel with it for newer games like Avadon. But my feeling is that it would have been just a little too restrictive for the free-wheeling, wild adventure that is and was Avernum. And while I've had my own issues with internal consistency in Spiderweb games, I'm not going to complain about being allowed more choices, especially if it helps preserve the atmosphere of the original games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Originally Posted By: Othar Trygvassen: Gentleman freedom ought to mean freedom to take actions that have meaningful consequences... Anything less just destroys verisimilitude and cheapens the experience. It reminds the player that the world doesn't behave the way an actual, internally consistent world would. This. I think you really got to the essence of the argument here, much more neatly than I did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Skwish-E Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I like slaughtering the innocent sometimes in one of Jeff's games. I'll kill off a whole town, imagining that my reputation as a heartless warrior will strike fear onto the hearts of my enemies. I kill peaceful old lady sliths in Avernum 6, too. And whenever I get an opportunity to let minions run away while I confront their leader ... I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Harehunter Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Brooches, not amulets. The only town I would repeatedly take down was Spire. Just something about the mayor, whichever one it may be,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk adc. Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 On AV3, you could kill Erika for no reason at all. But when you do, a dialogue will show up something like a quickfire fills the entire room, but you don't have time to escape. Then you die. You could kill her with and escape with the cooling amulets. But on the later game, the bunker on New Cotra with a wizard will ask you that who is responsible for the plagues on the surface? You will choose either Erika, The Vahnatis (wrong spelling) or the dragons. Then, I saw on AV6 on the World Map, there is a place named Ruins of Erika's tower... I'll just simply say that combat mode should be enabled even at friendly areas for unnecessary but fun acts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd militantm1nd Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 I get an error no dialogue node with given tag... Re: code: code = (set_boat_range_property(8,12); break; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Okay well I was probably wrong about the code then. As I said, I haven't done anything with boats before. Sorry, maybe someone else has a suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Try altering file - t14FortDracodlg.txt Code: begintalknode; // boat tag = 1; state = -1; nextstate = -1; condition = 1; text1 = "This boat is almost complete. It looks like Brandon is putting proper craftsmanship into the things, which is good. A lot of people trust their lives to his work."; so it now looks like this Code: begintalknode; // boat tag = 1; state = -1; nextstate = -1; condition = 1; text1 = "This boat is almost complete. It looks like Brandon is putting proper craftsmanship into the things, which is good. A lot of people trust their lives to his work."; code =set_boat_range_property(8,12): break; So when you enter Brandon's boat yard and click on the boat on the floor in the center you should get the text and now have a boat for use. I think the problem was an extra left parenthesis messed up the code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Quote: I think the problem was an extra left parenthesis messed up the code. Of course. Careless of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd militantm1nd Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 Still a dummy : So when I change the t14 dialogue txt file and I enter into Fr. Draco I get: t14fort Dracodlg.txt script failure: Invalid symbol in line 18. t14fort Dracodlg.txt Error: Tried to process invalid dialogue script.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Erebus the Black Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 try changing the colon(":") at the end of "code = ..." to a semi-colon (";"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd militantm1nd Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 Best. Coding. Ever. Thank you all SO much for your help and care! The colon to semi-colon did the trick: when I click on the center boat in Brandon's shop I get the dialogue and the first boat on the right of the dock. Thank you!!!!! P.S. I am level 28 FINALLY getting able to do Find Soberg. LOL Edit: That's Solberg with an "L" not Lisa with an "z". ;P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd militantm1nd Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 Ok well, anyone have any ideas on how to resurrect the Ft. Draco blacksmith to fix the DemonSlayer? hahaha. Oh man. Super dummy. Edit: Actually, I checked and he's (the blacksmith) still alive, just very, very angry. You know, when I stole the supplies and got attacked- initially, I ran out of the town hoping to somehow placate the situation. After returning later and not discovering a way to do so- I took some well deserved aggression out on a few choice townsfolk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 The 'forgiveme' cheat might work. Leave town first, then type shift d to bring up the cheat console. Type in forgiveme and hit enter. Go back to town and see. It doesn't work for really egregious crimes; I don't know if this qualifies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd militantm1nd Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 I was *NOT* egregious! ...to quote the Team America title song "^&*K Yeah!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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