A-EftP - What happens if I use 4/5 Brooches?

[VCH]

What happens if I use 4/5 brooches to reach the surface. I assume my group is teleported to a less than ideal location with lots of fun things to fight.

 

If that's the case, how do I remove the 5th brooch from my special item list?

 

 

I'm at level 31, so the whole gaining lvls thing is pretty irrelevant; I'd rather have this last mission be as hard as possible.

[Lilith]

The same thing as what happens with 5 brooches, except that you can't teleport back after assassinating Hawthorne, so you get autokilled by guards. At least, assuming it hasn't been changed since the previous iteration of the game.

[Jerakeen]

I'd say a suicide mission is as hard as possible, so yeah, go for it.

 

Of course, there's no way to remove it from your special items without editing scripts.

[VCH]

So does Erika warn you that 4 isn't enough to return?

[Lilith]

She warns you that it might not work properly. Exactly how it fails to work properly is left as a fun surprise.

[Superba]

I wonder what if you save the game when in Emperor palace and you didn't save the game in previous Avernum locations... would it then be impossible to get back to look for the fifth brooch? Game over?

[Slawbug]

Yes, then you'd be stuck unless you used a cheat.

[VCH]

Anyone have the dialogue for the auto-kill after assassinating Hawthorne? That must be amusing.

[Demseinwetter]

After spending so much time with my party I would have welcomed it to struggle them to death myself, fending off wave after wave of Empire soldiers, until after a few minutes, I'd just be drowned in guards.

That would have felt more heroic, than just reading about it. Using all equipment and spell points until there's nothing left and dying heroically instead of just reading about it.

 

Anyone feel the same?

 

PS: I also suggest that some text announces that you're not going to walk out of the throne room alive, so as to make sure, people don't feel frustrated. I just feel, that playing it, would have made for a more martyrical end.

[Ceiling Durkheim]

@Demseinwetter: This seems to be a polarizing issue. I recall a couple people complaining quite vocally about the opposite in Avadon: getting swarmed with guards rather than auto-killed when one tries to charge head on into Castle Vebeaux, instead of sneaking in.

 

This isn't to say you're wrong, just that whatever way it went, someone would preferred the other way.

[Superba]

I don't like the autokill of the Hall if you go back after you slay the Emperor. It seems to me an illogical consequence, as I wrote in a different thread.

First you are hurried with in game messages to be quick and reach the Emperor, second the same foes regenerate close to a closed gate to make you better understand the warning. But, third if you do hurry up and don't loot royal chambers, when you go back to corridors you get default autokill, and adieu treasure.

I'm sorry to say this, however I believe this peculiar autokill doesn't match at all with previous indications.

 

I have nothing against the 4 brooches autokill, you are warned something could go wrong without the fifth brooch and, even if the autokill is unexpected, you are the only one to blame for being lazy.

 

In Avadon it is a lack of information which determines a mistake, that is to believe there's no other way to enter the castle, but there is and it is a significant part of the game.

 

I wouldn't consider the three situations so similar, they are different, peculiar and regulated by some different logic (or not) to me, as I wouldn't say the autokill is just a matter of preferences.

[Jerakeen]

If it makes you feel better, you didn't miss much in the royal chambers.

[Ceiling Durkheim]

There are some nice consumable items, but they're mostly to refresh your inventory in what is arguably the game's hardest dungeon. There's very little in the way of equipment or other long-term goodies.

[VCH]

There's an invulnerability potion in Hawthorne's room. I bet he wished he'd brought it with him.

[nikki.]

Originally Posted By: VCH

There's an invulnerability potion in Hawthorne's room. I bet he wished he'd brought it with him.

It'd have only bought him a few more rounds before the inevitable. I bet he really wishes he'd taken that trip to Valorim Garzahd was always pestering him about.

[Ceiling Durkheim]

@VCH: Given that he spends ~95% of the fight completely immune to damage (as opposed to invulnerable, which just drastically reduces damage), I don't think invulnerability is his problem.

[VCH]

Well, it was actually an elixir, not a potion. So he would get a lot of extra rounds, which might have been enough for the guards to flood into the room, or for him to get to the secret exit which we all know is there somewhere.

[Firecage]

Well, even a few extra rounds might have been enough for the guards to swarm the throne room and kill you

[Ceiling Durkheim]

Maybe, maybe not. Keep in mind that Hawthorne's base defense is absolutely nothing, and he only has ~500 HP: you're pretty much guaranteed to kill him in a couple hits. Not to mention that the majority of his offense (the four golems) is gone by this time. Killing him before he escapes might be an interesting additional challenge, but he wasn't programmed to stand up to punishment, even with greatly improved defense.

[VCH]

Yes, but that outcome is dependant on your party being positioned so they can kill him immediately after his wards go down. And also, I thought the golems were indestructible until his ward goes down. If that's the case you would have to deal with them too.

[Gon]

The moment of "I come to you in the name of Avernum" when you advance upon the Emperor was a true RPG moment.

 

For the battle, it should have somehow been harder approach Hawthorne when you see him instead of an energy field around him which was a simpler problem to set but made for a tough but not so interesting solution and didn't quite fit in with what had proceeded prior to that, and the fact that Hawthorne was no warrior or mage, as the game states. Maybe a final royal elite of guards instead of golems in the throne room that you had to defeat first before you could actually attack him directly.

 

I fully agree with the aforesaid; this mission should have been the final mission of no return, despite Erika's best efforts to bring you back, with the other two great quests (G'Hoth and Exit) being optional. When you are going up the steps, you are nervous that if you don't find Hawthorne in there, "your deaths will have been in vain." You know you are going to die. My preferred ending of the two, and it would have made much more sense and also for legend telling in the next two games that this one desperate, surprise gambit by a few ill equipped rebels to strike into the very heart of the all powerful Empire, although a one in a million chance successful, will end with the warriors martyred after infinite waves of Empire elite troops flooding them.

[Ociporus]

Originally Posted By: Gon

...this mission should have been the final mission of no return, despite Erika's best efforts to bring you back, with the other two great quests (G'Hoth and Exit) being optional. When you are going up the steps, you are nervous that if you don't find Hawthorne in there, "your deaths will have been in vain." You know you are going to die...

Since Erika got you there in the first place, makes sense she could get you back.