Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 It's not all that odd. (Says Kel.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dintiradan Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I can think of a number of friends who briefly met their future SO face-to-face, and then kept up an online correspondence which eventually turned into a romantic relationship. I can't think of any personal acquaintances whose first contact was online and who had a romantic relationship before meeting face-to-face, but I know they're out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 @Dintiradan: I find this an interesting way to do and think about things, both because it's so common (neither arranged marriages nor many long distance relationships could work without it), and yet largely alien to me. I find romantic/erotic love to be a necessarily physical endeavor, both in the obvious sexual sense, but also in the sense of cuddling, physical closeness, that general comfortable intimacy that couples develop. I can do long distance for a while (though I find it frustrating), but even that has to be predicated on prior in-person physical intimacy. I have friends who are entirely long distance, and I could see saying to such a friend "You seem really cool, would you like to go out sometime if we're in the same area?" but the 'turned into a romantic relationship' step would have to be in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Single, been taken three times. Not happy about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 the problem with being single is that its almost completely frowned upon by the rest of general society. Everyone in my family/friends line of people all tell me that ive got to get married. Why do i have to do that? Why cant i just be happy being me? Its as if people automatically assume that you are like this lone weirdo/artemis entreri or something like that. Heck, artemis entreri had better morals than most of these people. It doesnt make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Actaeon Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I am confused and impressed by people who spend their whole lives single. I couldn't do it, myself, but with world population topping seven billion people who don't plan on reproducing ought to be applauded. Every time I notice society doing its best to punish difference, I worry that I'm doing the same thing to someone else without realizing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 Originally Posted By: Actaeon I am confused and impressed by people who spend their whole lives single. I couldn't do it, myself, but with world population topping seven billion people who don't plan on reproducing ought to be applauded. Every time I notice society doing its best to punish difference, I worry that I'm doing the same thing to someone else without realizing it. You don't have to be single to not reproduce. There are plenty of couples who opt not to breed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Actaeon Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Yes, but it helps. (You can also breed and yet remain single.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Originally Posted By: Death Knight Its as if people automatically assume that you are like this lone weirdo/artemis entreri or something like that. Heck, artemis entreri had better morals than most of these people. It doesnt make sense. It does make sense, but only when you consider the fact that you're casually dropping metaphors from DnD novels to explain your single-ness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 The thing about being single is that it's ironically very difficult to do alone. If all of your friends and peers become focused on families, eventually children become the points around which everyone else's lives revolve, and you're left out of the orbits. As more people remain single, and as more couples remain childless, it becomes easier to have a fun, full social life: the world and social spheres adapt to it. —Alorael, who doesn't think first world couples with generally below replacement birthrates are the population problem. Resource problem, maybe, but not population problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Originally Posted By: Actaeon I am confused and impressed by people who spend their whole lives single. I couldn't do it, myself, but with world population topping seven billion people who don't plan on reproducing ought to be applauded. And Dikiyoba is baffled by people who want to be in a relationship (or relationships, for the polyamorous people out there) and also baffled by people who want to have childen (whether adopted or biological), but Dikiyoba is not compelled to have opinions about all of them. People have different wants and should be allowed to make their own choices without having to deal with obnoxious comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Xaiya Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Originally Posted By: Actaeon I am confused and impressed by people who spend their whole lives single. I couldn't do it, myself, but with world population topping seven billion people who don't plan on reproducing ought to be applauded. It'd be nice if some 1st world countries could afford to invest into 3rd world countries more and more efficiently. As in, introducing birth control and decent public education. Education leads to increased output and a higher standard of living, and regulation in key areas supports it. Then, coupled with regulation of people having children, the population could eventually be decreased to a lower reasonable number of around 1 billion. Of course, this probably will not occur and will take a disaster to wipe the population down to sustainable levels. We still have yet to find the optimal set up to allow only the intelligent people to lead and so are left with one-sided idiots who additionally cannot see beyond short-term. Corporations, many in government, most voters, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Actaeon Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba Originally Posted By: Actaeon I am confused and impressed by people who spend their whole lives single. I couldn't do it, myself, but with world population topping seven billion people who don't plan on reproducing ought to be applauded. And Dikiyoba is baffled by people who want to be in a relationship (or relationships, for the polyamorous