Garrulous Glaahk ixfd64 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 So far, all of Spiderweb's games are fantasy/medieval-themed RPGs. However, Encyclopedia Ermariana mentions a major space battle that occurred in the Alxus star system. This gave me an idea: what if Jeff designed a space-based RPG? I think a deviation from the traditional medieval-themed games could bring in more customers. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Geneforge was originally supposed to be science fiction and not fantasy, but Jeff felt at the time there weren't enough players that would buy that type of game. A space based game might sell now, but I can almost hear Jeff's screams about having to get all new graphics after he just upgraded for Avadon and the Avernum remakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Necris Omega Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Maybe after Avadon and the new Avernums run their course, but... who knows? After all that it may be that he has to rework Avernums 4-6, or opt to redo the Geneforge series. Kinda too far out to say for sure methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Actaeon Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Geneforge isn't nearly as antiquated as the first three Avernums, and might hold up for quite some time before justifying a remake. How many Avadons are anticipated? It could be time for a new series in three or four years. Not that space seems like a likely setting for Jeff to enter into. But I didn't expect him to move to the iPad, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 With alternating remakes and Avadons, and assuming Avadon gets at least a full trilogy and games come out at about one per year, that's at least four years before Jeff needs to start thinking about something really new. At that point, Geneforges might start looking aged as well, but a space RPG is a possibility. —Alorael, who still expects some skittishness about it. It's a very different setting, not what Jeff is used to or, critically, his customer base has become accustomed to buying. It might work, but Jeff has shown himself to be very risk-averse. And he'd have to have a plot idea and mechanics that really make use of space as a theme. (Or he could just make Star Wars knockoffs.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Originally Posted By: Actaeon How many Avadons are anticipated? judging by previous form, the series will continue until either jeff gets sick to death of writing for it or people stop buying it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Originally Posted By: Actaeon Geneforge isn't nearly as antiquated as the first three Avernums, and might hold up for quite some time before justifying a remake. Oh, G4 and G5 are fine, but that's because they're relatively recent. G1-G3 are almost as old as the first Avernum Trilogy, and about as painful to play as well. Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba ... and about as painful to play as well. Dikiyoba. Just because some players *cough*Dikiyoba*cough* are obsessive compulsive about collecting items and placing them in neat piles in cleared zones is no reason to consider it painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Originally Posted By: Vespers at Dawn Or he could just make Star Wars knockoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Parodies are definitely not knockoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I know, I'm just joking around. I guess my sense of humor is just a little too quirky sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Originally Posted By: The Mystic Originally Posted By: Vespers at Dawn Or he could just make Star Wars knockoffs. FYT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 In my opinion, while jeff might have thoughts about a space game, he likely wont do it as it goes outside of his style. The only game he might be possible to do is an arcanum style game where there's magic and technology. He wont do it if its just technology as jeff always makes fantasy. The reason why he would be good at it is because jeff always is good at making games where you have choices in the game, shapers/rebels, Redbeard/wayfarer. I think he would be able to convince himself that this would sell. Now while that is not my most wanted game, I still think he could make it good. I'd love to personally see a fantasy/vampire world of darkness style partybased-rpg done in jeff's style. But jeff would never do it and neither would anyone else as no one ever makes any vampire roleplaying games. At least not any good ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Necris Omega Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 The Vampire genre has all but lost its pants, having been hijacked from the horror genre and shoved firmly into the adolescent tween romance genre. Even if someone could produce the perfect, dignified, and above all fun vampire RPG, it'd still wither in the face of the shame and reputation the word "vampire" has been force fed with. Though, I hear there IS a WoD Vampire MMORPG in development... But that last acronym can spoil a lot of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 yeah mmorpgs are not one of my things. They get boring after you realize there's no story, which is about a half an hour into it. I would say that even games like vampire the masquerade-bloodlines is screwed as well. You can give me the best rpg game for the pc and if it isnt the isometric view found in spiderweb/basilisk and any other roleplaying game, i wont finish it. Skyrim, morrowind, oblivion, all great games. But i wont play them as the view is terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Originally Posted By: Randomizer Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba ... and about as painful to play as well. Dikiyoba. Just because some players *cough*Dikiyoba*cough* are obsessive compulsive about collecting items and placing them in neat piles in cleared zones is no reason to consider it painful. Don't worry, Avadon's junkbag broke me of that habit. Replaying the early Geneforges still hurts. Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I'd certainly at least try a SciFi game from SW. To be honest though, I play Spiderweb games to get my Sword whacking fix. I'm pretty comfortable with the content Jeff has coming out Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba Originally Posted By: Actaeon Geneforge isn't nearly as antiquated as the first three Avernums, and might hold up for quite some time before justifying a remake. Oh, G4 and G5 are fine, but that's because they're relatively recent. G1-G3 are almost as old as the first Avernum Trilogy, and about as painful to play as well. Dikiyoba. I'd like to co-sign this. I've been playing through the Geneforge series from the start and the gaps between the advances in the engine are really noticeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Necris Omega Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Originally Posted By: Death Knight yeah mmorpgs are not one of my things. They get boring after you realize there's no story, which is about a half an hour into it. I would say that even games like vampire the masquerade-bloodlines is screwed as well. You can give me the best rpg game for the pc and if it isnt the isometric view found in spiderweb/basilisk and any other roleplaying game, i wont finish it. Skyrim, morrowind, oblivion, all great games. But i wont play them as the view is terrible. One of my greater trepidations on the subject, honestly. I can't see how you could get a supposedly story heavy system like VtM and force it into an MMORPG without it being mangled beyond all recognition. That said, I honestly liked Bloodlines. It was very different from my usual swords and sorcery fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Actaeon Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 My only beef with the early Geneforges is the relative lack of spells. I'd even be willing to overlook the comparatively weak creations if I had something a bit flashier than searer. Graphically, though, I see it as a pretty solid step above the old Avernums. That's probably a function of starting there, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Vampire: the Masquerade: Bloodlines is a great RPG, and has enough recognition and respect that it could get some initial people in the doors past vampire skepticism. (I've heard decent things about Redemption, too, but far less.) I'd argue the other way, too: Vampire would make a great massively multiplayer game, with one little problem: Vampire isn't really about killing dozens and dozens of enemies in a traditional MMORPG way, although Bloodlines devolves into that too. But paranoia and politicking without roleplaying just doesn't seem plausible, and roleplaying on MMOs seems like a non-starter. —Alorael, who still would one day like to see someone try something like the various MUDs and MUSHes with professional design and graphics, a scaled-up player base, and an attempt at, if not blockbuster status, then proof of mass-market roleplaying concept. Surely there are enough people who would like to roleplay and not be drowned out by mass slaughter and fetch quests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk ixfd64 Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 Don't forget Zynga's Vampire Wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Necris Omega Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Originally Posted By: Uninformed Advance Consent I'd argue the other way, too: Vampire would make a great massively multiplayer game, with one little problem: Vampire isn't really about killing dozens and dozens of enemies in a traditional MMORPG way, although Bloodlines devolves into that too. But paranoia and politicking without roleplaying just doesn't seem plausible, and roleplaying on MMOs seems like a non-starter. See, that's the thing, though: I don't see it as a LITTLE problem, I see it as a "completely destroys the concept and misses the point" problem. Maybe it will somehow be different then WoW, and maybe it WILL finally be able to blend heavily story based gameplay with the sprawing socialscape of an MMO... But optimism isn't my thing, and instead of spying for the Prince all the while fighting that creeping sensation in the back of your neck that EVERYTHING is a set up on top of a double cross put in motion by triple agents, it'll be little more than "Kill 12 random gang bangers and bring me their bandanas". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Aran Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Originally Posted By: ixfd64 So far, all of Spiderweb's games are fantasy/medieval-themed RPGs. However, Encyclopedia Ermariana mentions a major space battle that occurred in the Alxus star system. This gave me an idea: what if Jeff designed a space-based RPG? I think a deviation from the traditional medieval-themed games could bring in more customers. Thoughts? Re Alxus specifically: I don't know of Jeff ever canonizing any fanlore. I do know a few great space RPGs (depending on definition; for example I'd include the Escape Velocity series due to its backstory and dialogue). Space (mostly empty, filled with a number of distinct places to travel between, using some sort of FTL jump) represents a major switch in game mechanic compared to what SW does (a huge world for you to walk around in and explore, and everything within walking distance). But you don't actually have to portray space - it's possible to just walk around in city-sized space stations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Necris Omega: The "little" there was deliberate understatement. I agree; vampire isn't about fighting, especially, although it happens in most campaigns with great frequency. Bloodlines stood on the strength of its characters and creepiness and coolness. An MMO would have to be very creative to make that work. I'm not at all convinced it's fundamentally impossible, but it would require an overhaul of the MMORPG paradigm. Aran: Geneforge 3's island and boat system could be replaced by planets and spaceports, although hopefully a less clunky system would be used. Or the whole game could take place on a single distant planet with all the usual sci-fi trappings. Or the game could take Hyperion's point of view and have common, instantaneous interplanetary teleporters or Altered Carbon's system of transmitting minds as faster-than-light information. There are many options. —Alorael, who thinks EV is a great game (or rather, a great set of games) and only a mediocre RPG at best until EVN. Even then it doesn't shine because of its roleplaying, either in the mechanical sense or in the choices-consequences/plot sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Cairo Jim Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Originally Posted By: Polaran Originally Posted By: ixfd64 So far, all of Spiderweb's games are fantasy/medieval-themed RPGs. However, Encyclopedia Ermariana mentions a major space battle that occurred in the Alxus star system. This gave me an idea: what if Jeff designed a space-based RPG? I think a deviation from the traditional medieval-themed games could bring in more customers. Thoughts? I do know a few great space RPGs (depending on definition; for example I'd include the Escape Velocity series due to its backstory and dialogue). After thinking on how much of a cool idea this is, I totally forgot about EV. I don't know how, I've been playing it for years. Another good thing about it is that it's somewhat player expandable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dintiradan Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I've only played the EV:N demo, but I found that the game broke a lot of RPG conventions that exist for good reason. My biggest concern was how early you got locked into one of the plot threads, often without knowing what you're getting yourself into. The central aspect of the game, y'know, upgrading your ship and stuff like that? Naw, forget it. You're a slave now. Enjoy your Dart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The Vell-Os campaign lock-in was a bad idea, especially when before getting your dart you're stuck with whatever you had whether you like it or not. But the campaign itself is interesting, and the others instead give you new toys to add to your ship. —Alorael, who had more trouble with the fact that the end-game requires you to use inertialess ships. He likes inertia. He dislikes having to aim non-turret when he can't strafe so much as charge capital ships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I really like EV Nova, but I think it's biggest flaw is that a quest will send you to planet A, but arriving at planet A only has a certain chance of bringing up the next dialogue. I've sat for ten minutes sometimes repeatedly docking at a planet so I can get a new set of orders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Originally Posted By: Randomizer Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba ... and about as painful to play as well. Dikiyoba. Just because some players *cough*Dikiyoba*cough* are obsessive compulsive about collecting items and placing them in neat piles in cleared zones is no reason to consider it painful. I do exactly what you mentioned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I do that too, in just about all of Jeff's games. And I tend to forget what I've collected, as well as how much, and why. In games with limited amounts of cash, this has been known to lead to economic near-collapse when I go to sell it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Mistb0rn Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 You mean there are people who don't save everything in neat piles? What a world we live in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Originally Posted By: Mistb0rn You mean there are people who don't save everything in neat piles? For me the answer would be yes and no. Do I save everything? Yes. Is it in neat piles? Nope. Stacking stuff in neat piles is okay, as long as you don't overdo it, as in the following: Click to reveal.. When I was a young man, I once chanced to visit an Order Mage Tower. I swear to you, even the dust on the shelves was arranged in perfect stacks...gave me the shivers. (flavor text from the instruction manual for Lords of Magic: Special Edition) Now that's what I call obsessive-compulsive disorder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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