A-EftP - Stuck in game, need stat advice

[Death Knight]

I wanted to give this game a second shot, being that i paid for it and couldnt get into it last time. I set up a party of 3 people. An archer/mage, an archer, and a fighter/archer.

 

The builds work fine. I use first aid for healing from my archer, my archer/mage casts haste and curses. All except my fighter/archer hybrid. I started out doing 1 to strength every level with 1 to dexterity every 3 levels, but it doesnt work. Im not really sure what im doing is wrong, but i dont know which to specialize more in, fighting or ranged. I dont use parry as dex takes care of that. Can someone help me out with stats and or at least give me some points on which is better to specialize in. As it stands now, its frustrating compared to previous avernums where i could do both much easier.

[Jerakeen]

I think the consensus so far is that multi-class characters are doomed to be sub-optimal in this game. You can probably do it, but expect it to be frustrating.

 

Relying on Dex for damage avoidance only works if you go all in, and get Gymnastics too. Which would seriously gimp a melee fighter. You'd be better off making at least one character straight melee with nothing but Strength and a little Endurance. You'll still get a decent chance to hit with missiles, as long as you don't load up on too much heavy armor.

[Randomizer]

A mage doesn't need archer skill since all spells can do range attacks. The only reason is to get gymnastics skill for extra action points and to dodge attacks.

 

This doesn't work as well at harder difficulties than normal.

[Death Knight]

Thats not very good news for me, as making finesse melee fighters was fun in avernum 4. Im a little confused at how this has made very little combinations. The battle disciplines were actually done well as i have noticed that bows get their own as melee gets their own, unlike in 5 and 6. Still..this avadon system is very problematic with making unique characters.

 

I used to be able to get gymanstics, resistance, hardiness, and quick action with any character class. Now, anatomy has been removed (one of the coolest skills), and there are 4 set classes to make total-Dualwield, parry/riposte, ranged and magic. Unlike the 2nd trilogy and even 1st original trilogy where there were more combinations. I dont know, these new changes may have worked for avadon but in this series Im very doubtful. Ill have to find something to make this work.

[Death Knight]

Well, after searching a bit i might have found a way to offset the lack of points in dex. Turns out that placing points with 1 to strength every level with 1 to dex every 3rd level is ok. Now on top of that, if i add to the 5 class of perks that give dex every 5 levels, that will not only offset the lack of points to dex, but it might actually make dualclassing optimal. Im going to give it a try and who knows, this might actually work for fighter/mages and ranged/mages.

[VCH]

Sometimes I wonder if people actually care about stat points. Then I read something like this and know they do. Myself, if there was a recommended button to click, I would click it. I play these games to kill things and read, not to fiddle with stats and points and other snooze worthy stuff.

 

That being said, if you're into the whole building thing, that's cool too.

[Spidweb]

Maybe try a party with 4 characters?

 

- Jeff Vogel

[Death Knight]

Originally Posted By: Spidweb

Maybe try a party with 4 characters?

- Jeff Vogel

I thought of that, but the smaller the party the less confusing. Plus ive been spoiled by avadon's 3 person party.

[Alorael at Large]

Fine, but then accept that you're choosing a difficult party arrangement. Fewer characters means more difficulty.

 

—Alorael, who also wouldn't try to think about builds that worked in the original trilogy or the second trilogy. The stats look the same, but they're not, and you can be led down some very difficult build paths.

[Fael]

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

A mage doesn't need archer skill since all spells can do range attacks. The only reason is to get gymnastics skill for extra action points and to dodge attacks.

A mage doesn't need archer skill if you're using cheat codes or have lots of patience for going back to town every 5 minutes.

Otherwise, archer skill is useful for giving the mage something to do in those fights that aren't work wasting spell points on. This is, of course, suboptimal for the major combats, since you're taking skill points away from abilities that you'll use in the hardest fights and spending them on things that are completely useless in those fights, but that make the game as a whole less annoying.

[Jerakeen]

Actually, my casters can plink away quite effectively (on Normal) with no skill points invested at all. They often have a 95% to-hit against mooks. Admittedly they don't do a lot of damage, but if you're just mopping up it can be the little bit that you need.