people out there) and also baffled by people who want to have childen (whether adopted or biological), but Dikiyoba is not compelled to have opinions about all of them. People have different wants and should be allowed to make their own choices without having to deal with obnoxious comments. My apologies if you felt my comment was obnoxious. No offense or judgement meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dintiradan Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: Alorael The thing about being single is that it's ironically very difficult to do alone. If all of your friends and peers become focused on families, eventually children become the points around which everyone else's lives revolve, and you're left out of the orbits. At least kids are fun, and conversations about kids are interesting. The period when everyone I knew was buying their first house was preeeeetty boring. Population control, etc.: Not my area of expertise, but a smaller growth rate seems to be a side-effect of developed nations, rather than a prerequisite. Investing in health and, yes, education seems to be more effective. Hans Rosling has some good talks on this, but I admit I'm more interested in how he presents his data rather than the data itself. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Quote: At least kids are fun, and conversations about kids are interesting. The period when everyone I knew was buying their first house was preeeeetty boring. God, to hear you and Alorael talk about it, I just can't wait to be a thirtysomething. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dintiradan Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'm a twentysomething. :-p (Though for what it's worth, most of my meatspace friends are older than I am.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Frozen Feet Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: Soul of Wit Originally Posted By: Frozen Feet ... Or well, it would be down to three, if one of my long-distance acquitances hadn't expressed the desire to see me in romantic circumstances. Life is being weird to me right now. If I'm reading that correctly, starting a long-distance relationship--from a distance--would be odd. Most people carry the pre-existing short to the long. No, what's odd is that someone who knows I'm seeing three other women expresses desire to date me, practically on the instant I get rejected by one of my previous dates and am still picking up pieces of my self-esteem from the floor. Long-distance romances, though? Nothing odd there. My first date lived in the next big town, 50 kilometers away, and the girl who doesn't want to see me anymore just finished moving 100 kilometers away from here. Though as far as LDRs are concerned, those distances aren't actually very long. At least we were still in the same country and continent; one of my friends in USA got together with a Norwegian girl (Male to female transgender, to boot) he got acquianted with online, and he's now thinking of moving to Norway to live with her and marrying her. That's the unlikeliest match-up I've seen in my life so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: Othar Trygvassen: Gentleman God, to hear you and Alorael talk about it, I just can't wait to be a thirtysomething. You can have some friends drift to the outer edges of your social circle because children eat their lives, or you can lose your social life to your own children. Your choice! —Alorael, who personally knows one relationship that's US coast-to-coast, unmarried, and has survived that way for almost a year. Still, he'd say his median survival for long distance relationships not deliberately broken off before separation is under six months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: Modified Extruded Ectoplasm You can have some friends drift to the outer edges of your social circle because children eat their lives, or you can lose your social life to your own children. Your choice! bonus dilemma-breaking third option: find a way to secretly sterilize your friends also, frame them for crimes severe enough that they won't be able to adopt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dintiradan Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 It's a difficult balancing act, let me tell you. Make it serious enough, but not so serious that it sends them to prison, 'cause that defeats the whole purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 If that happens one could always commit a crime and (hopefully) get sentenced to the same prison. Then you and your friends can enjoy free healthcare and whatnot together! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Soul of Wit Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Just when I thought the thread was going to drift to politics/world view... ...dark humor. On topic, the internet has certainly made long-distance relationships more likely. They're easier to start and they're easier to maintain with video chat and other technology. I would assume that most hook-up sites are geared towards reasonable proximity for any matches. Would some people actively choose to match with someone farther away, perhaps out of fear of intimacy or a subconscious desire to undermine any potential relationship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Actaeon Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: Actaeon Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba Originally Posted By: Actaeon I am confused and impressed by people who spend their whole lives single. I couldn't do it, myself, but with world population topping seven billion people who don't plan on reproducing ought to be applauded. And Dikiyoba is baffled by people who want to be in a relationship (or relationships, for the polyamorous people out there) and also baffled by people who want to have childen (whether adopted or biological), but Dikiyoba is not compelled to have opinions about all of them. People have different wants and should be allowed to make their own choices without having to deal with obnoxious comments. My apologies if you felt my comment was obnoxious. No offense or judgement meant. I spent all last night tossing and turning over this. As I said in my previous post, I have no desire to castigate any group that isn't actively detrimental to others (murderers, rapists, etc). However, I cannot help being intrigued and, occasionally baffled by people with different ideas. Occasionally, as in this case, I am even envious. I am aware that our population problem does not come from the third world (though, as discussed, our resource problem probably does). Nevertheless, I am wracked with guilt at my desire to couple and reproduce. I comfort myself by recognizing the tendency of nearly every other animal (except perhaps a few endangered pandas) to do so, as well. When other humans prove their ability to bypass that, I lose my justification. When I ask those people to teach me how, they look at me like I'm crazy and get offended. I don't withdraw my apology. I simply felt like clarifying before I take my leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I would imagine that few people have Malthusian ideas in consideration when they choose not to procreate (and some of us might even reject Malthusian ideas!), or even have relationships at all. Some people are asexual, but most people who live like that have a sex drive just like everyone else. I think you're taking the wrong approach with how you're looking at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Quote: Would some people actively choose to match with someone farther away, perhaps out of fear of intimacy or a subconscious desire to undermine any potential relationship? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: Excalibur Some people are asexual, but most people who live like that have a sex drive just like everyone else. Asexual ≠ no sex drive. Asexual people have no/negligible sexual attraction to others. Originally Posted By: Actaeon I spent all last night tossing and turning over this. Thank you for your apology (although I certainly didn't want you to lose any sleep over this discussion). Quote: Nevertheless, I am wracked with guilt at my desire to couple and reproduce. I comfort myself by recognizing the tendency of nearly every other animal (except perhaps a few endangered pandas) to do so, as well. When other humans prove their ability to bypass that, I lose my justification. When I ask those people to teach me how, they look at me like I'm crazy and get offended. There's no reason not to search for a relationship and have children. The future can be bright even with a high population, and it can also be grim even with a low population. Making yourself miserable by remaining single isn't going to do much to bring about a bright future. (Besides, it's really silly to be envious of people who want to be single and/or childless. It's like being envious of plants because they produce their own energy and don't feel the need to eat. Different strokes and all that.) Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Actaeon Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I AM envious of plants for that very reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Cairo Jim Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Originally Posted By: Actaeon I AM envious of plants for that very reason. Think of all the delicious food you'd be missing out on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Soul of Wit Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Originally Posted By: Cairo Jim Originally Posted By: Actaeon I AM envious of plants for that very reason. Think of all the delicious food you'd be missing out on. You got something against photosynthesis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Cairo Jim Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Oh yeah. So boring. I bet it doesn't even taste good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 me: So how does that beam of sunlight taste? plant: Pretty bland, actually. Could you pass the salt, please? Then again, if I remember correctly, under the right conditions, the human body can use sunlight to photosynthesize vitamin D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The plants are more likely to ask you to pass the nitrates. Photosynthesis isn't quite the right way to look at vitamin D, Photosynthesis involves the use of energy from mostly visible spectrum light to build glucose out of carbon dioxide and water, a synthesis of one molecule out of many pieces. We use UV just to rearrange bonds in a sterol (actually very similar to cholesterol, and easily interconverted) to form vitamin D3. —Alorael, who believes solar absorption is the major source of vitamin D for anyone not deliberately an hugely supplementing with synthetic dietary sources. That's one of the reasons vitamin D deficiency is so common: people don't spend as much time outside as was true during most of human history, and when they do they're more covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Well, I used "photosynthesis" because I lacked better terminology; biology isn't exactly my strong point. And the "pass the salt" thing was meant as tongue-in-cheek humor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Tyranicus Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Originally Posted By: The Mystic Well, I used "photosynthesis" because I lacked better terminology; biology isn't exactly my strong point. And the "pass the salt" thing was meant as tongue-in-cheek humor. You should know by now that, in this community, if there is an opportunity for pedantry, someone will take advantage of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 *looks up the word "pedantry"* Good point; I seem to have momentarily forgotten that. Also, I think my sense of humor is getting a bit stranger as time passes. Whether this is true or not, I can't tell for sure, and really don't want to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Soul of Wit Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Originally Posted By: The Mystic *looks up the word "pedantry"* Okay, that made me laugh. I appreciate learning new things in these forums. Pedantry is standard practice in many forums, and you have to have a sense of humor (thick skin wouldn't hurt.) It is true that those of us not living in the tropics or subtropics are at ever-greater risk for vitamin D deficiency. We might never notice the effects of a minor deficiency, but a major deficiency has a laundry list of potential symptoms. It's not just rickets; trust me. Your immune system can be affected. You can suffer from chronic fatigue. Misdiagnoses are common. Doctors are quick to dole out anti-depressants, instead of looking for other reasons for sleeping too many hours. My experience is that a vitamin D level is not a standard blood test. The trick to getting a healthy dose of sun