[Lilith]

I found that my priest was running out of spell points much, much faster than my mage, even with the mage casting Bolt of Fire every turn, so I didn't see much reason to invest in the mage's bow skills. That's on Torment, though; on lower difficulties you probably won't need to heal so frequently.

[Randomizer]

Priest spells tend to use more spell energy than mage spells.

 

mage firebolt - 1

priest smite - 3

[Soul of Wit]

Originally Posted By: Death Knight

Originally Posted By: Spidweb

Maybe try a party with 4 characters?

- Jeff Vogel

I thought of that, but the smaller the party the less confusing. Plus ive been spoiled by avadon's 3 person party.

A 4 PC party can be quite simple. I ran two DW melee, a Mage and a Priest. Sell all pole arms. Give the shields to the magic types. The lead meat shield concentrates a little more on Parry, to fend off the nastier outdoor encounters. His second is a backstabber.

[Necris Omega]

Avernum's been a 4 party standard since... Well literally Avernum's existed. I honestly don't think I'd want any fewer characters, less I miss out on a potentially fun build.

 

Some days I actually miss Exile's 6 person party for all the room it gave you to mess around with builds n' stuff. Even if your dual mace wielding nephil archer wasn't the Smashy Legolas you'd hoped, you've two other melee characters to fall back on.

[Superba]

@ Necris Omega: there is a difference in game speed with less characters in the party. I am trying a (full cheated) singleton on Normal right now; in a few hours he accomplished missions the regular party would need two days.

The four characters party maybe reach the aim to let the player use most of the items and better understand the game in its complexity. A good point, I believe. On the other hand I don't know about Exile, but in Avadon a singleton looses all significant dialogues, where AEFTP has no party dialogues. A point for smaller characters parties in Avernum, I presume.

[Necris Omega]

Hm.

 

What do you mean by "(full cheated)"?

[Superba]

I mean a character with very high edited attack/defense stats and spells levels from the beginning AND uses cheat codes. My singleton is a berserker which only need blades to kill a foe and Divine Retribution to kill groups. It's quick. I mean, I already have played several playthroughs with traditional parties, and one of those was "full cheated" as well, so I believe I can tell the difference is speed... and more fun.

[Death Knight]

Originally Posted By: Cutting for Paper with Scissors

Fine, but then accept that you're choosing a difficult party arrangement. Fewer characters means more difficulty.

—Alorael, who also wouldn't try to think about builds that worked in the original trilogy or the second trilogy. The stats look the same, but they're not, and you can be led down some very difficult build paths.

\


I actually took jeff's advice along with yours and made a different 4 person party. 2 priests, 1 mage, 1 fighter. Its been really fun and i can actually kill things for a change. I guess more magic users and less fighters works for me.

[corallus]

Why 2 priests ? There are many classses to choose from..various fighters, and magic types..as well as custom characters.. plenty of variation..

[Jerakeen]

Having two priests actually makes good sense. They have great offensive and defensive capabilites, and it's always preferable to have more than one character who can Unshackle Mind.

 

Edit: and there really are only 4 classes, despite the menu that you get at startup.

[Soul of Wit]

In addition to the traditional healing and righteous attack roles, a Priest has no restrictions on armor. It can act as a meat shield, too. As Jerakeen points out, the Priest is the ideal defense against mind control. There are enough mental-boost items in the game to hit the anti-mental cap (90% ?) with two PCs. Making those two PCs Priests would allow them both to help out the more cerebrally-challenged party members.

[Randomizer]

Besides even at the 90% cap it's easy to have two characters both get mental effects that keep them out of combat. But having two priests helps if only one gets hit.

 

Adze-Haakai's terror area effect is where it happened to me. The dumb fighters both resisted.

[VCH]

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

Besides even at the 90% cap it's easy to have two characters both get mental effects that keep them out of combat. But having two priests helps if only one gets hit.

Adze-Haakai's terror area effect is where it happened to me. The dumb fighters both resisted.

I just sat my mage back and spammed him with arcane blow, while my priest healed and unshackled a fighters mind. That fighter would then charge back at the demon and immediately get scared and run away. I found demon-slayer next to useless in this fight.