is simple. Get outside, outside of the peak UV hours. No hat, scarf or gloves--you need some bare skin, even in Winter. The time period is tough to judge. Fair skin absorbs UV quicker. A few minutes may be enough. Someone with darker skin will need longer. Go out with little to no sunscreen (no SPF above single digits.) I'm pretty sure that SPF is not a universal standard on sunscreens. Would someone please be a dear and engage in pedantry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Actaeon Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 OR you could move to higher altitude. Sure, duration is more important than severity and you'll probably just get a sunburn for your pains, but it's cheaper than buying supplements, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall The Ratt Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 OMG u r trying to get me CANCER!!!1! Where are you getting these facts? Also, are you adjusting for elevation? Edit: Sniped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Dikiyoba thought adequate vitamin D was fairly easy to come by just because so many diary products (and other foods?) have vitamin D was added to them. Is that wrong? Or a holdover from when people spent more time outside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Tyranicus Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba Dikiyoba thought adequate vitamin D was fairly easy to come by just because so many diary products (and other foods?) have vitamin D was added to them. Is that wrong? Or a holdover from when people spent more time outside? Milk often has vitamin D added to it, but many people do not consume a lot of milk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Actaeon Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 D is fat soluble, meaning that it has a lower toxicity threshold than, say, C. However, if you don't get outside much and your diet is low in vitamins , you might consider taking supplements this time of year (fish and liver are both good, too). Some people, including several health professionals I've spoken with, link vitamin D deficiency with seasonal affective disorder (though I think the shorter days and lack of growing things do just fine on their own). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba Dikiyoba thought adequate vitamin D was fairly easy to come by just because so many diary products (and other foods?) have vitamin D was added to them. Is that wrong? Or a holdover from when people spent more time outside? Quote: diary products i know many of us here at sw are bookworms but that doesn't mean we literally eat books Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Actaeon Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Speak for yourself. I'm half goat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 which half Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Actaeon Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Digestive, circulatory, limbic, and vestibular systems. (You'd think the last would be the least problematic, but it makes bipedal locomotion a pain.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Originally Posted By: Tyranicus ...but many people do not consume a lot of milk. Point. (Vitamin D is added to some types of yogurt too, but if people aren't drinking milk, they probably aren't eating yogurt either.) Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 It's added to less yogurt. Also, fat-soluble and water-soluble are only slightly related to toxicity. You can build up slow poisoning of fat-soluble vitamins sometimes, but in practice even heavy supplementation of vitamin D is unlikely to cause harm. For comparison, supplementation is generally around 1000 IUs per day. The FDA's upper limit recommendation is 4000 IUs, and in actual studies doses up to 15000 IUs weren't found to be harmful over several years, if I remember the research right. Cyanide's very soluble, and it'll kill you pretty fast! But it's not, technically speaking, a vitamin. —Alorael, also isn't sure how much is in supplemented foods. You need quite a bit to overcome deficiency. Actually, if you're deficient you have to take in more than the recommended daily intake to effectively get the recommended daily intake. See? This stuff's easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Quote: —Alorael, also isn't sure how much is in supplemented foods. You need quite a bit to overcome deficiency. I am mostly thinking about the amount needed to avoid vitamin D deficiency, given Soul of Wit's initial claim. A quick search for US foods brings up: Orange juice, fortified, 1 cup: 137 IUs Milk, fortified, 1 cup: 100-124 IUs Yogurt, fortified, 6 ounces: 80 IUs Breakfast cereal, fortified, 0.75-1 cup: 40 IUs (Source) Dikiyoba has no idea what or whether foods in other countries are fortified and will leave it for people in those countries to discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Soul of Wit Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 The daily need appears to be 600 IUs (infants less, seniors more and no change for pregnancy.) Being covered up in the Winter can make this tougher to hit. Fear of skin cancer is one of the reasons that vitamin D deficiency is now more common. I'm very fair skinned, but I have to make sure that I'm not always under a hat and lathered with a half-inch layer of zinc oxide. You can get plenty of the D without going out during peak UV hours. Elevation is another factor, but the mountain folk know that. They are wise in that way. Dairy consumption affects both seasonal allergies and lactose intolerance. You can get orange juice with both calcium and D added. Most seafood has a decent dose. Over the counter supplements are also available. Someone with a severe deficiency will temporarily need a huge dose (50,000 IU) by prescription. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Someone with non-severe deficiency doesn't need that much, but it requires regular supplementation of 1000 IUs or more to raise vitamin D levels out of deficient ranges even though 600-800 IUs is thought to be enough for maintaining healthy levels. The reasons aren't entirely clear, from what I understand. —Alorael, who maintains that getting even 600 IUs from fortified foods is hard unless you're deliberately increasing your dairy and orange juice intake for that purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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